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Abdelkader Hypothetical


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#41 Shaman

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:12 PM

Facts are Facts. Discrediting them as flukes is a weak argument.

Fact: Cheechoo had 56 goals one season. One season proves nothing, especially when that season shows he was on pace to have 22 points over 82 games and was playing with one of the best players in the world.


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#42 The Axe

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:16 PM

Fact: Cheechoo had 56 goals one season. One season proves nothing, especially when that season shows he was on pace to have 22 points over 82 games and was playing with one of the best players in the world.


I would argue that he only played half the season with Datsyuk. And I'd argue that Z on the other wing instead of Cleary would make a HUGE difference.

#43 Jesusberg

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:25 PM

I think affording Abs a real chance on their wing will be able to determine his real value with them. Like Axe is saying, he didn't even really spend much time on Dats' wing, and Cleary was with them. He's got a better shot and foot speed than Homer did; he just really needs to work on his net-front positioning and balance. The guy's been used as a PK'er and checking line forward, it's kind of hard to just throw him into a new role and expect him to adapt right away. Give the guy some time before you write him off in that role.


Edited by Jesusberg, 07 July 2013 - 03:26 PM.


#44 Shaman

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:31 PM

I would argue that he only played half the season with Datsyuk. And I'd argue that Z on the other wing instead of Cleary would make a HUGE difference.

Well if the playoffs are any indication, he's trash and should only be on the 4th line. 

 

I think affording Abs a real chance on their wing will be able to determine his real value with them. Like Axe is saying, he didn't even really spend much time on Dats' wing, and Cleary was with them. He's got a better shot and foot speed than Homer did; he just really needs to work on his net-front positioning and balance. The guy's been used as a PK'er and checking line forward, it's kind of hard to just throw him into a new role and expect him to adapt right away. Give the guy some time before you write him off in that role.

 

I disagree about his shot, his hands aren't stone, but Homer had a very underrated wrist shot.


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#45 Jesusberg

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:06 PM

Well if the playoffs are any indication, he's trash and should only be on the 4th line. 

 

 

I disagree about his shot, his hands aren't stone, but Homer had a very underrated wrist shot.

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Seriously, looking at this video, tell me he doesn't have 20 goal upside on Pavel's wing. And more than whatever points he puts up, he can create a lot of room for Dats and Z. He's got the ability to make some power moves to the net, he can be a pest and has a better shot than people think. His biggest issue is consistency, which I think will come with more confidence. 

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#46 kipwinger

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:19 PM

I'd say Miller or Eaves have the ability to put up 20 goals on Pav's wing, they've shown some offensive capability even without playing with Pav.  Abdelkader simply hasn't shown that so far in his career.  I'm not saying he isn't useful up there as a thumper, but I think anything like 50 points is expecting too much given what he's shown to this point in his career.  Could he break out all David Clarkson?  Maybe, but nobody saw that coming either.  Playing the odds I'd say max he's capable of what Bertuzzi did two years ago on Pav's wing, 14 goals 24 assists.  And that's on the high end. 

 

As I've already stated, if you look back through his season last year you'll notice that he really wasn't a scoring threat despite leading the team in even strength goals.  3 goals in one game, three others bounced in off his body by other players (two of which came in one game).  So realistically 50% of his production came in two games and a full third came via just standing around in the crease.  Again, kudos to him for getting in front of the net, but it's not like he's tipping in shots or banging in rebounds. 

 

Edit:  I was wrong on two posts in this thread.  Abdelkader's first goal of last season was an empty netter, not a deflection off his body.  Just to be accurate, though I still think my point is valid.


Edited by kipwinger, 07 July 2013 - 04:27 PM.

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#47 darkmanx

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 05:32 PM

I would argue that he only played half the season with Datsyuk. And I'd argue that Z on the other wing instead of Cleary would make a HUGE difference.

 

I would argue Abby has no right to play in the top 6 at all. He can't shoot, can't pass, can't deflect shots... he basically can't do anything right except maybe hit the odd person here and there. He is a 3rd or 4th line player, nothing more.

 

Also I don't even want to see him on a line with D and Z. It's just a waste to have someone play with great players who cannot finish anything.


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#48 blgillett

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 05:45 PM

:eh 
 
Guy scored 3 points in 12 playoff games, playing on the top lines.  He's not an offensive player and has hammer hands.  
 
Babcock needs to put this guy on the lower lines where he belongs.    

What he does give you is a net presence you just have to evaluate how important that is to have
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#49 Nyquistfan14

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 05:57 PM

 
I would argue Abby has no right to play in the top 6 at all. He can't shoot, can't pass, can't deflect shots... he basically can't do anything right except maybe hit the odd person here and there. He is a 3rd or 4th line player, nothing more.
 
Also I don't even want to see him on a line with D and Z. It's just a waste to have someone play with great players who cannot finish anything.


So who would you rather play with them?

#50 Shaman

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:11 PM

So who would you rather play with them?

In this order: Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Bertuzzi, Sammuelson.


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#51 darkmanx

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:15 PM

So who would you rather play with them?

 

I dont know.. Maybe someone that can score more than 5 goals on there own in 48 games ?


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#52 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:27 PM

 

I would argue Abby has no right to play in the top 6 at all. He can't shoot, can't pass, can't deflect shots... he basically can't do anything right except maybe hit the odd person here and there. He is a 3rd or 4th line player, nothing more.

 

Also I don't even want to see him on a line with D and Z. It's just a waste to have someone play with great players who cannot finish anything.

Sounds like Holmstrom to me aside from deflecting shots.  The reason those lunchpail carrying knuckleheads are on those lines is to retrieve the puck and park at the top of the crease.  I'd much rather have the likes of Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, and so on on the top line with Z and Dats, but the nice thing is that Dats and Z are so lethal together that it makes it so you can have a grinder to help them out and have 3 scoring lines on the team.  


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#53 Nyquistfan14

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:29 PM

In this order: Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Bertuzzi, Sammuelson.


I agree that Tatar and nyquist are better players but I also love a third line of Nyq- helm- Tatar it takes pressure of them to feel like they really need to produce, they get great matchups ( playing against bottom 6 players/ bottom pairing d). I can maybe agree with Bert playing there depending on his games after not really playing all year. Jurco isn't close to ready and Sammy haha he's awful. Abby isn't amazing but he fits with pav and z. He does the dirty work just like homer used to do. I can see a z-d-a line being just as or even more dominant then the z-d-h line was.

#54 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:30 PM

I'd rather see Abdelkader in a bottom 6 role banging and crashing. He's got some skill with the puck, but I just don't see him developing into a legitimate top 6 forward. I think he's a more effective grinder.
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#55 wingedominance13

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:33 PM

In this order: Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Bertuzzi, Sammuelson.


Tartar and Nyquist on that line would get overpowered. That would be one of the smallest 1st lines in the NHL. Now junco in two years maybe but he has no track record in the NHL. Bert doesn't bruise anymore and Sammy has always been a floater (in the sense he goes to open ice not the corners).

#56 Nyquistfan14

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:33 PM

Sounds like Holmstrom to me aside from deflecting shots.  The reason those lunchpail carrying knuckleheads are on those lines is to retrieve the puck and park at the top of the crease.  I'd much rather have the likes of Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, and so on on the top line with Z and Dats, but the nice thing is that Dats and Z are so lethal together that it makes it so you can have a grinder to help them out and have 3 scoring lines on the team.  


This is my thinking 100 percent. Abby isn't good enough to just play top 6 and create and produce and belong. But he's the guy that will do the dirty work, retrieve pucks, and unlike homer can move his feet and get in on the forecheck. Abby is a solid player

#57 Shaman

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:34 PM

Tartar and Nyquist on that line would get overpowered. That would be one of the smallest 1st lines in the NHL. Now junco in two years maybe but he has no track record in the NHL. Bert doesn't bruise anymore and Sammy has always been a floater (in the sense he goes to open ice not the corners).

 

This whole small line argument seems flawed, especially with Boston being beaten by a smaller more high powered Chicago offense. 


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#58 Nyquistfan14

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:35 PM

I'd rather see Abdelkader in a bottom 6 role banging and crashing. He's got some skill with the puck, but I just don't see him developing into a legitimate top 6 forward. I think he's a more effective grinder.


Ya but then who do you throw with the twins? While keepin the 2nd line dominant and having the best 3rd line in hockey. Again not saying Abby is a world beater he is just a great fit with the twins

#59 FedorovFan5

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:13 PM

Anyone trashing Abdelkader is being ridiculous.  Is he going to be a great player?  No.  I don't care who's line he's on.  Is he a solid player for us and very valuable member of this team?  Absolutely!  First, he hits more than almost the rest of the team combined.  Without Abby, we have very little physical presence.  He's also a willing fighter.  For being a grit type player, he's a pretty good skater with good speed.  He can definitely help on the offensive side of the things, where i think he will continue to improve.  However, he's not a sniper and never will be.  He's just doesn't have the hands or touch.  I think he's being wasted with Datsyuk b/c Pavel needs a guy he can drop it to who can fire it......a guy like Shanahan or Hull.  Maybe with Weiss we'll see more of Datsyuk and Zetterberg together.  I'd like to see what Abby can do with Helm. 



#60 fat guy in a maltby jersey

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:13 PM

I say 25/30 for 55 pts


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