Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

The Overreaction Thread


  • Please log in to reply
126 replies to this topic

#101 Serratoni

Serratoni

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 114 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:29 PM

I'm not sure what  you were watching but the Wings lost in Overtime in game 7 on a shot that deflected off of Kronwall's skate.  They lost game six on a horrible penalty shot call against them.  They could easily have won either game and eliminated the hawks.  Didn't have a chance?  WTF?

 

When the Wings were up 3-1, I was as hopeful as anyone. I was thrilled with the Wings' performance, pleased that they made the playoffs a 22nd year straight and had already beaten the Ducks.

 

But when a team loses in seven games after being up 3-1, they deserved to lose and were beaten by the better team. Maybe you aren't old enough to remember the Wings losing to St. Louis in 91 in 7 games. The young Wings were up 3-1 in that series as underdogs and eventually lost. Moreover, they had no business being up 3-1 in that series. St. Louis had 105 pts. that season, the Wings an under .500 76 pts.

 

Or consider the next season when the Wings came back against Minnesota after a 3-1 deficit. "Pretty much goal," Fedorov said about an overtime winner. The North Stars didn't deserve to win that series and they didn't. Minny's point total that year? 70 to Det's 98. Again, the better team won.

 

These examples of underdogs losing in 7 games can probably be attributed to good teams playing down to the level of their competition more than anything. Did the Wings give Chicago a good series this year? Absolutely.  But when the Hawks finally got their collective heads out of their collective butts, they turned it on and won, no matter how close the final score was. Chicago beat Detroit when they had to, just like St. Louis did to the Wings in 91 and the Wings did to Minny in 92.

 

So while this year's playoff run was, I think most could agree, a fun and improbable ride, it ended when it should have, against the team that beat us every time in the regular season. The games were close but the outcome really wasn't.


 

So....just to recap... The Serratoni guy basically said criticizing the team is all part of being a fan. 

 

Then, MidMichSteve posts a definition of fanatic that includes the phrase "uncritical enthusiasm." 

 

THEN, Serratoni 'likes' MidMichSteve's definition post that seemed (to me) to contradict Serratoni's previous post.

 

..... am I misreading something?  Did the guy change his mind on what a fan is, or....?

 

Guess I ASSumed MidMichSteve was supporting my post, but I see your point. If he wasn't agreeing with me, he's wrong.

 

Sheep don't criticize. Fans do, can, and have every right to do so.



#102 RedWingAbner

RedWingAbner

    My Loony Bun Is Fine, Benny Lava

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,319 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:29 PM

Can we get a fan letter in to Mr Illitch to voice our displeasure with Holland? I think most people would just be happy with a GM that avoids dead weight players and lets the kids fill spots as they earn it. Im not saying holland should be spending to the cap with the flavor of the month - i just want him to stop pursuing old vets instead of letting the kids play. Why draft them then?

As eager as I am to sign that, it would be ignored.



#103 SaCkaveli20

SaCkaveli20

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,088 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:34 PM

Maybe Ken Holland is medically insane?

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
- Albert Einstein

#104 DeGraa55

DeGraa55

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,749 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:37 PM

Maybe Ken Holland is medically insane?
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
- Albert Einstein



Using a fact like that to support it kinda of makes it true? Hopefully he proves us wrong though....

#105 RedWingAbner

RedWingAbner

    My Loony Bun Is Fine, Benny Lava

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,319 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:35 PM

Good news guys, I hear Todd Gill is available again.....



#106 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:52 PM

Can we get a fan letter in to Mr Illitch to voice our displeasure with Holland? I think most people would just be happy with a GM that avoids dead weight players and lets the kids fill spots as they earn it. Im not saying holland should be spending to the cap with the flavor of the month - i just want him to stop pursuing old vets instead of letting the kids play. Why draft them then?

 

Holland has helped Ilitch earn loads of money. If you hadn't noticed, postseason performances bring in quite a bit of dough. And by just about every metric out there, Holland is the best GM of the past 15 years.



#107 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,206 posts

Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:15 PM

Can we get a fan letter in to Mr Illitch to voice our displeasure with Holland? I think most people would just be happy with a GM that avoids dead weight players and lets the kids fill spots as they earn it. Im not saying holland should be spending to the cap with the flavor of the month - i just want him to stop pursuing old vets instead of letting the kids play. Why draft them then?

As Mr. Ilitch is Ken Holland's boss, I would guess the decisions he makes are with the approval of Mr. I or whoever is making the decisions for him at this point. 

 

Stan Bowman also had the good fortune of inheriting a team that had back to back top 3 picks in the draft, in which they were able to get Kane and Toews.  I would imagine if the Wings missed the playoffs for a few seasons and Holland was able to get picks like that, the Wings might look a little different right now. 

 

I see why this is called the overreaction thread.  We're barely into July and the Wings are already out of it.  LOL



#108 WingedWheel91

WingedWheel91

    Top Prospect

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 64 posts

Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:06 AM


I see why this is called the overreaction thread.  We're barely into July and the Wings are already out of it.  LOL[/quote]

Just wait until we don't get Vanek...

#109 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:56 AM

I see why this is called the overreaction thread.  We're barely into July and the Wings are already out of it.  LOL[/quote]

Just wait until we don't get Vanek...

 

Picking up a year of Vanek would be stupid unless he came very cheap, and there's no reason for the Sabres to trade him for very cheap.



#110 Travis

Travis

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,460 posts
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI

Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:57 AM


I think the term fan comes from the word fanatic.
fa·nat·ic [fuh-nat-ik]
noun
1.
a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.


Actually, it's far more likely that the term fan came from a shortened version of the word, "fanciers" given the era in which it was coined - the early 1900s.

cc_champs-5_zps34057ff0.png


#111 Panic In Detroit

Panic In Detroit

    Draftee

  • Member
  • 10 posts

Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:26 AM

'

This statement has to be one of the most lazy, thoughtless cliches in all of sports fandom. Just because fans want their team to improve or because they criticize moves or the lack thereof does not make those fans "spoiled." It makes them passionate. That's the definition of being a fan.

Straw Man, with a False Dichotomy thrown in for good measure. If your idea of "thoughtful" is simply combining logical fallacies, I am proud to be considered "thoughtless".

 

But this is kind of the problem with being merely passionate--it tends to overcloud rational thought.



#112 Serratoni

Serratoni

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 114 posts

Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:32 PM

Straw Man, with a False Dichotomy thrown in for good measure. If your idea of "thoughtful" is simply combining logical fallacies, I am proud to be considered "thoughtless".

 

But this is kind of the problem with being merely passionate--it tends to overcloud rational thought.

 

Irony: the guy who repeats a cliche yet claims to be using "rational thought." Good one.

 

Popping onto an internet spots forums and spouting off "Red Wings fans are spoiled" *is* lazy and that's why it's thoughtless. Moreover, it adds nothing to the conversation. It's a damn cliche. The sheep says, "Red Wings fans are spoiled -- baaaaah!"

 

Why? Because it doesn't consider the fact that MOST fans of all teams/sports behave the same supposedly spoiled way. Want proof? Visit a Lions' forum. The fans there rant and rave about their team and its management, yet the Lions have done anything BUT spoil their fans.



#113 Majsheppard

Majsheppard

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,512 posts

Posted 05 July 2013 - 02:03 PM

Congrats on keeping to your plan of making the team bigger, younger,  and increasing scoring by signing a 5'11 guy who got .24 ppg last year to a 4.9 5 year deal that will take a roster spot from one of the kids going forward.  He replaced a guy who over the last two years had . 68 ppg to Weiss' .62 ppg, and was an inch taller. 

 

 An aging 5'11 guy will help that out on top of that who is really old, and got .55 ppg last year to replace a 27 year old who got .59 ppg and two more goals in his first season who you could have gotten for a lot less than 5.5 Million. 

 

Holland sure is doing a great job.  Good show old boy. Bonus, you let Val walk without trading away his rights or anything like that...

 

What a s***ty, s***ty, s***ty job he has done the last three years. If Jim Nill was the reason we draft well, this team is going to be defunct in five years.  He doesn't have the guts to make a good move, then gets into a panic and throws money into horrible contracts that hurt the team. 

 

He didn't even buy out the right freaking contracts!  


"It is a lot easier to be an ******* to words than to people"-xkcd

Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#114 Travis

Travis

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,460 posts
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI

Posted 05 July 2013 - 02:05 PM

Holland sure is doing a great job.  Good show old boy. Bonus, you let Val walk without trading away his rights or anything like that...

 

Hard to trade the rights of a player who was destined for free agency.


cc_champs-5_zps34057ff0.png


#115 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,821 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 05 July 2013 - 02:10 PM

Congrats on keeping to your plan of making the team bigger, younger,  and increasing scoring by signing a 5'11 guy who got .24 ppg last year to a 4.9 5 year deal that will take a roster spot from one of the kids going forward.  He replaced a guy who over the last two years had . 68 ppg to Weiss' .62 ppg, and was an inch taller. 

 

 An aging 5'11 guy will help that out on top of that who is really old, and got .55 ppg last year to replace a 27 year old who got .59 ppg and two more goals in his first season who you could have gotten for a lot less than 5.5 Million. 

 

Holland sure is doing a great job.  Good show old boy. Bonus, you let Val walk without trading away his rights or anything like that...

 

What a s***ty, s***ty, s***ty job he has done the last three years. If Jim Nill was the reason we draft well, this team is going to be defunct in five years.  He doesn't have the guts to make a good move, then gets into a panic and throws money into horrible contracts that hurt the team. 

 

He didn't even buy out the right freaking contracts!  

 

I see we're copy and pasting from thread to thread now...

 

This is not going to take away any roster spots from the youth. If anything it will take away Cleary, Fil, Brunner, Sammy or Bertuzzi's spots. As they are all either expired this year or the next.

 

This is one of the most exciting days in the last few years and of course you find a way to criticize it.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#116 RusDRW

RusDRW

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,352 posts
  • Location:Tampere, FI

Posted 05 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

we are now vulnerable to offer sheets. Say someone signs Nyquist to 20m/4y. Will be able to match? Will we match? He is not 5M player now, but he could be in 2 years.


Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

© mikah

#117 Majsheppard

Majsheppard

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,512 posts

Posted 05 July 2013 - 02:20 PM

Oh and yeah, sniff around Morrow as well.  Not like you have to sign Nyqvist, Anderson, and Brendan Smith with 2.3 million dollars.  WHAT Af****** JOKE!


"It is a lot easier to be an ******* to words than to people"-xkcd

Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#118 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,821 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 05 July 2013 - 02:27 PM

Oh and yeah, sniff around Morrow as well.  Not like you have to sign Nyqvist, Anderson, and Brendan Smith with 2.3 million dollars.  WHAT Af****** JOKE!

 

Its not complicated...Sign all 3 for around 1.5-2 million each...Would put us at 16 forwards 7 defense......trim 2 forwards via buyout and trade with one being Sammy. Voila!

 

edited for clarification...


Edited by Son of a Wing, 05 July 2013 - 02:28 PM.

"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#119 RusDRW

RusDRW

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,352 posts
  • Location:Tampere, FI

Posted 05 July 2013 - 02:33 PM

 

Its not complicated...Sign all 3 for around 1.5-2 million each...Would put us at 16 forwards 7 defense......trim 2 forwards via buyout and trade with one being Sammy. Voila!

 

 

Nyquist is very promising, so we better sign him long term now but it would require more than 1.5-2m.  It is impossible to trade Sammy and buyouting him gives up nothing as this is 35+ contract.


Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

© mikah

#120 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,821 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 05 July 2013 - 02:38 PM

 

Nyquist is very promising, so we better sign him long term now but it would require more than 1.5-2m.  It is impossible to trade Sammy and buyouting him gives up nothing as this is 35+ contract.

 

Yeah plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but I just realized we're past the stage for normal buyouts regardless. Not just Compliance. So trades it is...


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users