Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

The Overreaction Thread


  • Please log in to reply
126 replies to this topic

#81 brett

brett

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,023 posts
  • Location:NJ

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:19 PM

lets see if i got this right

 

vinny to philly. thats ok

brunner goes back to khl. eh i like him i think hes too old to learn and become as effective as we want

cleary is in talk? thats ridiculous 3 years none the less WOW

bert is staying. BS

no words on sammy being bought out. major BS

cola, who i thought was a unsung hero in the playoffs being bought out

and no one new being brought in so far.

 

im all for having tatar nyquist and andy in the lineup next year, but thats not enough. if your letting fil go then you need a replacement if not an upgrade. we dont have any guys with enough experience as fil had to fill that gap


Edited by brett, 04 July 2013 - 12:20 PM.


#82 frankgrimes

frankgrimes

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,200 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:25 PM

lets see if i got this right
 
vinny to philly. thats ok
brunner goes back to khl. eh i like him i think hes too old to learn and become as effective as we want
cleary is in talk? thats ridiculous 3 years none the less WOW
bert is staying. BS
no words on sammy being bought out. major BS
cola, who i thought was a unsung hero in the playoffs being bought out
and no one new being brought in so far.
 
im all for having tatar nyquist and andy in the lineup next year, but thats not enough. if your letting fil go then you need a replacement if not an upgrade. we dont have any guys with enough experience as fil had to fill that gap


Brunner NEVER played in the khl, he is from switzerland and played alongside Z in the nla. Yeah who would want a pure goalscorer, something the Wings have missed for a long time give the guy a break it was his first season the NHL and he did fairly well, if the Wings let him go it will be a mistake bitting them back soon.

kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..


#83 sjr2012

sjr2012

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,141 posts
  • Location:Croswell,MI

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:28 PM

lets see if i got this right

 

vinny to philly. thats ok

brunner goes back to khl. eh i like him i think hes too old to learn and become as effective as we want

cleary is in talk? thats ridiculous 3 years none the less WOW

bert is staying. BS

no words on sammy being bought out. major BS

cola, who i thought was a unsung hero in the playoffs being bought out

and no one new being brought in so far.

 

im all for having tatar nyquist and andy in the lineup next year, but thats not enough. if your letting fil go then you need a replacement if not an upgrade. we dont have any guys with enough experience as fil had to fill that gap

wait till fa


Edited by sjr2012, 04 July 2013 - 12:28 PM.

try to get something by me i dare you

 

 

:goalie:


#84 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:14 PM

The people demanding Kenny's head for not making big trades and getting UFAs to sign here are the same people that will demand Kenny's head when we lost a great prospect in a trade and he becomes a star somewhere else or when someone signs a big contract with us and then doesn't immediately score the trillion goals they hoped he would.
Lose/Lose for poor Mr. Holland


This is not an issue.

The issues are:

1) Every Red Wings supporter besides Holland wants Samuelsson gone.

2) We lack a 1st line sniper. Vanek.

3) We lack a 2nd line tough guy/support player. Clarkson.


Resigning Brunner - Helps our third line, but isnt an immediate need.

Resigning Flip is a mistake.

Resigning Cleary is a mistake.

Not buying out Tootoo and Bertuzzi with standard buyouts is a mistake (unless packaged in Vanek trade, miraculously).


Simple job right now. But Holland is so blind, he will botch it.

#85 Serratoni

Serratoni

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 114 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:15 PM

 

I think the term fan comes from the word fanatic.

fa·nat·ic [fuh-nat-ik]
noun
1.
a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.

 

 

Moreover, anyone who claims that Wings fans behave the way they do because they are spoiled hasn't visited a Lions forum. The fans there act the same way and that certainly has nothing to do with being spoiled by winning.

 

Fans are fanatics. They want their team to win every year.



#86 chrisdetroit

chrisdetroit

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,407 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:03 PM

I wish the series against the Chicago would be seen in a different way. The Wings joked away a 3:1 series lead the Hawks played their 4 worst games of the season once they've turned it on the Wings didn't even have a chance - this team is not close to Chicagos level. Statements like the above are exactly why I would have been fine with missing the playoffs, because at least it would have shown the higher ups that changes are needed standing pat will not get the job done, period. Other teams a re improving getting better each season and the Wings are - like it or not - falling behind which also means it will get harder and harder to attract players in free agency. Holland has done a lot of great things and nobody will take it away from him, but the guy does have problems with overpaying you can't expect UFAs to go to a non contender and take a discount anymore, the current Wings edition is not close to the cup, so the only option to get these guys is to take the risk and sometimes overpay. It may or may not turn out but at least itshows the league, that the Wings are still a force to recognize come draft, free agency and trade deadline...something, this team hasen't been for almost 5 years now. It would be even longer if Hossa didn't take a paycut in order to get his chance at the cup. No this is not an overreaction its the pure and sad reality. Like others mentioned, there is still time but the top guys are getting signed soon so waiting and then sign some meh players will not make this team better or bring back the WOW or ROAR effect this team used to own.

I'm not sure what  you were watching but the Wings lost in Overtime in game 7 on a shot that deflected off of Kronwall's skate.  They lost game six on a horrible penalty shot call against them.  They could easily have won either game and eliminated the hawks.  Didn't have a chance?  WTF?

 

The same year that Hossa took a paycut, Kenny signed Stuart (a UFA) to a 4 year contract.

 

Overeaction?  No, you are making stuff up to justify your point. 


This is not an issue.

The issues are:

1) Every Red Wings supporter besides Holland wants Samuelsson gone.

2) We lack a 1st line sniper. Vanek.

3) We lack a 2nd line tough guy/support player. Clarkson.


Resigning Brunner - Helps our third line, but isnt an immediate need.

Resigning Flip is a mistake.

Resigning Cleary is a mistake.

Not buying out Tootoo and Bertuzzi with standard buyouts is a mistake (unless packaged in Vanek trade, miraculously).


Simple job right now. But Holland is so blind, he will botch it.

One more time.  Sammy claims that he is injured and therefore can't be bought out.  Why do people keep saying to  buy him out?  Pay attention people


Do or do not. There is no try

#87 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:06 PM

One more time.  Sammy claims that he is injured and therefore can't be bought out.  Why do people keep saying to  buy him out?  Pay attention people


The Wings can get rid of him. Pay him 100% if necessary. Just get rid of him.

#88 gcom007

gcom007

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,149 posts
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:23 PM

I'm not sure what  you were watching but the Wings lost in Overtime in game 7 on a shot that deflected off of Kronwall's skate.  They lost game six on a horrible penalty shot call against them.  They could easily have won either game and eliminated the hawks.  Didn't have a chance?  WTF?

 

The same year that Hossa took a paycut, Kenny signed Stuart (a UFA) to a 4 year contract.

 

Overeaction?  No, you are making stuff up to justify your point. 


One more time.  Sammy claims that he is injured and therefore can't be bought out.  Why do people keep saying to  buy him out?  Pay attention people

 

Yes, they could've easily won, but the reality is that they didn't. And that we were up 3-1 and still found a way to lose the series is very telling of not only that the Wings still have holes, but respectfully, that the Blackhawks were a better team than a lot of people wanted to give them credit for. And if we're going to reference the BS penalty shot, we should be fair and remember that the only reason game 7 went to overtime is because of a BS no goal in our favor. Otherwise Hawks win in regulation. And we were still losing when the original penalty shot was called. Even if it hadn't been called and say we score that goal, all that happens is game 6 goes to overtime in which either team could've won. That's how bounces go.

 

Bottom line to me is that Chicago was set up to lose the series while we were set up to win it after four games, yet we found a way to lose and Chicago found a way to win. There were some tough bounces for both sides along the way, but I think it's pretty clear that the better team won that series, and I think it's pretty fair to say that the Hawks weren't at their best through the first four games, and all credit in the world to the Wings, they rallied around it and took advantage of it. But the Hawks got their act together and found a way to win, bottom line. That's what Stanley Cup champion teams do.

 

That said, I think it's reasonable to say that this Wings team in general didn't have a chance against the Blackhawk's team that beat them, and that was the real Blackhawk's team. If they had played more like they did the last three games the whole series, we would not have gone up 3-1 and they probably would've beaten us in 5 or 6. But to be clear, I'm not saying that so much to take away from the Wings, as I think they played well any way you shake it. But again, I just think the Blackhawks were a much better team than people wanted to give them credit for.


-Elliot...does not panic.

#89 gcom007

gcom007

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,149 posts
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:44 PM

The Wings can get rid of him. Pay him 100% if necessary. Just get rid of him.

 

Not going to happen at this point. Their one and only hope at this point is that he spends the year on LTIR. But who cares? What makes anyone think that the same Holland that was dumb enough to sign him last summer would do much better with the cap room this summer? Holland hasn't done jack s*** to prove that he's able to bring in players that make this team even marginally better via free agency or trade in the four years that we actually started to feel the effects of the cap.

 

Teams like Chicago find a way to seemingly overspend, regroup, and rebuild around their rock solid core. In the process, they've now won two Cups.

 

Holland, meanwhile, has paid crap players too much, failed to sign or trade for anyone meaningful, lost his top three defensemen over the course of a little over a year while failing to add a player even close to equivalent to the least talented of the three defensemen lost. In the process, our best run came in spite of Holland's free agency efforts last summer when our kids from GR came up to do the work that our injured or sputtering "NHLers" were unable to do either due to injury or simply because they weren't very good at all.

 

That said, what do you truly expect at this point? While it sounds almost incomprehensible even for Holland that he'd let Brunner and Flip walk without adding at least someone respectable enough to maybe be a second line center, I really wouldn't be shocked if he lost both guys and just signed Cleary. Everyone keeps saying Weiss, but I'll be very surprised if Holland pulls it off. Somehow, he'll end up being too expensive or something. It's always something, and then it's always "trades" or "next summer."

 

I think I'd rather have Stan Bowman. He's won two Cups maneuvering through the same cap difficulties we've had if not worse, and he was smart enough to sign Hossa at a great cap hit when he had the chance. Plus, then we'd still have Scotty Bowman around. You can't deny the correlation between Bowman leaving the organization and our ability to sign or trade for NHLers that improve our team, nor Chicago's success since Bowman came into the fold and Stan took over as GM there. Obviously we can't say that it's an absolute explanation and Holland was just his puppet, but it's tough to deny that it hasn't played some part in said team's successes and struggles.


-Elliot...does not panic.

#90 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:49 PM

 
Not going to happen at this point. Their one and only hope at this point is that he spends the year on LTIR. But who cares? What makes anyone think that the same Holland that was dumb enough to sign him last summer would do much better with the cap room this summer? Holland hasn't done jack s*** to prove that he's able to bring in players that make this team even marginally better via free agency or trade in the four years that we actually started to feel the effects of the cap.
 
Teams like Chicago find a way to seemingly overspend, regroup, and rebuild around their rock solid core. In the process, they've now won two Cups.
 
Holland, meanwhile, has paid crap players too much, failed to sign or trade for anyone meaningful, lost his top three defensemen over the course of a little over a year while failing to add a player even close to equivalent to the least talented of the three defensemen lost. In the process, our best run came in spite of Holland's free agency efforts last summer when our kids from GR came up to do the work that our injured or sputtering "NHLers" were unable to do either due to injury or simply because they weren't very good at all.
 
That said, what do you truly expect at this point? While it sounds almost incomprehensible even for Holland that he'd let Brunner and Flip walk without adding at least someone respectable enough to maybe be a second line center, I really wouldn't be shocked if he lost both guys and just signed Cleary. Everyone keeps saying Weiss, but I'll be very surprised if Holland pulls it off. Somehow, he'll end up being too expensive or something. It's always something, and then it's always "trades" or "next summer."
 
I think I'd rather have Stan Bowman. He's won two Cups maneuvering through the same cap difficulties we've had if not worse, and he was smart enough to sign Hossa at a great cap hit when he had the chance. Plus, then we'd still have Scotty Bowman around. You can't deny the correlation between Bowman leaving the organization and our ability to sign or trade for NHLers that improve our team, nor Chicago's success since Bowman came into the fold and Stan took over as GM there. Obviously we can't say that it's an absolute explanation and Holland was just his puppet, but it's tough to deny that it hasn't played some part in said team's successes and struggles.


Agreed. Holland will pay a guy who is woth next to nothing 2 million, and then do it 5 more times on other guys. Then he'll lose a bidding war on an all-star over 250k.

#91 RedWingAbner

RedWingAbner

    My Loony Bun Is Fine, Benny Lava

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,319 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:09 PM

As long as Ken Holland is the GM, accept mediocrity.  He's trained the fan base for several years to accept "we like our team," "our deadline addition is _______ coming back from injury," and "the price is too high."  The game has passed him by, and he s-*-*-*s away players' careers by not adding necessary pieces (Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg).

 

The price *may* be high compared to what it used to be....but Jesus.....you can't tell me we can't sacrifice ANYTHING from the farm team to fix obvious deficiencies we've had for some time?

 

But even then....yeesh....when Ken Holland does do something, does it not seem like a combination of drunken booty call (Quincey, Samuelsson) or flat out stupid (Coliacovo, Gustavsson).

 

I anxiously await the day we get a quality GM again.  It's amazing what people here stomach when teams like Boston and Chicago have figured it out.

 

There are teams that have GMs that overreact....Philly, New York.....there are teams who have it figured out......and then there are teams whose GMs simply think showing up and collecting a pay check is enough (KEN F*ING HOLLAND)



#92 evilmrt

evilmrt

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,582 posts
  • Location:Winter Freakin Wonderland

Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:17 PM

Not sure I can tolerate watching Holland not improve a team that was a couple pieces away from the Finals. How do you propose to avoid another first or second round exit? Oh hey I've got an idea, let's field the same exact team again and see if it works.

#93 gcom007

gcom007

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,149 posts
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:19 PM

Agreed. Holland will pay a guy who is woth next to nothing 2 million, and then do it 5 more times on other guys. Then he'll lose a bidding war on an all-star over 250k.

 

The thing I'll say about Stan Bowman is that he seems to believe the team with the core they have is good enough to really go for it almost every year, because they are. What bothers me more than anything about Holland, especially after this last run, is that despite having a similar core to Chicago (with consistently better goaltending to boot) in Zetterberg, Datsyuk and even Kronwall for that matter, he seems to sweat every detail and be content to let the core just keep the playoff streak up as opposed to actually try to do something in the playoffs.

 

Like I've said again and again, if you want to blow the team up and truly rebuild, fine. But actually do it. Don't just use it as a talking point after you fail to land anyone significant once again because you played it too conservative and felt emotionally compelled to sign players you're familiar with.

 

But if not, don't keep wasting the talents of Z and Dats. They're not getting any younger and this team is too close to not go for it. So what if it doesn't work? So what if we end up having cap struggles? Holland's supposed to be one of the best GMs, why can't he work it out like others have been able to? That's what the best GMs are doing in the cap era, and they've got Cups from this era to prove that they're doing something right.

 

We won our last Cup in the cap era, but Z and Franzen were also at their career bests and both were on old contracts that paid them very little. We also had two Stanley Cup winning goalies that were playing here for next to nothing. We were lucky, and we absolutely weren't feeling the cap yet. Since the cap truly started affecting contract decisions, Holland has come up with nothing but failures. 2009, if not 2008, was a clear line in the sand for Holland in terms of maneuvering to make this team better with NHL talent via trade or free agency.

 

I get that Holland has plenty of accolades that attribute to his reputation as a GM, but if you can't see the pattern that's been developing since he truly had to build a team while dealing with a salary cap, you're not being objective. And that should worry you, and it's perfectly reasonable to admit that without taking away from his former successes. It's a different league and he's dealing with different rules now than he had to before. But again, the great GMs of the cap era have to find a way to work around those rules, and they can't ignore free agency or trading altogether if they're going to be successful.

 

And for the love, you have to get more hardline with the current guys on your roster that are getting older if they want to stay. Guys like Cleary are nicer to have around than they get credit for, but not at the money being talked about, and not when you have talent like you do in GR. If they're going to stick around, they need to play ball, and Holland needs to be willing to let them walk otherwise. I think in many cases, you'd find guys willing to adjust their expectations if Holland's expectations on what a reasonable contract for an older role player is. Bottom line, decent playoff run or not, Cleary should absolutely not be getting a raise to stay on with the Wings at this point in his career. He should be one of the guys saying "pay me less and sign the guys that will help put us over the top." If Holland went out and signed those guys that anyone would be excited to play with, he'd have that leverage. Right now, he doesn't, and it's his own fault.


-Elliot...does not panic.

#94 gcom007

gcom007

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,149 posts
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:25 PM

Not sure I can tolerate watching Holland not improve a team that was a couple pieces away from the Finals. How do you propose to avoid another first or second round exit? Oh hey I've got an idea, let's field the same exact team again and see if it works.

 

Are you kidding? It's likely to be a weaker team. Flip was few people's favorite, but not having him and likely not really replacing him absolutely won't help. And again, I'm not convinced we sign Brunner. I'm also not convinced all our kids who excelled will automatically get back to playing at a higher level. We've seen plenty of examples of GR kids coming up and playing well in a pinch only to struggle when having to take on that bigger role on a regular basis. It's a very different kind of pressure when you become a regular, and more tend to struggle especially early on in their careers before they become consistent NHLers.


-Elliot...does not panic.

#95 evilmrt

evilmrt

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,582 posts
  • Location:Winter Freakin Wonderland

Posted 04 July 2013 - 05:02 PM


Not sure I can tolerate watching Holland not improve a team that was a couple pieces away from the Finals. How do you propose to avoid another first or second round exit? Oh hey I've got an idea, let's field the same exact team again and see if it works.



Are you kidding? It's likely to be a weaker team. Flip was few people's favorite, but not having him and likely not really replacing him absolutely won't help. And again, I'm not convinced we sign Brunner. I'm also not convinced all our kids who excelled will automatically get back to playing at a higher level. We've seen plenty of examples of GR kids coming up and playing well in a pinch only to struggle when having to take on that bigger role on a regular basis. It's a very different kind of pressure when you become a regular, and more tend to struggle especially early on in their careers before they become consistent NHLers.


You know, I was trying to be a little positive.

But you're right. Losing Flipper and Brunner and not replacing them sounds like the best idea EVAR

Edited by evilmrt, 04 July 2013 - 05:02 PM.


#96 mjtm77

mjtm77

    mjtm77

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 962 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 05:30 PM

so much for the redwings being spenders lol! why even buy out carlo if the cap space is just gunna sit there

 

and ya I used street grammeer casue I don't care anymore.

 

 no matter what we do other than a trade is going to be a mistake. Bring on the season. Im calling this offseason a bust


Posted Image

#97 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 05:34 PM

You know, I was trying to be a little positive. But you're right. Losing Flipper and Brunner and not replacing them sounds like the best idea EVAR


Even worse. We are going to give Bertuzzi and Sammy their spots.

#98 WingedWheel91

WingedWheel91

    Top Prospect

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 64 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:15 PM

All the buy out Sameulsson talk is coming from people who aren't paying attention. The fact is the Red Wings COULD NOT buy him out before the compliance deadline earlier today... Otherwise they most certainly would have. The same could probably be said of Bertuzzi as well, as players unfit to play are ineligable for a buyout.

Unfortunatley, Sammy's injury is probably close to being healed and at the very least he knows he will be ready for the start of training camp... His selfish behaviour (see 2010, when he told the Swedish Olympic team to f*** themselves after cutting him) will catch up to him when he's sitting in the press box to start the year.

But after all of that, it still DOESN'T matter because we have almost $11 Million in cap space available with 14 forwards (Gus and Andy are RFA'S) 7 Defensemen and 2 Goalies under contract, meaning there is no possible scenario we can reach this years cap when we really have room for one more forward. Adding one of Weiss, Cullen, or Ribeiro will still leave us under, while next season Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, Eaves, Quincey and Gustavsson will be clearing another $11.5 Million off the books. Consider our cap space assuming we only add another $5 Million contract, plus the Cap going up another $4 Millon or so based on averages pre-lockout and we could have anywhere from $20-25 Million of Cap Space next summer + A compliance buyout to use if needed.

#99 dirtydangles

dirtydangles

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,850 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:21 PM

Can we get a fan letter in to Mr Illitch to voice our displeasure with Holland? I think most people would just be happy with a GM that avoids dead weight players and lets the kids fill spots as they earn it. Im not saying holland should be spending to the cap with the flavor of the month - i just want him to stop pursuing old vets instead of letting the kids play. Why draft them then?

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#100 barabbas16

barabbas16

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 424 posts
  • Location:Parkersburg, WV

Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:55 PM

 

I think the term fan comes from the word fanatic.

fa·nat·ic [fuh-nat-ik]
noun
1.
a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.

 

 

So....just to recap... The Serratoni guy basically said criticizing the team is all part of being a fan. 

 

Then, MidMichSteve posts a definition of fanatic that includes the phrase "uncritical enthusiasm." 

 

THEN, Serratoni 'likes' MidMichSteve's definition post that seemed (to me) to contradict Serratoni's previous post.

 

..... am I misreading something?  Did the guy change his mind on what a fan is, or....?







Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users