Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Question about Buying out Samuelsson


  • Please log in to reply
80 replies to this topic

#1 matthewdanna

matthewdanna

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 243 posts
  • Location:San Jose, CA

Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:49 PM

Can't we still buyout Samuelsson with an ordinary buyout once he claims to be healthy again?

 

It would save us $2M in cap space



#2 DeGraa55

DeGraa55

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,054 posts

Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:52 PM

Change the name title. Very misleading.

#3 Behind Enemy Lines in CO

Behind Enemy Lines in CO

    Rookie

  • HoF Booster
  • 142 posts
  • Location:Denver Area

Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:56 PM

In a similar vein, would it be possible to place Sammy on LTIR for next season?  Would that save salary cap space?  And if he were to contest that and want to play, then would he be eligible for a buyout?



#4 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:59 PM

Change the name title. Very misleading.

 

No it's not. Maybe if it said "Bought out Samuelsson".

 

As I understand it, yes we can.


He's either going to be eligible for buyout or LTIR.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi

 

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”


#5 Wingsfan72

Wingsfan72

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 402 posts
  • Location:kalamazoo

Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:00 PM

In a similar vein, would it be possible to place Sammy on LTIR for next season?  Would that save salary cap space?  And if he were to contest that and want to play, then would he be eligible for a buyout?


this was exactly what I was wondering...


 
If I die tell my wife I said, "Hello".

#6 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:11 PM

If Detroit can’t trade players off its roster they could still trim them off when the regular buyout period in August begins, but two thirds of those salaries will count toward the salary cap.

Or players could be waived. If they’re unclaimed off waivers they would be assigned to Grand Rapids, but again, two thirds of the salary would count against the salary cap.

If the Wings were to buy out  Samuelsson, they'd be charged half of his 2/3rds buy-out spread over two seasons (i.e. the Wings would be hit with a $1 million cap charge for 2 seasons as they'd owe Samuelsson $2 million to be paid upon his buy-out).

 

 

Link


Edited by Son of a Wing, 07 July 2013 - 07:12 PM.

"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi

 

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”


#7 Echolalia

Echolalia

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,717 posts
  • Location:fab ferndale

Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:11 PM

My understanding is that the Wings are able to buy out his contract, but they cannot use one of their two compliance buyouts because of a time restriction and Sammy is presently claiming injured. With a regular buyout, Sammy is off the team, but his salary will still count against the cap.
Of course I'm no expert, and there are a handful of members here who can either expand on my response, or correct any information if I'm wrong, which is certainly possible.

#8 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,034 posts

Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:12 PM

Let's go over this one more time. (hopefully)

1. The compliance buyout period for this offseason is OVER. He can not be bought out unless it's a regular buyout which will give no cap relief. Rumor is that he balked at the Wings suggestion he be bought out and threatened to challenge it based on the fact he was injured. (There are apparently guidelines that an injured player cannot be bought out.) Do not have links or facts on this, it is only speculation.

2. Though Samuelsson has claimed injury, it is not a long term chronic injury and he would also likely challenge a LTIR. He has stated publicly that his injury does not require surgery, and the league is closely watching any attempts to circumvent the salary cap. Not a likely scenario, but possible.

3. He is in the second year of a 2 year, 3 million dollar contract that contains a no trade clause. So unless he waives that, trading him is also not an option.

4. Depending on whether it is a NTC or a NMC (No movement) determines whether he can be optioned to GR. This would only free up a roster spot, not give cap space relief.

I hope this finally clears things up.

Edited by Playmaker, 07 July 2013 - 07:14 PM.


#9 whitey

whitey

    Jr. Prospect

  • Member
  • 29 posts

Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:13 PM

The buyout period for this year has expired. Teams can only exercise buyouts between the end of the playoffs and July 1, which is why Sammy's injury situation was critical. By the time the next buyout period begins, Sammy will be UFA.

#10 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

St. Michael (the Red Wing)

    Heavenly With the Puck

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,820 posts
  • Location:Mankato, MN

Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:15 PM

 

 

 

Link

 

 

What a waste of money.

 

2 million could go to some starving children in a third world country or something.

 

Sorry pathetic we signed him in the first place.


Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing), 07 July 2013 - 07:16 PM.


#11 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:21 PM

Let's go over this one more time. (hopefully)

1. The compliance buyout period for this offseason is OVER. He can not be bought out unless it's a regular buyout which will give no cap relief. Rumor is that he balked at the Wings suggestion he be bought out and threatened to challenge it based on the fact he was injured. (There are apparently guidelines that an injured player cannot be bought out.) Do not have links or facts on this, it is only speculation.

I hope this finally clears things up.

 

 

Source? Because you sure do seem confident...

 

This seems to say otherwise...

 

Otherwise, the Macomb Daily's Chuck Pleiness gave his two bucks regarding the Wings' roster crunch up front....

When Detroit came to terms with winger Daniel Alfredsson and center Stephen Weiss on the first day of NHL free agency Friday, it pushed their number of forwards under contract to 14 for next season.

Those numbers didn’t include the two restricted free agents – Gustav Nyquist and Joakim Andersson – who both will be signed sometime this summer to increase the Wings’ forward total to 16. There is also a chance Detroit could still re-sign Daniel Cleary which balloons the forward number to 17.

The roster limit is 23 players which leaves room for 14 forwards, seven defensemen and two goalies.

...

If [Darren] Helm is unable to start the season the Wings could place him on long-term injured reserve and thus create a roster spot there. It would also allow his $1.75 in salary to not count against the salary cap.

The list of possible players to be trimmed from the roster via trade includes Mikael Samuelsson, Justin Tootoo and Patrick Eaves. Eaves’ game is comparable to Drew Miller, who just signed a three-year extension this summer, making him possibly expendable.

Cory Emmerton appears safe on the roster if Helm is unable to regain his pre-injury form to center the Wings’ third line.

....

If Detroit can’t trade players off its roster they could still trim them off when the regular buyout period in August begins, but two thirds of those salaries will count toward the salary cap.

Or players could be waived. If they’re unclaimed off waivers they would be assigned to Grand Rapids, but again, two thirds of the salary would count against the salary cap.

Erm, uh...More like if the Wings were to buy out, say, Samuelsson, they'd be charged half of his 2/3rds buy-out spread over two seasons (i.e. the Wings would be hit with a $1 million cap charge for 2 seasons as they'd owe Samuelsson $2 million to be paid upon his buy-out).

Capgeek explains the "Wade Redden Rule" as follows--confirming Pleiness's math:

BURIED CONTRACTS (Wade Redden Rule)

Money paid to players outside of the NHL counts against the cap.

A one-way contract counts against the cap as follows: cap hit – [ minimum salary + $375,000 ]

Example: If Wade Redden plays in the minors in 2012-13, he counts as follows. $6.5M – [ $525,000 + $375,000 ] = $5.6M

A two-way contract counts as follows: minor-league salary – [ minimum  salary + $375,000 ]

Example: Player A’s two-way contract pays $3M/$1M in 2012-13 and counts as follows in the minors. $1M – [ $525,000 + $375,000 ] = $100,000

So sending Samuelsson and his $3 million salary to the AHL would yield $3 million - [$525,000--the NHL's minimum salary + $375,000] or a $2 million cap hit.

LINK


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi

 

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”


#12 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,340 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:28 PM

Holland needs a Luca Brasi.  

 

 

But Holland is to blame for signing this useless player in the first place.  Just more evidence of Holland's recent stupidity in the free agent market.  


According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#13 GoWings1905

GoWings1905

    Beat Boston!

  • Gold Booster
  • 5,043 posts
  • Location:Near Toledo, OH

Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:41 PM

Not to harp on the issue, but this signing was a disaster from the start. It's a no-win situation at this point. Either Sammy is healthy and not playing well next season -- likely taking a roster spot from someone else in the process. Or he's "injured" and the Wings can't get rid of him and his salary entirely.

Edited by GoWings1905, 07 July 2013 - 07:41 PM.

 
 
15
 
 

 

 

 

 


#14 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,034 posts

Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:42 PM

Source? Because you sure do seem confident...
 
This seems to say otherwise...


I apologize I worded it poorly. I meant to say it doesn't give complete cap relief like the compliance buyout does. The Wings are still on the hook for a good portion of his salary with any of the options.

#15 whitey

whitey

    Jr. Prospect

  • Member
  • 29 posts

Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:09 PM

Source? Because you sure do seem confident...
 
This seems to say otherwise...


http://www.capgeek.com/new-cba/

The buyout period has ended. Moreover, as an over 35 player, the savings from the Redden Rule are minimal for Sammy, but still a savings.

#16 Greatness=PavelDatsyuk

Greatness=PavelDatsyuk

    First Line Center

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 628 posts

Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:10 PM

The buyout period for this year has expired. Teams can only exercise buyouts between the end of the playoffs and July 1, which is why Sammy's injury situation was critical. By the time the next buyout period begins, Sammy will be UFA.

That was for compliance buyouts only. Teams can still use normal buyouts to get rid of players.


Posted Image


#17 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:10 PM

How can this guy hold the organization hostage? Its a joke.

#18 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:16 PM

Just to clarify for people...

 

Ordinary Buyout

- starts in August

- If Bought out Sammy's caphit this year would be 1 million as well as 1 million next season. (2/3rds spread over spread over 2 seasons)

- total of 2 million in savings for this year.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi

 

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”


#19 whitey

whitey

    Jr. Prospect

  • Member
  • 29 posts

Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:17 PM

That was for compliance buyouts only. Teams can still use normal buyouts to get rid of players.


Not in the latest CBA

http://www.capgeek.c...do-buyouts-work

Ordinary and compliance buyouts have the same periods.

#20 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:19 PM

Not in the latest CBA

http://www.capgeek.c...do-buyouts-work

Ordinary and compliance buyouts have the same periods.

 

And it starts again in August for ordinary buyouts.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi

 

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”






Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users