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Question about Buying out Samuelsson


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#41 sleepwalker

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:22 AM

How can this guy hold the organization hostage? Its a joke.

 

Seriously.  I was not thrilled at all about this signing originally, but now, as bad as it sounds, I kinda hope he gets his bell rung or something enough so we can just be done with this douch and put him on LTIR.



#42 The Axe

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:26 AM

 
Seriously.  I was not thrilled at all about this signing originally, but now, as bad as it sounds, I kinda hope he gets his bell rung or something enough so we can just be done with this douch and put him on LTIR.


How are his teammates going to want him around?

#43 ogreslayer

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:55 AM

 

Saying someone else performed worse does not mean Holland did well. Holland has made some TERRIBLE FA acquisitions in the past. Jason Williams, Sammy, Hatcher, Conklin, Exelby, Calder, Cross, etc.

 

The only FAs there were really any good were Lang, Bert, Rafalski, Hossa, Miller, Eaves, Hasek 2.0.

 

The past 10 years is a big enough sample size to determine that FA, and trades are not Holland's strong points. He's good at managing the cap, drafting, and re-signing.

 

You do realize a number of names you point out as free agent acquisitions were in fact NOT free agent acquisitions?  Calder, Cross, & Lang for example were acquired via trade & Miller was a waiver pick up.



#44 jeff48109

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:01 PM

anyone on here liked the Sammy signing last off season?

 

Only Holland?



#45 dirtydangles

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:17 PM

How are his teammates going to want him around?

This was my first concern. It takes a special kind of person to f*** over a team and still manage to remain friends with the players... I don't see Babs welcoming him back into the starting lineup with open arms either. 


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#46 Crymson

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:24 PM

 

Saying someone else performed worse does not mean Holland did well. Holland has made some TERRIBLE FA acquisitions in the past. Jason Williams, Sammy, Hatcher, Conklin, Exelby, Calder, Cross, etc.

 

The only FAs there were really any good were Lang, Bert, Rafalski, Hossa, Miller, Eaves, Hasek 2.0.

 

The past 10 years is a big enough sample size to determine that FA, and trades are not Holland's strong points. He's good at managing the cap, drafting, and re-signing.

 

Seriously? Hatcher was a bruising defenseman who didn't do poorly, but rather suffered a knee injury early on. Exelby was on a two-way contract and played in the AHL. Calder was acquired via trade, a trade that dumped Williams the first time and helped the Wings get the 1st seed in the 2007 playoffs. Cross was a trade, and was gotten for virtually nothing. Miller was acquired on waivers. Lang was acquired by trade. Bertuzzi was also originally acquired by trade.

If you're going to make these sorts of claims, at least get your information right. And yes, Holland is a better GM than Yzerman. Unlike Steve, he's able to build and maintain a viable team. By any standards whatsoever---barring the "We suck if we don't win the Cup every year" measure---Holland has done brilliantly in his 15 years as GM. There are many people here who are simply so accustomed to success that anything beneath perfection seems terrible.

By comparison, Yzerman received a young team that featured some good defensemen, some excellent forwards, and the best goal-scorer in the world, and then apparently decided that he didn't need to worry about goaltending or defense anymore. The team he inherited made the WCF, then promptly bombed in the next two seasons.



#47 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:45 PM

 

Seriously? Hatcher was a bruising defenseman who didn't do poorly, but rather suffered a knee injury early on. Exelby was on a two-way contract and played in the AHL. Calder was acquired via trade, a trade that dumped Williams the first time and helped the Wings get the 1st seed in the 2007 playoffs. Cross was a trade, and was gotten for virtually nothing. Miller was acquired on waivers. Lang was acquired by trade. Bertuzzi was also originally acquired by trade.

If you're going to make these sorts of claims, at least get your information right. And yes, Holland is a better GM than Yzerman. Unlike Steve, he's able to build and maintain a viable team. By any standards whatsoever---barring the "We suck if we don't win the Cup every year" measure---Holland has done brilliantly in his 15 years as GM. There are many people here who are simply so accustomed to success that anything beneath perfection seems terrible.

By comparison, Yzerman received a young team that featured some good defensemen, some excellent forwards, and the best goal-scorer in the world, and then apparently decided that he didn't need to worry about goaltending or defense anymore. The team he inherited made the WCF, then promptly bombed in the next two seasons.

 

The team Holland inherited won the Stanley Cup in 98.   His first big moves as a GM were to acquire Ulf Samuelsson, Wendel Clark and Bill Ranford.  Chelios I can't give him much credit for because it fell into his lap the way Pronger did the Ducks.  Then in spite of his additions to an already great team, the next 3 seasons the Wings lost in the 2nd round twice and 1st round once.  

 

Was that all Holland's fault?  Nope.  But neither was it all Stevie's in Tampa.  It very much remains to be seen what kind of GM Yzerman will be.  

 

Holland has excelled at making adjustments to keep the great team he inherited at the top of the league.  He's also done a very good job adjusting to the salary cap.  But rebuilding is quite a different thing and while it's early yet, so far his track record is a lot spottier. 



#48 DeGraa55

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:43 PM

anyone on here liked the Sammy signing last off season?
 
Only Holland?


Actually I think some people did like it for his right handed shot and veteran leadership....lol.

#49 Opie

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:46 PM

I was an unashamed Sammy supported.

 

Right up until this last signing.

 

Before this last go 'round I thought he was a responsible and decent player.

 

He did what was asked and played hard.

 

This last signing was baffling to me, I still believe Holland to be the best GM in the league, but the pick up of Bert and Sammy had me scratching my head.


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“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
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#50 evilmrt

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:49 PM


The team Holland inherited won the Stanley Cup in 98. His first big moves as a GM were to acquire Ulf Samuelsson, Wendel Clark and Bill Ranford.


Hahaha oh man, the memories. I remember going down to the Joe as a kid right after that move, and seeing Ranford start against the Ducks. What a disaster for the Wings he was.

My thought at the time was "what sort of dumbass would actually trade for this guy?"

Edited by evilmrt, 08 July 2013 - 02:56 PM.


#51 The Axe

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:55 PM

Hahaha oh man, the memories. I remember going down to the Joe as a kid right after that move, and seeing Radford start against the Ducks. What a disaster for the Wings he was. My thought at the time was "what sort of dumbass would actually trade for this guy?"


We liked our team.

#52 Jesusberg

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:32 PM

Does anyone have any concrete evidence of a regular buyout period in August? I'm not trying to discount any of the links posted, but anything I've seen on legit sources (capgeek, etc) only makes mention of the buyout period that ended on July 4th. I'd love to see Sammy bought out, but I'm not sure if it's possible.



#53 Euro_Twins

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:41 PM

anyone on here liked the Sammy signing last off season?

 

Only Holland?

 

My buddy did, he loves sammy as much as kenny... he still thinks sammy can be great for us, maybe they consulted each other about it? Come to think of it, he loves Cleary as much as kenny does too...



#54 Opie

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:45 PM

 

My buddy did, he loves sammy as much as kenny... he still thinks sammy can be great for us, maybe they consulted each other about it? Come to think of it, he loves Cleary as much as kenny does too...

 

It is ok, you don't have to pretend your friend isn't Holland!

 

LOL!!!

 

Just kidding!


"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#55 Euro_Twins

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:50 PM

 

It is ok, you don't have to pretend your friend isn't Holland!

 

LOL!!!

 

Just kidding!

 

Lmao, I wish, if it was everytime he thought of re-signing cleary I would give him a whack in the back of the head to wake him up



#56 Crymson

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:19 PM

Hahaha oh man, the memories. I remember going down to the Joe as a kid right after that move, and seeing Ranford start against the Ducks. What a disaster for the Wings he was. My thought at the time was "what sort of dumbass would actually trade for this guy?"

 

Ranford was acquired for peanuts in order to back up Osgood; Chris had been lacking a solid backup goaltender for some time at that stage. In the game against Anaheim that you're referring to (which occurred two weeks after he was acquired, not "right after" the trade), Ranford let in two goals on 18 shots and the Wings won 3-2. He posted a .918 save percentage and a 1.98 GAA for the Wings in that regular season. He did not play in the playoffs until Osgood was injured during the final game against Anaheim. Though he struggled in games three and four against Colorado, he held the Avalanche to a combined one goal in the first two games of that series. If you'd like to contemplate how Norm Maracle would have done in that situation, be my guest, but it doesn't take much imagination.

 

In other words, you're either flat-out wrong or you have a very selective memory.


Edited by Crymson, 08 July 2013 - 04:24 PM.


#57 larionov_8

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:34 PM

Does anyone have any concrete evidence of a regular buyout period in August? I'm not trying to discount any of the links posted, but anything I've seen on legit sources (capgeek, etc) only makes mention of the buyout period that ended on July 4th. I'd love to see Sammy bought out, but I'm not sure if it's possible.

 

From what I can understand of the CBA, it does appear that Samuelsson's $3 million/year contract would be eligible for a buyout "outside of the regular period." If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised to see them exercise one if he is healthy (otherwise on LTIR) and to either trade or demote Emmerton.
 

 

11.18 Ordinary Course Buy-Outs Outside the Regular Period. Clubs shall have the right to

exercise Ordinary Course Buy-Outs outside the regular period for Ordinary Course Buy-Outs in

accordance with Paragraph 13©(ii) of the SPC. Each Club shall be limited to no more than

three (3) such Buy-Outs outside the regular period over the term of this Agreement pursuant to

Paragraph 13 of the SPC. However, in the event that a Club has only one salary arbitration

hearing pursuant to Section 12.3(a) in a given League Year, such Club shall not be entitled to

exercise such an Ordinary Course Buy-Out outside the regular period. Moreover, a Club shall

not be entitled to exercise an Ordinary Course Buy-Out outside the regular period for: (i) any

Player who was not on the Club's Reserve List as of the most recent Trade Deadline, or (ii) any

Player with an Averaged Amount less than $2,750,000. The dollar amount of $2,750,000 set

forth in this Section 11.18 shall be increased on an annual basis at the same percentage rate of

annual increase as the Average League Salary, with the first such increase occurring based upon

a comparison of the 2014/15 Average League Salary to the 2013/14 Average League Salary. By

way of example, if the Average League Salary for the 2014/15 League Year has increased by ten

(10) percent from the Average League Salary for the 2013/14 League Year, then the figure of

$2,750,000 stated in Section 11.18, shall be increased by ten (10) percent to $3,025,000.

http://cdn.agilitycm...PA_2013_CBA.pdf

 



#58 Serratoni

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:01 PM

 

Ranford was acquired for peanuts in order to back up Osgood; Chris had been lacking a solid backup goaltender for some time at that stage. In the game against Anaheim that you're referring to (which occurred two weeks after he was acquired, not "right after" the trade), Ranford let in two goals on 18 shots and the Wings won 3-2. He posted a .918 save percentage and a 1.98 GAA for the Wings in that regular season. He did not play in the playoffs until Osgood was injured during the final game against Anaheim. Though he struggled in games three and four against Colorado, he held the Avalanche to a combined one goal in the first two games of that series. If you'd like to contemplate how Norm Maracle would have done in that situation, be my guest, but it doesn't take much imagination.

 

In other words, you're either flat-out wrong or you have a very selective memory.

 

That series against Colorado was heartbreaking. The Wings started off 2-0 and returned home only to lose the next 4 games. In game 6 at the Joe, I remember the crowd standing for a good portion of the game, cheering their team for a magnificent run.



#59 blgillett

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:38 PM

Simply no and we can't send him down well we can but it still counts against the cap
"He was standing there like a cigar store Indian" Mickey Redmond
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#60 joshy207

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:54 PM

with his playing time, we actually siged him for 1 year at 6 million

lol

$1.25M per GAME.  What a bargain...







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