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matthewdanna

Question about Buying out Samuelsson

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Can't we still buyout Samuelsson with an ordinary buyout once he claims to be healthy again?

It would save us $2M in cap space

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Change the name title. Very misleading.

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In a similar vein, would it be possible to place Sammy on LTIR for next season? Would that save salary cap space? And if he were to contest that and want to play, then would he be eligible for a buyout?

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Change the name title. Very misleading.

No it's not. Maybe if it said "Bought out Samuelsson".

As I understand it, yes we can.

He's either going to be eligible for buyout or LTIR.

13dangledangle likes this

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In a similar vein, would it be possible to place Sammy on LTIR for next season? Would that save salary cap space? And if he were to contest that and want to play, then would he be eligible for a buyout?

this was exactly what I was wondering...

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If Detroit can’t trade players off its roster they could still trim them off when the regular buyout period in August begins, but two thirds of those salaries will count toward the salary cap.

Or players could be waived. If they’re unclaimed off waivers they would be assigned to Grand Rapids, but again, two thirds of the salary would count against the salary cap.

If the Wings were to buy out Samuelsson, they'd be charged half of his 2/3rds buy-out spread over two seasons (i.e. the Wings would be hit with a $1 million cap charge for 2 seasons as they'd owe Samuelsson $2 million to be paid upon his buy-out).

Link

Edited by Son of a Wing

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My understanding is that the Wings are able to buy out his contract, but they cannot use one of their two compliance buyouts because of a time restriction and Sammy is presently claiming injured. With a regular buyout, Sammy is off the team, but his salary will still count against the cap.

Of course I'm no expert, and there are a handful of members here who can either expand on my response, or correct any information if I'm wrong, which is certainly possible.

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Let's go over this one more time. (hopefully)

1. The compliance buyout period for this offseason is OVER. He can not be bought out unless it's a regular buyout which will give no cap relief. Rumor is that he balked at the Wings suggestion he be bought out and threatened to challenge it based on the fact he was injured. (There are apparently guidelines that an injured player cannot be bought out.) Do not have links or facts on this, it is only speculation.

2. Though Samuelsson has claimed injury, it is not a long term chronic injury and he would also likely challenge a LTIR. He has stated publicly that his injury does not require surgery, and the league is closely watching any attempts to circumvent the salary cap. Not a likely scenario, but possible.

3. He is in the second year of a 2 year, 3 million dollar contract that contains a no trade clause. So unless he waives that, trading him is also not an option.

4. Depending on whether it is a NTC or a NMC (No movement) determines whether he can be optioned to GR. This would only free up a roster spot, not give cap space relief.

I hope this finally clears things up.

Edited by Playmaker
55fan, P. Marlowe and Echolalia like this

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The buyout period for this year has expired. Teams can only exercise buyouts between the end of the playoffs and July 1, which is why Sammy's injury situation was critical. By the time the next buyout period begins, Sammy will be UFA.

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What a waste of money.

2 million could go to some starving children in a third world country or something.

Sorry pathetic we signed him in the first place.

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Let's go over this one more time. (hopefully)

1. The compliance buyout period for this offseason is OVER. He can not be bought out unless it's a regular buyout which will give no cap relief. Rumor is that he balked at the Wings suggestion he be bought out and threatened to challenge it based on the fact he was injured. (There are apparently guidelines that an injured player cannot be bought out.) Do not have links or facts on this, it is only speculation.

I hope this finally clears things up.

Source? Because you sure do seem confident...

This seems to say otherwise...

Otherwise, the Macomb Daily's Chuck Pleiness gave his two bucks regarding the Wings' roster crunch up front....

When Detroit came to terms with winger Daniel Alfredsson and center Stephen Weiss on the first day of NHL free agency Friday, it pushed their number of forwards under contract to 14 for next season.

Those numbers didn’t include the two restricted free agents – Gustav Nyquist and Joakim Andersson – who both will be signed sometime this summer to increase the Wings’ forward total to 16. There is also a chance Detroit could still re-sign Daniel Cleary which balloons the forward number to 17.

The roster limit is 23 players which leaves room for 14 forwards, seven defensemen and two goalies.

...

If [Darren] Helm is unable to start the season the Wings could place him on long-term injured reserve and thus create a roster spot there. It would also allow his $1.75 in salary to not count against the salary cap.

The list of possible players to be trimmed from the roster via trade includes Mikael Samuelsson, Justin Tootoo and Patrick Eaves. Eaves’ game is comparable to Drew Miller, who just signed a three-year extension this summer, making him possibly expendable.

Cory Emmerton appears safe on the roster if Helm is unable to regain his pre-injury form to center the Wings’ third line.

....

If Detroit can’t trade players off its roster they could still trim them off when the regular buyout period in August begins, but two thirds of those salaries will count toward the salary cap.

Or players could be waived. If they’re unclaimed off waivers they would be assigned to Grand Rapids, but again, two thirds of the salary would count against the salary cap.

Erm, uh...More like if the Wings were to buy out, say, Samuelsson, they'd be charged half of his 2/3rds buy-out spread over two seasons (i.e. the Wings would be hit with a $1 million cap charge for 2 seasons as they'd owe Samuelsson $2 million to be paid upon his buy-out).

Capgeek explains the "Wade Redden Rule" as follows--confirming Pleiness's math:

BURIED CONTRACTS (Wade Redden Rule)

Money paid to players outside of the NHL counts against the cap.

A one-way contract counts against the cap as follows: cap hit – [ minimum salary + $375,000 ]

Example: If Wade Redden plays in the minors in 2012-13, he counts as follows. $6.5M – [ $525,000 + $375,000 ] = $5.6M

A two-way contract counts as follows: minor-league salary – [ minimum salary + $375,000 ]

Example: Player A’s two-way contract pays $3M/$1M in 2012-13 and counts as follows in the minors. $1M – [ $525,000 + $375,000 ] = $100,000

So sending Samuelsson and his $3 million salary to the AHL would yield $3 million - [$525,000--the NHL's minimum salary + $375,000] or a $2 million cap hit.

LINK

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Not to harp on the issue, but this signing was a disaster from the start. It's a no-win situation at this point. Either Sammy is healthy and not playing well next season -- likely taking a roster spot from someone else in the process. Or he's "injured" and the Wings can't get rid of him and his salary entirely.

Edited by GoWings1905
GMRwings1983 likes this

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Source? Because you sure do seem confident...

This seems to say otherwise...

I apologize I worded it poorly. I meant to say it doesn't give complete cap relief like the compliance buyout does. The Wings are still on the hook for a good portion of his salary with any of the options.

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Source? Because you sure do seem confident...

This seems to say otherwise...

http://www.capgeek.com/new-cba/

The buyout period has ended. Moreover, as an over 35 player, the savings from the Redden Rule are minimal for Sammy, but still a savings.

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The buyout period for this year has expired. Teams can only exercise buyouts between the end of the playoffs and July 1, which is why Sammy's injury situation was critical. By the time the next buyout period begins, Sammy will be UFA.

That was for compliance buyouts only. Teams can still use normal buyouts to get rid of players.

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How can this guy hold the organization hostage? Its a joke.

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Just to clarify for people...

Ordinary Buyout

- starts in August

- If Bought out Sammy's caphit this year would be 1 million as well as 1 million next season. (2/3rds spread over spread over 2 seasons)

- total of 2 million in savings for this year.

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Just to clarify, the old CBA had an August buyout period for teams having gone to arbitration with at least one player. It appears to have been eliminated in this CBA, but, even if still in exisltence, would not help the with the Sammy Sit.

And it starts again in August for ordinary buyouts.

Not what the link I provided states, nor the latest CBA

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Just to clarify, the old CBA had an August buyout period for teams having gone to arbitration with at least one player. It appears to have been eliminated in this CBA, but, even if still in exisltence, would not help the with the Sammy Sit.

It's all explained for you in the article I already quoted and linked to.

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Just to clarify for people...

Ordinary Buyout

- starts in August

- If Bought out Sammy's caphit this year would be 1 million as well as 1 million next season. (2/3rds spread over spread over 2 seasons)

- total of 2 million in savings for this year.

This actually isn't that bad.

And if he's sent to GR, they're getting just 1/3 freed up?

Son of a Wing likes this

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What doesn't make sense to me is it appears that he would have gotten more money with the compliance buyout than a regular buyout, so why would he refute the compliance buyout?

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