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2013 NHL Entry Draft Discussion


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#541 number9

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:13 AM

We selected a big-bodied sniper and multiple grinder/aggitator types. Along with a pair of big nasty defensive dmen.

These are the kind of pieces you add when preparing for a cup run. First you have to have your core of solid G and talented Fs and Ds. Then you add a few gritty and sizeable players and boom your a cup contending team.

If Holland is adding physicality and grit, he must think we're like 3 or 4 years from a serious cup run. It also means he's probably happy with the level of skill on the big club and farm already.

Of course I'm completely speculating

Plus dont forget the 2 Swedish sleepers

#542 Dabura

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:17 AM

We selected a big-bodied sniper and multiple grinder/aggitator types. Along with a pair of big nasty defensive dmen.

These are the kind of pieces you add when preparing for a cup run. First you have to have your core of solid G and talented Fs and Ds. Then you add a few gritty and sizeable players and boom your a cup contending team.

If Holland is adding physicality and grit, he must think we're like 3 or 4 years from a serious cup run. It also means he's probably happy with the level of skill on the big club and farm already.

Of course I'm completely speculating

Plus dont forget the 2 Swedish sleepers

 

Or we just really, really need to get bigger, stronger. ;)


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#543 number9

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:23 AM

 
Or we just really, really need to get bigger, stronger. ;)


Well that's pretty much what I'm saying. I always understood the formula was lock down your talented core and then put size and strength around them to compliment them

#544 Nev

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:48 AM

I think the thing is, we've spent the last few years drafting "value" in the mid rounds.  Value equates to smaller, skilled players.  Now we've got a prospect pipeline that's overflowing with smaller, skilled players, so drafting even more smaller, skilled players makes no sense.

 

For one year, to focus on size + grit is OK, in the future we can go for a more balanced draft.  Right now all we've done is given ourselves a more rounded prospect pool.

 

But one thing to bear in mind guys, chances are that no more than 2 of those 8 players make it to the NHL.  If just 3 make it, that would be an amazing draft.  Most of these guys are going to end up on the scrapheap.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#545 evilmrt

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:00 PM

I think the thing is, we've spent the last few years drafting "value" in the mid rounds.  Value equates to smaller, skilled players.  Now we've got a prospect pipeline that's overflowing with smaller, skilled players, so drafting even more smaller, skilled players makes no sense.
 
For one year, to focus on size + grit is OK, in the future we can go for a more balanced draft.  Right now all we've done is given ourselves a more rounded prospect pool.
 
But one thing to bear in mind guys, chances are that no more than 2 of those 8 players make it to the NHL.  If just 3 make it, that would be an amazing draft.  Most of these guys are going to end up on the scrapheap.


I think it depends on them being able to keep the "farmers" in place, specifically Blashill. Right now, I think he might have a better conversion rate than is traditional. We'll see.



#546 Nev

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:18 PM

We've been having a conversion rate way better than the league average going back 15 years.  That's to do with how we scout, draft and develop players.  Blashill did a great job last year, but he also had a team loaded with good young players, the best crop of prospects we've had since the early-mid 2000s.

 

BTW, loved this little quote on Hampus Melen from Hakan Andersson

 

 

Works hard and has very good hands and hockey sense, but needs to beef up a lot,'' Andersson said. “Good thing about that is I met him a couple of times in February and we talked about nutrition. He hired a personal trainer and the last two months he's gone from 147 to 160. The parents told his agent, 'Something has happened to Hampus.' It looks like he's on a mission. He's so much determined.''

 

So bascially, it looks like Andersson went to speak to him 4-5 months ago, told him the Wings were interested in drafting him, and he went and got his **** together, really lit a fire under his ass.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#547 Shaman

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:20 PM

 

The Big Losers:   We do it in Countdown Style here.

 

5) Detroit Red Wings:  The trade down and pick of Anthony Mantha was brilliant, and I thought the Wings were on their way to another great draft. But it all fell apart after that.  Zach Nastasiuk was a good pick, but I think the Wings took him too high.  Still the worst mistake was Tyler Bertuzzi at 58, a real head scratcher of a pick.  Made us ask, what they are thinking.  The rest of their draft is uninspiring.  People will give the Wings the benefit of the doubt based on their draft history, but the fact is that the wings have not drafted a single player who is a Top 6 forward, Top 4 Defenceman, or #1 Goalie currently in the NHL, since the 2004 Draft.

 

http://lastwordonspo...stant-analysis/

 

Pretty much my feelings on the Wings draft this year.


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
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In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#548 The Axe

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:42 PM

 
http://lastwordonspo...stant-analysis/
 
Pretty much my feelings on the Wings draft this year.


Only problem with this is ghat they've drafted 2 (Nyquist and Tatar) that would play top 6 on a lot of other teams, they've drafted defensemen (Quincey, Smith, Kindl) that would play top 4 on almost every other team, and they always pick in crappy position due to the team's overall success. Does this guy really expect our top 6 to be filled with #24 to #30 picks like the ones we usually have each year? It's a flawed argument.

#549 Shaman

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:59 PM

Only problem with this is ghat they've drafted 2 (Nyquist and Tatar) that would play top 6 on a lot of other teams, they've drafted defensemen (Quincey, Smith, Kindl) that would play top 4 on almost every other team, and they always pick in crappy position due to the team's overall success. Does this guy really expect our top 6 to be filled with #24 to #30 picks like the ones we usually have each year? It's a flawed argument.

The issue is that the Wings reached their 2 #2 picks and got one player that could be something, and one player that if he makes it in to the AHL his career will be a success.


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#550 barabbas16

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 04:53 PM

The issue is that the Wings reached their 2 #2 picks and got one player that could be something, and one player that if he makes it in to the AHL his career will be a success.

 

Not everyone agrees with you....

 

ESPN’s Grant Sonier : B+. “Anthony Mantha was the only 50-goal scorer in the draft and the Wings will bring this talented winger along slowly, as is their M.O. If everything comes together with his maturity and a willingness to play hard consistently, he could be a big-time goal scorer in Motown. I liked their second-round picks as well. Zach Nastasiuk from Owen Sound of the OHL adds size and work ethic and Tyler Bertuzzi was an honorable mention on my top 50. He is as gritty a player there was on the board and in time will do whatever it takes to make the Wings.”

 

Sports Illustrated’s Allan Muir: B. “They picked up the Q’s only 50-goal scorer in Anthony Mantha (20). He needs to work on his consistency and battle levels, but you can’t teach hands like his. Zach Nastasiuk (48) was a fast riser heading into the draft. He’s one of those kids who does all the little things right. His grit and work ethic will make him a reliable bottom-six guy. Tyler Bertuzzi (58) is meaner than his uncle Todd. He’s as good an agitator as could be had in this draft.”



#551 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:03 PM

Melencoly and the infinite Hampus.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#552 Shaman

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:14 PM

 

Not everyone agrees with you....

 

ESPN’s Grant Sonier : B+. “Anthony Mantha was the only 50-goal scorer in the draft and the Wings will bring this talented winger along slowly, as is their M.O. If everything comes together with his maturity and a willingness to play hard consistently, he could be a big-time goal scorer in Motown. I liked their second-round picks as well. Zach Nastasiuk from Owen Sound of the OHL adds size and work ethic and Tyler Bertuzzi was an honorable mention on my top 50. He is as gritty a player there was on the board and in time will do whatever it takes to make the Wings.”

 

Sports Illustrated’s Allan Muir: B. “They picked up the Q’s only 50-goal scorer in Anthony Mantha (20). He needs to work on his consistency and battle levels, but you can’t teach hands like his. Zach Nastasiuk (48) was a fast riser heading into the draft. He’s one of those kids who does all the little things right. His grit and work ethic will make him a reliable bottom-six guy. Tyler Bertuzzi (58) is meaner than his uncle Todd. He’s as good an agitator as could be had in this draft.”

So you pick the two groups who know nothing about hockey.


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#553 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:36 PM

I find it odd that they were comfortable trading back a couple spots to still get their guy (Mantha), but didn't wait it out to get Bertuzzi.



#554 barabbas16

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:15 PM

So you pick the two groups who know nothing about hockey.

 

So you just say that because they don't agree with what you think.



#555 Shaman

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:22 PM

 

So you just say that because they don't agree with what you think.

I think the consensus is that the order of reliability goes TSN>Sportsnet>Free Press>Mlive>Random poster on LGW>Eklund>>>>>ESPN.

 

Sorry but ESPN is literally bottom of the barrel when it comes to hockey coverage.  


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#556 barabbas16

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:55 PM

I think the consensus is that the order of reliability goes TSN>Sportsnet>Free Press>Mlive>Random poster on LGW>Eklund>>>>>ESPN.

 

Sorry but ESPN is literally bottom of the barrel when it comes to hockey coverage.  

 

Well, you are entitled to your opinion on that just as much as you are on the draft.  I was just saying that it seems like others disagree with your negative opinion of the Wings' 2013 draft.... so you may not be in the consensus there.

 

bleacherreport.com....

 

Greatest Needs: Forward depth

Top Pick(s): RW Anthony Mantha, RW Zach Nastasiuk, LW Tyler Bertuzzi, C Mattias Janmark-Nylen

The Detroit Red Wings had a number of options with their first-round pick. They ended up selecting the top goal scorer in junior hockey, winger Anthony Mantha. Mantha scored 50 goals last season and has a great shot. He needs to get more involved physically, but the Red Wings can give him the time to develop that element in his game.

The Wings also added Zach Nastasiuk of the Owen Sound Attack. He switched to the wing halfway through the season, and it made a huge difference in his game. They also added winger Tyler Bertuzzi who is a project, but has some good bloodlines as the nephew of Todd Bertuzzi.

It was some good drafting by the Red Wings.

Grade: B+

 

sportingnews.com....

 

DETROIT RED WINGS: A. Got an extra second-round pick for being willing to move down two spots in the first round, where they came away with a fine prospect in Anthony Mantha. Didn’t pick anyone smaller than 6-0, 178-pound Tyler Bertuzzi, selected with that extra second-rounder.

 

The reality is that, obviously, no one will know for a while how good the draftw as for anyone.  But, I just don't see how anyone on this board can be complaining about this draft.  It seems like in every thread multiple people are whining that the Wings and their prospects are too small and not gritty enough.  So, they draft size and grit.  And there's still complaining.  I don't pay enough attention to who says what, so I am not directly calling you a hypocrite in particular.  Just speaking about the board in general.... it seemed to me like a draft that LGW should have been pretty pleased with.  I guess everyone can;t be pleased.... and some will just always find something to complain about (again, not necessarily you.... just venting I guess).



#557 RedWingCraig

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:13 PM

 

Well, you are entitled to your opinion on that just as much as you are on the draft.  I was just saying that it seems like others disagree with your negative opinion of the Wings' 2013 draft.... so you may not be in the consensus there.

 

bleacherreport.com....

 

Greatest Needs: Forward depth

Top Pick(s): RW Anthony Mantha, RW Zach Nastasiuk, LW Tyler Bertuzzi, C Mattias Janmark-Nylen

The Detroit Red Wings had a number of options with their first-round pick. They ended up selecting the top goal scorer in junior hockey, winger Anthony Mantha. Mantha scored 50 goals last season and has a great shot. He needs to get more involved physically, but the Red Wings can give him the time to develop that element in his game.

The Wings also added Zach Nastasiuk of the Owen Sound Attack. He switched to the wing halfway through the season, and it made a huge difference in his game. They also added winger Tyler Bertuzzi who is a project, but has some good bloodlines as the nephew of Todd Bertuzzi.

It was some good drafting by the Red Wings.

Grade: B+

 

sportingnews.com....

 

DETROIT RED WINGS: A. Got an extra second-round pick for being willing to move down two spots in the first round, where they came away with a fine prospect in Anthony Mantha. Didn’t pick anyone smaller than 6-0, 178-pound Tyler Bertuzzi, selected with that extra second-rounder.

 

The reality is that, obviously, no one will know for a while how good the draftw as for anyone.  But, I just don't see how anyone on this board can be complaining about this draft.  It seems like in every thread multiple people are whining that the Wings and their prospects are too small and not gritty enough.  So, they draft size and grit.  And there's still complaining.  I don't pay enough attention to who says what, so I am not directly calling you a hypocrite in particular.  Just speaking about the board in general.... it seemed to me like a draft that LGW should have been pretty pleased with.  I guess everyone can;t be pleased.... and some will just always find something to complain about (again, not necessarily you.... just venting I guess).

The Wings don't need any of this picks to be all stars...if they can get 1 or 2 out of this group to make the Wings down the road it will be a successful draft



#558 Datsyukian-Deke

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:18 PM

Grading a teams draft is total B.S. I'm sure people thought we were crazy for taking a small forward from Russia and a small forward from Sweden in the late rounds and I think turned out pretty well. If Mantha becomes a star and any other pick even makes the team I'm happy.

#559 Shaman

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:52 PM

Grading a teams draft is total B.S. I'm sure people thought we were crazy for taking a small forward from Russia and a small forward from Sweden in the late rounds and I think turned out pretty well. If Mantha becomes a star and any other pick even makes the team I'm happy.

Mantha by himself makes the draft a B to me, that kid is so exciting.

 

I just feel that it was a waste to select a guy projected to be a 6-7th rounder in the second round when there were many many better players on the board was a bad idea.


Edited by Shaman464, 01 July 2013 - 07:54 PM.

Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
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In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
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#560 matthewdanna

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:01 PM

Grading a teams draft is total B.S. I'm sure people thought we were crazy for taking a small forward from Russia and a small forward from Sweden in the late rounds and I think turned out pretty well. If Mantha becomes a star and any other pick even makes the team I'm happy.

 

Agreed.  If two of draft picks make the NHL Roster this draft is a success, plain and simple.  If Mantha becomes a top-6 RW it's a good draft.  If Mantha (or anyone else on this team for that matter) becomes a consistent 25-30 goal scorer or 70 point guy then it's a great draft.

 

I think Janmark-Nylen might be a 3rd line guy down the road and I would love to see Wheaton crushing some Leafs into the boards in the future.







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