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Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot)

Filppula to Tampa 5 yr $5 million

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That's not at all what he's saying. Are you really arguing the point that a players point production ISN'T affected by his linemates? This thread of full of people who didn't like Fil, and didn't want him here. He's playing much better in Tampa, and Z and D is right in saying it's likely mainly due to his linemates. Weiss has been bad here this year, he's been playing with essentially the same linemates Fil was.

Oh, and Nyquist is still a rookie, are you saying that he's as good as playing with Dats or Z on the powerplay? Damn this thread is full of ignorant comments.

Hudler and Franzen had some of their best seasons when playing on a line with Fil... Don't pull that crap.

What seasons were those?

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Franzen was on a better scoring pace than that in 08-09, 09-10, and even last season.

08-09 - spent mostly with Zetterberg, and everyone's favorite: Samuelsson.

09-10 - spent almost entirely with Datsyuk and Holmstrom

12-13 - spent mostly with Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Brunner, and Abdelkader

10-11 was certainly not his best season, though all of his are pretty statistically similar. However, 10-11 was one of Filppula's worst scoring seasons. If anything it appears Franzen carried Fil that season, and not the other way around.

In regards to Hudler...

08-09 - That season Hudler scored 28 of his points (about half of his points) while on the PP. A PP unit that consisted of Zetterberg, Franzen, and Samuelsson, not Filppula.

11-12 - While Hudler and Filppula had career years playing almost entirely with Zetterberg, Z - despite still outscoring both of them - had one of his worst scoring seasons ever. If anything they dragged him down while he made them look good.

Filppula is by no means a worthless player, love him still, but guys like Stamokos & St. Louis > Filppula. He'll benefit more from playing with them, than they will from him.

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That's not at all what he's saying. Are you really arguing the point that a players point production ISN'T affected by his linemates? This thread of full of people who didn't like Fil, and didn't want him here. He's playing much better in Tampa, and Z and D is right in saying it's likely mainly due to his linemates. Weiss has been bad here this year, he's been playing with essentially the same linemates Fil was.

Oh, and Nyquist is still a rookie, are you saying that he's as good as playing with Dats or Z on the powerplay? Damn this thread is full of ignorant comments.

Hudler and Franzen had some of their best seasons when playing on a line with Fil... Don't pull that crap.

To the degree people argue Filppula is affected?

I liked Fil up until last season where he played himself out of a Wings uniform. Spin it all you like, but he had a terrible year and did not warrant a contract.

Also Weiss has not been bad. That's a garbage opinion to support a garbage assertion. And Franzen's production has been steady regardless of his linemates, as well as Hudler's production. Filppula is not a dynamic player who makes them around him better.

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Guest Crymson

Filppula scored the only shootout goal in the second game to win it for the Lightning. And a goal is a goal, it means he and his linemates were doing the right thing. If we were talking about every one of his goals being a deflection off his body, like Cleary in the playoffs, you'd have a point.

A shootout goal isn't a goal. It's a point in a skills competition. It's still useful, certainly, but it can't be compared to goals score in actual play.

I was partially wrong, not completely wrong (I didn't check Dobber Hockey initially because I was unaware the player summaries were no longer a premium feature). That said, it doesn't make my argument any weaker.

Yeah, he did play with Pav and Z a decent amount. But he also had to play with Cleary, Franzen and Bertuzzi a lot as well. And for a player whose role on the team was than it should be given his skills and who was over shadowed, always, but two top tier centers and has had a rocky career, yes, playing on a contract year was likely difficult.

75.4% of even-strength time is not "a decent amount." It's a vast majority. In sum, it seems you're arguing now that it is not enough for Filppula only to play alongside Datsyuk or Zetterberg, superstars who can make anyone around them better and whom the average winger would be thrilled to play with; nay, he needs another exceptional forward on the other wing also if he's to do well. Never mind that Brunner and Franzen managed to substantially outproduce Filppula under nearly the exact same linemate conditions he was in. Never mind that Filppula's best statistical stretch of the season came when he was on a line with Bertuzzi, nor that Bertuzzi has proven his ability to produce effectively alongside Datsyuk. Never mind that you're in the first place incorrectly suggesting that Filppula played center for most of the season.

Whatever the case, your current argument does even fewer favors for Filppula than the last. It suggests that in order to produce, he requires conditions well in excess of those required by the average scorer. It suggests that he cannot make those around him better, but instead relies on others to make him better. These are not ideal traits for a scorer, let alone one expected to be a top-six center on his new team.

The fact is if you examine his prior 2 or 3 seasons before his 66 point season, just like you did with his goals this season, you'd see that his point totals were misleading and he had some pretty dominant stretches.

I don't see your point. In 2009-2010 and 2010-2011, he scored ~40 points despite receiving top-six minutes and ample time on the power play.

And for his injury, you come up completely wrong again. He sprained his MCL mid November and the season started mid January. He was skating for barely a couple weeks before the season started and probably only because the season was starting. I think you can definitely say his knee was bothering him during the season as it was obvious he wasn't skating as well as he normally does.

I was wrong on nothing. Filppula had two months to recover from what tends to be an injury of 6-8 weeks length. More, Filppula's best statistical stretch of the season came in the first quarter of the season, and his worst came in the last quarter of the season. Your speculation on the immediate effects of his injury is therefore in abeyance of the facts. Your evaluation of his skating is odd; few people here seem to have noticed any issues.

See above.

Stop trying so hard. Find a person who thinks that any of the four forwards I mentioned are hard working players shift in shift out (you know, like Filppula).

Again, that argument holds no water and actually speaks ill of Filppula's acumen.

Edited by Crymson

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Guest Crymson

Filppula had 14 points even strength versus Franzen's 19. Yeah, Franzen scored a little more than him but thne look who he played with at even strength versus Filppula: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Brunner and Abdelkader, Filppula. All plays who work hard every single shift. Of course he'll score more in that position. But lets really look at what gave Franzen so many more points than Filppula: the power play. He played more minutes on the powerplay along with playing with Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Brunner whereas Filppula played less minutes with Nyquist, Bertuzzi, Sammeulson and Cleary. You really wonder why he didn't score as much as Franzen? Give me a break.

Franzen spent the lion's share of his PP time screening the goalie. The fact that Filppula managed only three (!) points on the power play in the entirety of the season is vastly less a reflection upon his linemates than it is a testament to his own highly ineffective play.

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Guest Crymson

Yeah let's definitely accept that as fact, because you've been right about everything else so far. #sarcasm

Of all that I said, THIS is what you've chosen to respond to, and attempting to undermine my credibility is the path you've chosen? That's telling...

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Of all that I said, THIS is what you've chosen to respond to, and attempting to undermine my credibility is the path you've chosen? That's telling...

You and I have had our disagreements from time to time, but I didn't think anyone could cause you of "talking out of your ass"

In my experience you usually don't just make s*** up, but that's just me

Edited by Euro_Twins

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2 more goals tonight. I wish he wasn't in our division so I could root for him.

It's horrible what happened to Stamkos, but I'm pretty exited to see what Flip can do as their #1 center. He has to be looking at the best signing of the summer. Right now how has by far the most minutes of any of their forwards tonight. He's got almost 3 more minutes than St Louis who is the next highest.

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Near all last season, Filppula was disrupted the knee injury which he received before the season start while he was playing a Finnish Champions League. I think it was part of the reason why he played a poor last season. At least it was discussed in the Finnish media.



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Guest Playmaker
Near all last season, Filppula was disrupted the knee injury which he received before the season start while he was playing a Finnish Champions League. I think it was part of the reason why he played a poor last season. At least it was discussed in the Finnish media.

He also missed time with a wrist injury. Certain players seem to get a pass with injuries, while others don't. I think the question regarding Filppula and perhaps Hudler to a degree is why isn't Babcock able to get the most out of these players?

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Fil was always going to put up more points in Tampa, why are people so surprised by this? Especially now as the #1 center. He gets more ice time, more offensive line-mates, and a more offensive system. You also have to add in that Fil was saddled with Francine, Bert, and Cleary for a lot of last year. I dont care who you are when you have those boat anchors on your line its going to effect your scoring.

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Fil was always going to put up more points in Tampa, why are people so surprised by this?

This.

Any and all of our players would probably put up more points on the Bolts. Except maybe Bert, because he wouldn't be playing with Z and D, and Cleary, because he wouldn't be playing, period.

And yet, I also feel like half of our guys couldn't play the Bolts' game. Puck-possession is forgiving; you can be incredibly slow and terrible, as long as you're able to make crisp passes and guard the puck a little. Whereas the Bolts play a very fast, aggressive, up-tempo game. You can be old, but you'd better be smart - and fast (see: Marty St. Louis).

Edited by Dabura

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Also, for what it's worth:

I just remembered something an old coach of mine once said. He said, "A hockey player's wrists are not like a bicycle." I didn't understand what he meant at the time (I was really young and just thrilled as s*** to be playing AAA hockey), but I think I do now. Basically, you have to stay on top of that s***. You can't just, like, have surgery on your wrist and sit out for half a season and then come back firing on all cylinders. Doesn't work that way. Needs time.

Point being, I'm still not ready to hate on Weiss. Though I guess it's a little moot, cuz he's injured.

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Guest Playmaker

But when Filppula had a wrist injury and was coming off a knee injury, he just sucked? And Carlo Colaiocovo is like glass, but Weiss isn't, though he seems to be injured frequently?

Since when have the Wings played puck possession?

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But when Filppula had a wrist injury and was coming off a knee injury, he just sucked?

Flip was with the Wings for a very long time. He was a disappointment for almost his entire time here. He wasn't injured/coming off an injury the whole time.

Weiss has been with us for less than twenty games. He's been coming off an injury and surgery.

And Carlo Colaiocovo is like glass, but Weiss isn't, though he seems to be injured frequently?

Carlo Colaiacovo is literally made out of glass. This is a scientific fact. He is the most injury-prone human being ever. Of all time. In history. Forever.

Since when have the Wings played puck possession?

Technically the Wings play grab-ass, but we all call it "puck-possession," because euphemisms are fun.

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But when Filppula had a wrist injury and was coming off a knee injury, he just sucked? And Carlo Colaiocovo is like glass, but Weiss isn't, though he seems to be injured frequently?

Since when have the Wings played puck possession?

I took this post as complete sarcasm.. was it not?

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