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Report: Red Wings out on Lecavalier - signs with Philly 5@4.5 per


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#121 e_prime

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:00 PM

vinny clearly went for the cash philadelphia doesnt even have a goalie .... this is just laughable , flyers just got rid of 2 disaster deals and they might just end up regretting this one in 2-3 yrs if vinny continues to have injury problems

 

I'm guessing Vinny may have gone for the team that offered him term and a NMC... I'm sure Detroit or Dallas offered him at least $4.5 but probably only for 2-3 years.  ...and hopefully Holland has learned that not every player deserves a NMC.

 

I am a little disappointed... but more in Vinny than Holland.  So... Whatevs.


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#122 F.Michael

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:09 PM

I guess Vinny must like his early summer vacations, and not worrying himself over the possibility of winning that big silver shiny thingy.



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#123 Red Crazy

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:09 PM

Holland probably tried to low ball him. Holland had to use a buy out on Carlo and didn't get nothing for Flip. I am starting to really question the skipper because if the fish isn't in the barrel then he sure as s*** can't shoot them elsewhere.



#124 e_prime

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:39 PM

I guess Vinny must like his early summer vacations, and not worrying himself over the possibility of winning that big silver shiny thingy.

Playoffs are a drag... He's already got his name on the shiny silver thingy.  Besides Philly is SO MUCH NICER A CITY THAN DETROIT, amitrite!?!


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#125 TheOwl

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:39 PM

Horrible move by Holland. You'll pay Sammy 3 million a year, but you won't pay Vincent 4.5? The guy would of been our 3rd best forward. You wouldn't pay 4.5 million for a top 3 forward? Come on. The Wings can't score. They haven't been scoring for YEARS. How do you fix such a problem? PAY A FEW EXTRA BUCKS AND SIGN SOME DECENT TOP 6 FORWARDS. Would you rather have Vincent at 4.5 a season, or Cleary at 3. Seriously.

 

I will use my magical crystal ball and tell you what Holland will do in the next week:

 

Cleary for 3 million a season for 3-4 years.

Sign Brunner for 2-3 million for 3-4 years.

Buy-out Carlo.

"We like our team." - Holland

 

DONE. We will have an IDENTICAL team to last year, except Flipulla will be gone. The Wings need 1-2 top 6 forwards. The Wings have too many players signed, and Kenny seems not to care. Get rid of a few, and get BETTER ONES. WE HAVE THE SPACE. GETTER DONE.

 

I will bet ANYONE on here $20 that Philly will win the cup before the Wings do. Making moves, even if a few are bad, is better than doing nothing. And Kenny has basically made ZERO moves for 5 years.


Edited by TheOwl, 02 July 2013 - 08:41 PM.


#126 stillwater

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:01 PM

 

I will bet ANYONE on here $20 that Philly will win the cup before the Wings do. Making moves, even if a few are bad, is better than doing nothing. And Kenny has basically made ZERO moves for 5 years.

 

You have found your taker. Let's make $200 to the charity of the winner's choice, shall we?



#127 gcom007

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:16 PM

When we sign the guys we do at what we do and then I see deals like this, I wonder if Holland even tries. I don't know how people can continue to defend him when he seems to so clearly be unable to maneuver well with free agents anymore. Lecavalier at $5 million for 5 years at worst wouldn't have been as bad as Sammy for $3 million, ever. That he went to Philly for $4.5 though is even sillier. Franzen has close to a $4 million cap hit and he's already more worthless than Vinny would likely be in his 4th and 5th years.

 

At this rate, I think we'll be lucky if we can sign Brunner again.

 

And by "at this rate," I don't mean one guy that we didn't before free agency even began, I'm talking about the last four off-seasons of failing to truly make this team better via free agency or trade. I get that development and the draft are vitally important, more than ever in the cap era, but it takes a fool to think development alone will put you over the top. Clearly Holland doesn't believe that it'll work, otherwise he wouldn't pursue anyone, so don't even try to kid yourselves into thinking his schtick about being focused on the draft and development after he comes up empty is anything more than lip service to his local lapdogs at MLive and the Free Press.

 

Again, what shouldn't worry anyone is whether or not Holland believes you need to be able to add NHL talent to your roster via trade or free agency. What should cause you to just shake your head is that Holland just doesn't seem able to get that job done anymore, and it's a shame. Any team built around Datsyuk and Zetterberg with decent goaltending is close to being a contender. We saw that clearly in the last playoffs. But it's going to continue to go to waste if Holland doesn't pull up his britches and take some chances. So what if deals don't always work out? For the love, grow up and deal with it, that's life!

 

Maybe Lecavalier had other reasons to go to Philly, but at this moment, given what is known, it's hard to imagine. He doesn't automatically make them a contender by a long-shot, but if he had signed with the Wings, after what we saw from our young guys and what he'd add, I'll be damned if I wouldn't be very, very confident heading into the playoffs the next couple of years at least, probably more. But as of now, it's hard to have confidence in that because once again, I just don't have confidence in Holland's ability to make the moves that will put us over the top, and we're just too close to keep wasting opportunities.


-Elliot...does not panic.

#128 amato

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:21 PM

I will bet ANYONE on here $20 that Philly will win the cup before the Wings do. Making moves, even if a few the vast majority of them are bad, is better than doing nothing. And Kenny has basically made ZERO moves for 5 years.

 

:P don't like philly 


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#129 gcom007

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:27 PM

 

I'm guessing Vinny may have gone for the team that offered him term and a NMC... I'm sure Detroit or Dallas offered him at least $4.5 but probably only for 2-3 years.  ...and hopefully Holland has learned that not every player deserves a NMC.

 

I am a little disappointed... but more in Vinny than Holland.  So... Whatevs.

 

Why are you disappointed in him? He obviously believes he can play for 5 more years and he doesn't want to move his family again. That's a pretty reasonable thing to want, and that he was willing to sign for a very reasonable $4.5 million is also telling that he wasn't out for the money, as he probably could've gotten close to that much in less years of playing. On a 2-3 year deal, he's easily still a $6 million and up caliber player, so 5 and $4.5 isn't bad at all, and it'll be even easier in those 4th and 5th years when the cap gets back up to around $80 million. Again, I don't think Vinny will put the Flyers over the top as there are other issues at play, but I think he could've gone a long way to putting the Wings over the top the next few years.

 

This frustrates me a whole lot more than not signing Parise and Suter. I gave no f*** about not signing those two individuals, but this is just very frustrating any way you shake it. That Sammy was signed to a multi-year deal for $1.5 less last year just hurts my brain, two-year term or not. I've got a feeling that Holland's going to have to have a hell of a weekend if he doesn't want to lose the faith of those that still believe that the "best GM in the business" isn't just resting on his laurels and a strong scouting staff.


Edited by gcom007, 02 July 2013 - 10:30 PM.

-Elliot...does not panic.

#130 Euro_Twins

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:42 PM

 
You have found your taker. Let's make $200 to the charity of the winner's choice, shall we?


I want in on this

#131 TheOwl

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:57 PM

I'll do it. $200 bucks for the charity of the others choosing. Philly will win a Cup before the Wings.



#132 stillwater

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:04 AM

I'll message you soon



#133 evilmrt

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:07 AM

WE LIKE OUR TEAM!!!!



#134 The Axe

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:13 AM

WE LIKE OUR TEAM!!!!


I like our team without Sammy, Bert, Colo, White, and Cleary.

#135 Dabura

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:20 AM

This frustrates me a whole lot more than not signing Parise and Suter. I gave no f*** about not signing those two individuals, but this is just very frustrating any way you shake it. That Sammy was signed to a multi-year deal for $1.5 less last year just hurts my brain, two-year term or not. I've got a feeling that Holland's going to have to have a hell of a weekend if he doesn't want to lose the faith of those that still believe that the "best GM in the business" isn't just resting on his laurels and a strong scouting staff.

 

Holland is Lucy. We're Charlie Brown. The specific football changes every offseason (and trade deadline), but the basic concept/dynamic stays the same.

 

What really irks me is that seemingly everything he says is a crock. I mean, this DRAFTING IS EVERYTHING. YOUTH. HOMEGROWN TALENT BAY-BEE kick - is that why we signed Samuelsson, Colaiacovo, and Tootoo? Is that why we very seriously pursued Suter and Parise? Is that why we swooned for Salo?

 

We went with the kids out of sheer necessity and desperation. And over the course of their stay - or maybe all at once, in a Eureka! moment - Holland realized, "Hey...kids = I can do and say whatever I want and no matter what the eventual outcome, I'm covered! We don't make the playoffs? It's a rebuild! We make it to the WCF? Ha! We don't do rebuilds here in Hockeytown! I can't land a big-name player? Drafting is everything! We're so homegrown! We are ridiculously smallish up front, especially down the middle? We just drafted some big guys! And drafting is everything! True, we won't see them for years, if at all, but every team goes through dry spells because that's how it is in The Cap Era! So get off my case about not signing some quality NHL power-forward guy who could score that Game 7 overtime goal against the 'hawks, the reality is there are 30 teams in this league! Two to tango! Maybe a two-for-one! Or a three-for-one! Or a three-for-two!!!! We like our team! We're gonna kick some tires! We're set on D - and we're looking hard for a high-end first-or-second-pair defenseman! We don't need you, Flip, because we have options now! Wait, we may need you, Flip, because I was trolled into thinking we had options - but we don't! Or maybe I'm just lazy/inept/crunk! Or maybe a four-for-three!!!!!!


Edited by Dabura, 03 July 2013 - 01:22 AM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#136 Euro_Twins

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:59 AM

I'll do it. $200 bucks for the charity of the others choosing. Philly will win a Cup before the Wings.

 

I really want in on this, if philly wins first you get $400 for your charity, if wings (not if but when) win first, your $200 goes to stillwater's charity 



#137 Nev

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 04:03 AM


I will bet ANYONE on here $20 that Philly will win the cup before the Wings do. Making moves, even if a few are bad, is better than doing nothing. And Kenny has basically made ZERO moves for 5 years.

 

yeah, cos that Philly philosophy of sign every big-name FA, trade for every big name on the trading block, pay them all mega-bucks, then trade/release/buy out a couple of years later has really worked for them, huh?  A couple of random trips to the cup finals, and that's it.  Throwing players at the wall and seeing who sticks has NOT worked for them. 

 

Meanwhile, its only Pronger being on LTIR that will get them just under the cap and they've only got 1 goalie.

 

5 years is just too much for Vinny on Detroit.  If we'd signed him to this deal we'd have him, Franzen, Dats and Z all in their late 30s at the same time eating a huge chunk of cap space.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#138 xtrememachine1

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:42 AM

Philly is a prime example of how NOT to do it.  Sure they're making trades, making big signings, buying out players, but they're also over the cap even after buying out Briere and Bryzgalov.  They're stuck with Pronger's contract, Giroux and Brayden Schenn are RFAs next year and Giroux should be getting a huge deal coming up, they have just one goalie right now, Wayne Simmonds is signed through 2019(?), 7 of their 9 defensemen are making over $3.5 mil...  its things like this that make me glad we have a GM that takes a more patient approach.


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#139 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:50 AM

Would have been nice to have him...at first I didn't think 5 years would have been too bad, but then realizing he would have been 39 (and already declining) when the contract was up, I can see why Holland didn't match.

 

Kudos to Holland for offering $5M per for 2 years though! Keep on Kicking the snot out of those tires Kenny!

 

Vinny's loss anyhow! Last I checked Philly failed to make the playoffs, had to buyout Bryz and Briere (which makes them even worse) and are STILL over the cap.  I am sure they will bury Pronger again to get under, but I think Vinny made a mistake.  We will see...

 

 

edit: At least I think he offered him $5 for two years....I could have swore that when the news came down he signed for 5 years, it was said on twitter by one of the NHL folks that Holland offered 2 years, 5 years was too many....


Edited by LeftWinger, 03 July 2013 - 08:11 AM.

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#140 Crymson

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:56 AM

Oh come on, who didn't see this coming.

If the guy was 40, then maybe Holland would have considered him.

First off, in regards to term length, it seems much less risky now with each team allocated compliance buyouts per year. Yeah its not the most respectful thing to the players but it would allow Holland to sleep while still signing him at an appropriate price. 4.5M is a fair price for Lecavalier.

And again, what new player has Holland signed in the last 4 or 5 years that has worked out and proved to be a good signing?

Tootoo?
Samuelsson?
White?
Modano?

Holland signs these guys, just for them to get scratched every game by Babcock.

Its quite clear our commander and chief has no direction on what he's doing.


Teams have two compliance buyouts in sum, and they must be used by next summer.





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