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Bobby Ryan to Ottawa


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#81 Richdg

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 01:41 PM

ya, who would want a guy that would be second on our team in goals with 22, 3rd on our team in hits with 104, and is a whopping 2 years older than Nyquist. Not to mention he out played tatar, andersson, sheahan, abby, helm, glendening, miller, pulkinnen, Callahan, etc.......

 

Ryan was having a great year before he got hurt. 21 goals in 59 games. On pace for another 30 goal type of year. then he hurt his groin-sports hernia thing, tried to play through it-not sure why any players tries that it NEVER works. he is a classic high scoring down low power winger. he isn't going to rack up assists, so he isn't going to rack up points. he is going to put the puck in the net. Which he did. yes I would love to still have him. We don't know what the prices was going to be, because Holland didn't push very hard for it. he dexided that Ryan doesn't have a compete level and moved on. yet here we are in the bottom half of the NHL is scoring and a bottom half PP team. Both areas that Ryan and guys like him would help us a ton. 



#82 FlashyG

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 02:11 PM

I wouldn't have minded Ryan if it wouldn't have cost us Nyquist + to get him.

 

I think Nyquist is the better player straight up although that's debatable considering the lack of sample size and the likely unsustainable scoring rate for Gus.

 

Ottawa fans are already regretting the trade so maybe we were right to get out of the Ryan sweepstakes.



#83 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 03:25 PM

I said it before and i'll repeat it again, Ryan would be another Franzen on this team. He floats, plays like he doesn't care for half the season, and would turn into the whipping boy here rapidly because of how streaky he is. I believe 2 seasons ago he went 40 games without a goal, and had something awful like 6 assists in that span. He was kept out of the olympics for a reason, glad we passed and we didn't get another lazy, uninspired player here. 


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#84 Shaman

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 03:54 PM

I wouldn't have minded Ryan if it wouldn't have cost us Nyquist + to get him.

 

I think Nyquist is the better player straight up although that's debatable considering the lack of sample size and the likely unsustainable scoring rate for Gus.

 

Ottawa fans are already regretting the trade so maybe we were right to get out of the Ryan sweepstakes.

 

You can think Nyquist is a better player, but you would be wrong. Ryan has had better seasons when he was much younger than Nyquist. Ryan was hampered by the fact he had a groin injury which is why Nyquist has had better numbers this season, but if I could take either right now on an even swap it would be Ryan 10/10 times.


Edited by Shaman, 11 April 2014 - 03:59 PM.

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#85 Richdg

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 03:58 PM

You mean 2 seasons ago when he had 31 goals, played all 82 games and had 113 hits? Sign me up! That would have led us in goals and been 5th in hits behind Stuart, Abby, Kronwall, and Big E. BTW Ryan had at least 3 goals in every month, with a high of 6 goals in a couple of months. That is very consistent. I think you are thinking about last year were he did struggle, but it did  turn out he was sick and lost a bunch of weight/strength.



#86 Euro_Twins

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 02:06 PM

You mean 2 seasons ago when he had 31 goals, played all 82 games and had 113 hits? Sign me up! That would have led us in goals and been 5th in hits behind Stuart, Abby, Kronwall, and Big E. BTW Ryan had at least 3 goals in every month, with a high of 6 goals in a couple of months. That is very consistent. I think you are thinking about last year were he did struggle, but it did  turn out he was sick and lost a bunch of weight/strength.


Nyquist has 28 goals in 50 something games this year. I don't understand the point

#87 Dabura

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 02:36 PM

I said it before and i'll repeat it again, Ryan would be another Franzen on this team. He floats, plays like he doesn't care for half the season, and would turn into the whipping boy here rapidly because of how streaky he is. I believe 2 seasons ago he went 40 games without a goal, and had something awful like 6 assists in that span. He was kept out of the olympics for a reason, glad we passed and we didn't get another lazy, uninspired player here. 

 

To be fair, he's been playing hurt for most of the season. And, while streaky, he's actually been one of the more consistent scorers in the league in terms of totals. He didn't make Team USA because TRUCULENCE! GRIT! BLUE-COLLAR! TUFFNESS! PHYSICS! And how did that work out for you, Brian?

 

Granted, I'm biased. He's a local product and I got to play against him way back in peewee. And he had an immensely screwed up childhood, making the fact that he went pro at all really remarkable.

 

At the end of the day, he's a pure goal-scorer with fantastic "pedigree" (drafted #2 behind...Crosby, if memory serves). And, being only 27, it's entirely possible that he hasn't played his best hockey yet.


Edited by Dabura, 12 April 2014 - 02:37 PM.

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#88 darkmanx

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 03:21 PM

ya, who would want a guy that would be second on our team in goals with 22, 3rd on our team in hits with 104, and is a whopping 2 years older than Nyquist. Not to mention he out played tatar, andersson, sheahan, abby, helm, glendening, miller, pulkinnen, Callahan, etc.......

 

Ryan was having a great year before he got hurt. 21 goals in 59 games. On pace for another 30 goal type of year. then he hurt his groin-sports hernia thing, tried to play through it-not sure why any players tries that it NEVER works. he is a classic high scoring down low power winger. he isn't going to rack up assists, so he isn't going to rack up points. he is going to put the puck in the net. Which he did. yes I would love to still have him. We don't know what the prices was going to be, because Holland didn't push very hard for it. he dexided that Ryan doesn't have a compete level and moved on. yet here we are in the bottom half of the NHL is scoring and a bottom half PP team. Both areas that Ryan and guys like him would help us a ton. 

 

Who leads the team in goals again ? Who doesn't play a two way game ? Who is older ? Oh but he hits people. A lot of Ottawa fans are regretting that deal as they think he is lazy. Ottawa did overpay for him and we would have too. Ryan is good but not worth Nyquist+.


 

You can think Nyquist is a better player, but you would be wrong. Ryan has had better seasons when he was much younger than Nyquist. Ryan was hampered by the fact he had a groin injury which is why Nyquist has had better numbers this season, but if I could take either right now on an even swap it would be Ryan 10/10 times.

 

Ryan played with Getzlaf and Perry, Nyquist hasn't played with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Remember the guy last year that scored a whopping 2 goal against us in the playoffs. Yeah, thats Bobby Ryan.


Edited by darkmanx, 12 April 2014 - 03:23 PM.


#89 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 03:21 PM

Nyquist has 28 goals in 50 something games this year. I don't understand the point

 

The point is there's a significant different between putting up 28 goals in 56 games one season and being a consistent 30 goal scorer. 

 

Hopefully Nyquist will become one, but now that everyone knows who he is we'll have to wait and see what kind of pace he produces at consistently. 



#90 darkmanx

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 03:42 PM

You mean 2 seasons ago when he had 31 goals, played all 82 games and had 113 hits? Sign me up! That would have led us in goals and been 5th in hits behind Stuart, Abby, Kronwall, and Big E. BTW Ryan had at least 3 goals in every month, with a high of 6 goals in a couple of months. That is very consistent. I think you are thinking about last year were he did struggle, but it did  turn out he was sick and lost a bunch of weight/strength.

 

Tell me the difference between these two players. One get's absolutely criticized every game, the other supposedly would have made us a Stanley Cup contender somehow. They are very comparable players, except the guy that plays for us has a cap hit of 3.9 million and also not including playoffs.

 

I guess Bobby Ryan would get ripped just as much as Franzen since they are comparable players right now. They have averaged 45-48 points per game in the last 7 years.

 

SEASON TEAM GP G A P +/-

2007-2008 Red Wings 72 27 11 40 12

2008-2009 Red Wings 71 34 25 59 21

2009-2010 Red Wings 27 10 11 21 1

2010-2011 Red Wings 76 28 27 55 5

2011-2012 Red Wings 77 29 27 56 23

2012-2013 Red Wings 41 14 17 31 13

2013-2014 Red Wings 54 16 25 41 6

     

     

     45.28571429

     

SEASON TEAM GP G A P +/-

2007-2008 Ducks 28 5 5 10 -1

2008-2009 Ducks 64 31 26 57 13

2009-2010 Ducks 81 35 29 64 9

2010-2011 Ducks 82 34 37 71 15

2011-2012 Ducks 82 31 26 57 1

2012-2013 Ducks 46 11 19 30 3

2013-2014 Senators 70 23 25 48 7

     

     48.14285714


Edited by darkmanx, 12 April 2014 - 03:46 PM.


#91 Euro_Twins

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 04:14 PM

 
The point is there's a significant different between putting up 28 goals in 56 games one season and being a consistent 30 goal scorer. 
 
Hopefully Nyquist will become one, but now that everyone knows who he is we'll have to wait and see what kind of pace he produces at consistently. 


No I get that. But he said Ryan would be our leading goal scorer right now, but nyquist has almost 30 goals this year so I'm not too upset

#92 Richdg

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:37 PM

dark, love how you decided to skip half of franzens career. just for the record, franzen has 180 regular season goals in 567 regular season games. that is .317 per game. Ryan has 170 goals in 448 games, or .379 per game. So in 120 fewer games he has 10 fewer goals. Just to compare, since people like to bring him up.... Perry has 263 goals in 654 games, which comes to .402 per game. The differences are perry scores .023 more goals per game than Ryan while Ryan scores .052 goals per game more than Franzen. In other words, Ryan is much closer to perry than franzen is to ryan.

Now activity and physical play. Hits are a very good judge of that. You can't hit someone if you are standing around. Over the last 5 seasons franzen had 358 hits. Perry had 355 hits in the same time frame. Ryan had 580 hits over the last 5 seasons. That is 38.2% more hits than franzen! That is playing physical. he also only averages about 60 PIM's per year, which is only slightly higher than franzen at about 50 PIM's per year. Perry on the other hand averages in the 100 PIM's range.

Now anyone who thinks Ryan is no more than franzen is flat out lying to themselves. he is much better. It isn't even close tbh. Not to mention the fact he is 7 years younger and Rhed something that would be a nice piece for us to add.

But this all started again, by someone saying Holland was smart for not adding him. No he wasn't. Since we don't know what any trades would have trying involved we can't make that call. if it was Nyquist++ for Ryan, it would be a much more debatable issue. but we don't know. if it was say tatar, sheahan, and alqvist for example, there is no debate. In fact youn could argue and I will, that getting Ryan now might be even more important. The Sens are in fact cash strapped. adding Ryan (yes there are a few others that also fit the bill) now to our young group of smaller forwards would be a major coupe! finding a couple bigger forwards to what we have and have coming would give us a nice young talented and balanced group that we can build around for the next 8-10 years. At RW you could have Ryan, nastasiuk, and Pulk-all 3 Rhed, at C you have Sheahan and AA-need 1 more, and at LW you have Nyquist, mantha, and Jurco. that is a very good foundation.



#93 Richdg

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:06 PM

ET, please read more closely. I very clearly said ryan would be second on our team in goals this year.

 

dark, back to you my friend. since you want to compare franzen with ryan, let me finish it off. Over the last 5 regular seasons Franzen has missed 101 games with injury. Ryan has missed 15 in those same seasons.

I think most would agree that very good/great goal scorers score 30+ goals per year. To do that you need to score 5 goals per month for the 6 months of the season. So a very consistant goal scorer would score 4-6 goals per month? I think most would agree that goal scorers that score 2 or fewer goals per month are having bad months. over the last 5 years Franzen has scored 2 goals or less in 11 months, not counting full months that he missed due to injury. That is 2+ months per year. Ryan on the other hand has had 6 months over the last 5 seasons where he has scored 2 or fewer goals.

On the plus side, over the past 5 season franzen has had 3 different months where he has scored 7 or more goals. But wait...... Ryan has had 6 months over the last 5 seasons where he has scored 7 or more goals in a month.



#94 Euro_Twins

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:11 PM

ET, please read more closely. I very clearly said ryan would be second on our team in goals this year.
 
dark, back to you my friend. since you want to compare franzen with ryan, let me finish it off. Over the last 5 regular seasons Franzen has missed 101 games with injury. Ryan has missed 15 in those same seasons.
I think most would agree that very good/great goal scorers score 30+ goals per year. To do that you need to score 5 goals per month for the 6 months of the season. So a very consistant goal scorer would score 4-6 goals per month? I think most would agree that goal scorers that score 2 or fewer goals per month are having bad months. over the last 5 years Franzen has scored 2 goals or less in 11 months, not counting full months that he missed due to injury. That is 2+ months per year. Ryan on the other hand has had 6 months over the last 5 seasons where he has scored 2 or fewer goals.
On the plus side, over the past 5 season franzen has had 3 different months where he has scored 7 or more goals. But wait...... Ryan has had 6 months over the last 5 seasons where he has scored 7 or more goals in a month.


You're right I misread your post. However I do believe we wouldn't have been better off with him on the team, although I did want him here.

#95 number9

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 02:39 AM

Think we can all agree that Ryan would have been a great addition to this team. I think we can also agree Nyquist is a great addition to this team. And he's free. So yeah.

#96 darkmanx

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 12:59 PM

dark, love how you decided to skip half of franzens career. just for the record, franzen has 180 regular season goals in 567 regular season games. that is .317 per game. Ryan has 170 goals in 448 games, or .379 per game. So in 120 fewer games he has 10 fewer goals. Just to compare, since people like to bring him up.... Perry has 263 goals in 654 games, which comes to .402 per game. The differences are perry scores .023 more goals per game than Ryan while Ryan scores .052 goals per game more than Franzen. In other words, Ryan is much closer to perry than franzen is to ryan.

Now activity and physical play. Hits are a very good judge of that. You can't hit someone if you are standing around. Over the last 5 seasons franzen had 358 hits. Perry had 355 hits in the same time frame. Ryan had 580 hits over the last 5 seasons. That is 38.2% more hits than franzen! That is playing physical. he also only averages about 60 PIM's per year, which is only slightly higher than franzen at about 50 PIM's per year. Perry on the other hand averages in the 100 PIM's range.

Now anyone who thinks Ryan is no more than franzen is flat out lying to themselves. he is much better. It isn't even close tbh. Not to mention the fact he is 7 years younger and Rhed something that would be a nice piece for us to add.

But this all started again, by someone saying Holland was smart for not adding him. No he wasn't. Since we don't know what any trades would have trying involved we can't make that call. if it was Nyquist++ for Ryan, it would be a much more debatable issue. but we don't know. if it was say tatar, sheahan, and alqvist for example, there is no debate. In fact youn could argue and I will, that getting Ryan now might be even more important. The Sens are in fact cash strapped. adding Ryan (yes there are a few others that also fit the bill) now to our young group of smaller forwards would be a major coupe! finding a couple bigger forwards to what we have and have coming would give us a nice young talented and balanced group that we can build around for the next 8-10 years. At RW you could have Ryan, nastasiuk, and Pulk-all 3 Rhed, at C you have Sheahan and AA-need 1 more, and at LW you have Nyquist, mantha, and Jurco. that is a very good foundation.

 

I can't even read this. Why don't you break up your sentences and paragraphs jesus.

 

I will respond to your first line however. I compared Ryan's last 7 seasons, to Franzen last 7 seasons. No matter what way you slice it. Franzen = Ryan.



#97 Richdg

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 04:23 PM

Nice way to dodge the point dark. Numbers don't lie. Ryan is nearly = to Perry, and is much better than Franzen.  


9 yes. Why can't we have both? Everyone acts like we are only allowed a limited number of good players.



#98 darkmanx

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 04:53 PM

Nice way to dodge the point dark. Numbers don't lie. Ryan is nearly = to Perry, and is much better than Franzen.  


9 yes. Why can't we have both? Everyone acts like we are only allowed a limited number of good players.

 

No, anyone that can read that good for them. It is an instant headache.

 

Franzen = Ryan. Stats don't lie. Nyquist will be better also.







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