Holland on SiriusXM w/ audio link

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Whatever, because stats are always telling the whole story...

I stand by my point and hoping for Holland to have something upon his sleeve to make the transistion as smooth as possible.

[stillwater 186]

Whatever, because stats are always telling the whole story...

I'm sorry, but if the stats don't tell the "story", what does?

This is beginning to enter the bizzaro world class of arguments.

[Wings4Life19 150]

Whatever, because stats are always telling the whole story... I stand by my point and hoping for Holland to have something upon his sleeve to make the transistion as smooth as possible.

At the end of the season they don't ask how, they ask how many.

[Guest The Axe]

I didnt say we werent going to win. I just said 2 guys are going to manhandle us. They manhandle a lot of teams.

[pucktividi 472]

No like they "manhandled" the Pens. Understand?

esteef

And it was really joy to watch

...but the point is that the Pens played on the tougher and bigger card by adding Iginla,Morrow and Murray at the trade deadline and still got swept by the Bruins.Wouldn't mind to see those players here,but there's no a guarantee the Wings are gonna be a better team.

[ogreslayer 1,069]

And it was really joy to watch

...but the point is that the Pens played on the tougher and bigger card by adding Iginla,Morrow and Murray at the trade deadline and still got swept by the Bruins.Wouldn't mind to see those players here,but there's no a guarantee the Wings are gonna be a better team.

I think everyone should know at this point that it's not the size of your players, it's how you use them. Or is that something that only teams with small players say?

[Guest DeGraa55]

Detroits record vs East last 6 years:

07-08= 7-2-1

08-09= 12-5-1

09-10= 9-6-3

10-11= 12-4-2

11-12= 10-7-1

12-13= N/A

Total Record= 50-24-8

That just happens to be 82 games, and in the cap world 50 wins over a full season usually gets you a division title.

There is a difference between 15 games a season well like thirty including the few physical WC teams and playing like 60 games against more physical teams.

Remember what weber did to z? We HAVE NO ONE to stand up to against stuff like that. The biggest thing with having a fighter is to let guys know our stars are untouchable.

Whatever, because stats are always telling the whole story...

I stand by my point and hoping for Holland to have something upon his sleeve to make the transistion as smooth as possible.

Agreed sometimes the "eyeball test" means a lot. As someone that watches the eastern conference a lot I can see they're tougher and more physical.....then when I need to support it cause many people don't trust the eyeball test. Then I also have facts to back it up. The east hits more. Period end of story.

[FlashyG 1,799]

When I say the EAST is big, I mean it otherwhise I would say Boston is big (which they obviously are).

They're actually both smaller and lighter than the Wings based on their rosters at the end of the season.

There are many teams in the east who play a more physical game than the Wings, but the WIngs aren't really that small or light compared to their new conference.

I also think that size and "toughness" are extremely overrated as far as success in the league is concerned. No matter how big you are, skill is what will bring you success. Sure its better to be bigger and more skilled but if I have to choose one or the other I'd rather be the skilled team.

[FlashyG 1,799]

Toronto - McLaren, Orr, Clarkson, Frazer they are getting into Boston territory in terms of toughness.

Pittsburgh - Engelland, MacIntyre

Devils - Janssen, Bouilton, Clowe

Canadiens - Prust, Parros, Tarnasky

these guys will take run at the Wings stars and that's why some people here want someone who can protect the players, so the mojo of "we like our team" can be fine but also a healthy, not-intimidated team is fine. The game is changing you need some guys, that can deliver monsterous hits and crash the net skill alone doesn't win games nor does toughness alone, balance is key in the NHL nowadays.

So let us hope, that Holland isn't done and does indeed look for some help in that regard. Is it really that hard to understand, to want something who can protect this team against such heavyweights? I don't think so and I really hoped Holland would acknowledge that in his interview instead of talking about how Chicago beat Boston.

If an opposing coach was stupid enough to put any of those guys (except Clarkson) out against Datsyuk or Zetterbergs lines it would be a huge bonus for the Wings. They can attempt to take runs at our guys all they want but they'll have to do it while the linesman is pulling the puck out of their net.

Datsyuk would feast on those guys.

[FlashyG 1,799]

Everyone plays their goons against Montreal, and punks their team out.

Why wouldn't they try that same strategy against us?

Teams like Montreal and Buffalo have been in denial for years about getting bigger in the East, but they're trying to change their philosophies with recent moves. There's something to that. Not like these other GM's are idiots, while Holland is a genius.

Not really.

One team "punked" Montreal out this year and it was the Leafs in 1 game. The Canadiens were also the ones who instigated those fights due to the fact that they were getting killed on the scoreboard.

The best way to deal with a team carrying a goon, is to not carry one yourself, and to have a good powerplay.

The Wings have faced several teams with those types of guys on them and have proven over and over again that you do not need to carry a fighter. Having one on your roster doesn't have any effect at all on teams taking liberty with your players, that will happen in a physical sport regardless...all the fighter does is allow you to get your "pound of flesh" in return.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

It makes me laugh when people talk about the physicality difference between East and West. People make the West sound like a bunch of Justin Beibers skate around slapping each other. Sure the East may have a few more "physical" players but it's not like Western Conference teams are playing no-check hockey. We will be fine in he East...people need to stop worrying.

[Guest Crymson]

Agreed sometimes the "eyeball test" means a lot. As someone that watches the eastern conference a lot I can see they're tougher and more physical.....then when I need to support it cause many people don't trust the eyeball test. Then I also have facts to back it up. The east hits more. Period end of story.

In other words, "This is how things are, because I say so---facts be damned---and if you don't agree, then you're a fool." Why even bother to say such a thing on a discussion forum? I sometimes wonder if you have any association whatsoever with the concept of subjectivity.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Crymson

[AtomicPunk 296]

Manhandle like this?

I'll take it.

On a side note, I don't think I've ever seen Filppula do that.

[Guest Crymson]

Everyone plays their goons against Montreal, and punks their team out.

Why wouldn't they try that same strategy against us?

Teams like Montreal and Buffalo have been in denial for years about getting bigger in the East, but they're trying to change their philosophies with recent moves. There's something to that. Not like these other GM's are idiots, while Holland is a genius.

Not really.

Sigh. I'm not sure why you made that claim despite your clear unfamiliarity with the matter, but rest assured that you are incorrect. And while Montreal's GM seems to be fairly decent, that Darcy Regier is an idiot is an allegation that no Sabres fan will dispute.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Crymson

[Wings4Life19 150]

Clown. There is a difference between 15 games a season well like thirty including the few physical WC teams and playing like 60 games against more physical teams.

Remember what weber did to z? We HAVE NO ONE to stand up to against stuff like that. The biggest thing with having a fighter is to let guys know our stars are untouchable.

The east hits more. Period end of story.

I agree there is a difference from the odd game against the east here and there and playing them potentially 3 times a week, but thats still a 61% winning percentage against eastern teams over a great deal of time.

Your argument doesn't hold up, if the east is so much more physical than the west then why has the west won 5 of the 8 cups since the lockout and 11 of the last 19. Shouldn't the east have just bullied there way to a cup every year.

The last time i checked NHL games are decided by the team that scores the most goals not by who has the most hits, if the rules have changed please let me know.

[Guest Crymson]

For kicks, I did the math on hits (and more!) for the past four seasons.

In the 2013 season, EC teams averaged 1197.6 hits apiece, or 24.95 per game. WC teams averaged 1174.1 hits apiece, or 24.46 per game. The difference? A miniscule .5 hits per game. The Stanley Cup winner was dead last in the league in hits. The Maple Leafs were #1. The Bruins (who seem to be getting the most attention in this thread) ranked in at #10. Of the top ten hitters, five each resided in the EC and WC. Of the top eleven players (four were tied for 5th place) in major penalties, four played in the EC, five played in the WC, and the final two split their time between the two conferences.

In the 2011-2012 season, EC teams averaged 1911.2 hits, or 23.31 per game. WC teams averaged 1821.9 hits, or 22.21 per game. The difference? An unimpressive 1.1 hits per game. The Stanley Cup winner was #2 in the league in hits. The Rangers, who failed to qualify for the playoffs, were #1. The Bruins ranked in at #20. Of the top ten hitters, seven played in the EC and three in the WC. Of the top eleven players (two players were tied for 6th place) in major penalties, five resided in the EC, five played in the WC, and the last split his time between the two.

In the 2010-2011 season, EC teams averaged 1835.9 hits, or 22.39 per game. WC teams averaged 1891.5 hits, or 23.06 per game. The difference? An tiny .69 hits per game, this time in favor of the WC. The Stanley Cup winner was #21 in hits. The Rangers were #1. The Bruins, as mentioned, were #21---two spots below the Wings. Of the top ten hitters, five each played in the EC and WC. Of the top twelve players (three players were tied for 8th place) in major penalties, three played in the EC, and nine resided in the WC.

In the 2009-2010 season, EC teams averaged 1806.7 hits, or 22.03 per game. WC teams averaged 1807.6 hits, or 22.04 per game. The difference? A completely irrelevant .01 hits per game, in favor of the WC. The Stanley Cup winner was #25 in hits. The Stars, who failed to qualify for the playoffs, were #1. The Bruins ranked in at #10, again two spots beneath the Wings. Of the top ten hitters, three resided in the EC and seven in the WC. Of the top ten (no ties in the final place this time) players in major penalties, four played in the EC, five played in the WC, and the last split his time between the two conferences.

For those who would prefer it in table form, here are the per-team averages for each conference:

So there you have it. I hope that these numbers will help to put to rest this talk about the East being an immensely tougher conference. In other news, I can't believe that I just spent 45 minutes on this.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Crymson

[Guest The Axe]

Hits is a lame stat. Franzen records them, and he's never done a real one in his life.

[Guest Crymson]

Hits is a lame stat. Franzen records them, and he's never done a real one in his life.

[Guest The Axe]

One elbow and one hit. Big deal.

[Guest DeGraa55]

I agree there is a difference from the odd game against the east here and there and playing them potentially 3 times a week, but thats still a 61% winning percentage against eastern teams over a great deal of time.

Your argument doesn't hold up, if the east is so much more physical than the west then why has the west won 5 of the 8 cups since the lockout and 11 of the last 19. Shouldn't the east have just bullied there way to a cup every year.

The last time i checked NHL games are decided by the team that scores the most goals not by who has the most hits, if the rules have changed please let me know.

It does hold up. The west wins cups because they generally have more skill and the players don't have as much wear and tear. You will see.

The wings will start off fantastic and slow down a lot as the year goes on.

[amato 3,210]

And it was really joy to watch

...but the point is that the Pens played on the tougher and bigger card by adding Iginla,Morrow and Murray at the trade deadline and still got swept by the Bruins.Wouldn't mind to see those players here,but there's no a guarantee the Wings are gonna be a better team.

Oh the pens? You mean that team with no D, very little depth and shaky playoff goaltending?

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

On a side note, I don't think I've ever seen Filppula do that.

He would pull off that move and be looking for someone to pass to.

[FireCaptain 563]

They do that every year and also in most games.

The wings will start off fantastic and slow down a lot as the year goes on.

[pucktividi 472]

Oh the pens? You mean that team with no D, very little depth and shaky playoff goaltending?

yep,Orpik,Engelland,Murray,Dupuis,Adams,Morrow,Cooke and the rest of the lazy and soft group

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I'm sorry, but if the stats don't tell the "story", what does?

This is beginning to enter the bizzaro world class of arguments.

He said stats don't tell the whole story.

Which they don't because people often draw conclusions out of context that the stats don't actually support.

Dan Cleary was 2nd only to Zetterberg in playoff points. So Cleary is the 2nd best player on the team? Cleary was the 2nd most important player this postseason? Cleary was better than Datsyuk in the playoffs?

While obviously not that extreme of a statement, Detroit's record against the East in the past doesn't mean much to me. It's not a very big sample size, especially considering they didn't play any games against the East this season, and it's a very different thing to be in a division with teams than to play them every once in a while.

Given the roster changes, all new teams they'll be playing much more frequently, but now having less travel I frankly don't know how we'll do against the East. There are some teams that are definitely tougher but that doesn't mean they'll necessarily win games.