Holland on SiriusXM w/ audio link

[Dabura 12,207]

The East is silly. I've lived my whole life here, I know.

You know me. I "hate" our team lots. However, even I have to say: this move to the EC may be the best thing that has ever happened, and will ever happen, to the Detroit Red Wings.

There's a not-entirely-out-of-the-realm-of-possibility chance that we tear this conference a new U-KNOW-WUT right from the get-go - and never look back.

[topshelf14 1]

I think the Wings will be fine in the East. I dislike that they have an additional team in the East compared to the West but as far as toughness is concerned it will not be a problem. The Wings matched up against the more physical teams over the years and typically out skilled them after they took stupid penalties against them. Besides the a central division had teams like the Blues, Predators and BJ's that wanted to kill the Wings but we still dominated them over the years.

Some of you guys need to sack up and stop being sooooo scared!

[Nev 1,085]

On a side note, I don't think I've ever seen Filppula do that.

O RLY?

[stillwater 186]

It does hold up. The west wins cups because they generally have more skill and the players don't have as much wear and tear. You will see.

The wings will start off fantastic and slow down a lot as the year goes on.

What evidence to you have to back up your preposterous claims?

[stillwater 186]

Dan Cleary was 2nd only to Zetterberg in playoff points. So Cleary is the 2nd best player on the team? Cleary was the 2nd most important player this postseason? Cleary was better than Datsyuk in the playoffs?

It would be hard for me to believe that you don't understand the concept of small sample size.

The playoffs was 14 games. Links and tables have been post showing no discernible difference in size, hitting or fighting in the East and West.

Years of stats is a trend, 14 games is dumb luck ...

Edited July 10, 2013 by stillwater

[Guest RedWingsDad]

O RLY?

The two goals are not comparable... Fil received a pass in the zone... Weiss went end to end.

[Wing-in-avs-town 123]

The West has won 7 cups compared to 5 in the East since 2000. Don't really see "toughness" being much of an issue at all.

[beachwing 426]

The Ducks, Blues and Sharks routinely throw the goons at us and we always handle well.

I mentioned in another post that Kronwall may neuter his game a bit if he gets jumped after every clean Kronwalling.

[kipwinger 8,520]

Let the East rack up penalty minutes against us, so long as our powerplay is better than last year I'm ok with it. I'd be more pissed if we responded with similar goonery. This whole debate reminds me of the Pittsburgh/Philly series two years ago. A million penalty minutes, a million fights, and million goals and arguably the worst playoff hockey since the 2005 lockout. Embarrassing. I'll take our "soft euro" team any day rather than watch Scott Hartnell try to act like a bad professional wrestler (and even worse hockey player).

[Guest Crymson]

He said stats don't tell the whole story.

Which they don't because people often draw conclusions out of context that the stats don't actually support.

A full, exhaustive comparison of hit severity between the two conferences would be prohibitively time-consuming. From my own experience as a researcher, and given the total absence of extraneous factors that may cause a difference in average impact force between the two conferences, I feel it is safe to conclude that there would be no significant difference. All of those involved are professional hockey players; there are (obviously) no environmental differences between the conferences that would account for a disparity in impact force; and many (perhaps most) of these players have resided in both conferences throughout their careers. Those with the most influence over the degree of physicality in play are general managers---in player selection---and coaches---in play direction---both of whom see regular turnover, and very many of whom have served in both conferences.

As far as I can tell, the main difference the Red Wings will experience in the East will be far lower cumulative travel mileage.

Let the East rack up penalty minutes against us, so long as our powerplay is better than last year I'm ok with it. I'd be more pissed if we responded with similar goonery. This whole debate reminds me of the Pittsburgh/Philly series two years ago. A million penalty minutes, a million fights, and million goals and arguably the worst playoff hockey since the 2005 lockout. Embarrassing. I'll take our "soft euro" team any day rather than watch Scott Hartnell try to act like a bad professional wrestler (and even worse hockey player).

Penalty minutes are not necessarily an effective measurement of physicality, being that many penalties come from poor decision making, lack of discipline, and breakdowns in defensive coverage.

[stillwater 186]

Yeah, Like Crymson said, it's not like the Eastern coaches, some of whom have coached in the West are telling their Eastern conference players, some of whom have also have played in the West, "look, I want you to hit those guys harder than you did when you played in the West"

[kipwinger 8,520]

A full, exhaustive comparison of hit severity between the two conferences would be prohibitively time-consuming. From my own experience as a researcher, and given the total absence of extraneous factors that may cause a difference in average impact force between the two conferences, I feel it is safe to conclude that there would be no significant difference. All of those involved are professional hockey players; there are (obviously) no environmental differences between the conferences that would account for a disparity in impact force; and many (perhaps most) of these players have resided in both conferences throughout their careers. Those with the most influence over the degree of physicality in play are general managers---in player selection---and coaches---in play direction---both of whom see regular turnover, and very many of whom have served in both conferences.

As far as I can tell, the main difference the Red Wings will experience in the East will be far lower cumulative travel mileage.

Penalty minutes are not necessarily an effective measurement of physicality, being that many penalties come from poor decision making, lack of discipline, and breakdowns in defensive coverage.

I completely agree. All too often though, this "fear the East's physicality" argument boils down to how many penalty minutes are accrued as your previous post clearly pointed out there's no difference in hits or fights. I think when people suggest that our guys will get beat up in the East they're thinking of the dirty stuff. And I couldn't be more delighted if that's the way teams play us all season long. I'd be happy to have an 82 game power play. I'll start worrying when "the East is more physical" means that the East plays a more fast paced, in your face type of game and so far I'm not convinced they do.

[Shaman 713]

#1 most important stat most people miss, who ever has scored the most goals at the end of the game wins. Even if they are out hit 100 to 1.

[esteef 2,679]

The "hit" stat, much like +/-, is a joke to begin with. It's completely subjective, is kept by the home team and is usually biased in their favor. But don't let that hinder your "research".

esteef

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

One team "punked" Montreal out this year and it was the Leafs in 1 game. The Canadiens were also the ones who instigated those fights due to the fact that they were getting killed on the scoreboard.

The best way to deal with a team carrying a goon, is to not carry one yourself, and to have a good powerplay.

The Wings have faced several teams with those types of guys on them and have proven over and over again that you do not need to carry a fighter. Having one on your roster doesn't have any effect at all on teams taking liberty with your players, that will happen in a physical sport regardless...all the fighter does is allow you to get your "pound of flesh" in return.

Ottawa punked them out of the playoffs.

Boston has been punking them for years.

There's no mystery why Montreal got Parros, despite previous attitude from their management that they didn't need to get tougher.

The Ducks, Blues and Sharks routinely throw the goons at us and we always handle well.

I mentioned in another post that Kronwall may neuter his game a bit if he gets jumped after every clean Kronwalling.

The Sharks and Ducks haven't had goons for years.

The Blues have and I've been upset at how guys like Backes and Stewart were given free reign to drill our stars into the boards and start scrums after whistles.

[stillwater 186]

Ottawa punked them out of the playoffs.

Boston has been punking them for years.

There's no mystery why Montreal got Parros, despite previous attitude from their management that they didn't need to get tougher.

The Sharks and Ducks haven't had goons for years.

The Blues have and I've been upset at how guys like Backes and Stewart were given free reign to drill our stars into the boards and start scrums after whistles.

Montreal won 3 of 4 regular season games in 2013. In this decade the Bruins are 12-17 in games vs Montreal.

I remember Parros with the Ducks, don't you.

[stillwater 186]

What is "punked" anyway? Is that like the old TV show where you think one thing is happening, but it's really something completely different that's going on?

If so, sure, that applies here.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Montreal won 3 of 4 regular season games in 2013. In this decade the Bruins are 12-17 in games vs Montreal.

I remember Parros with the Ducks, don't you.

I'm talking about playoffs. Montreal has been physically bullied in the playoffs by the Senators and Bruins in recent memory.

They didn't sign Parros because he could help them score goals or help God (Carey Price) stop shots.

[stillwater 186]

I'm talking about playoffs. Montreal has been physically bullied in the playoffs by the Senators and Bruins in recent memory.

They didn't sign Parros because he could help them score goals or help God (Carey Price) stop shots.

If by "bullying" you mean hurting people for no good reason, then you have it backwards my friend. It was Montreal who started all of the cheap goon nonsense when behind by 5-goals vs Ottawa highlighted by the head-butt, and aggressor penalties PK Subban received for his unjustified attack on Kyle Turris.

So you think Parros will help Montreal in the playoffs?

[Zetts 236]

If by "bullying" you mean hurting people for no good reason, then you have it backwards my friend. It was Montreal who started all of the cheap goon nonsense when behind by 5-goals vs Ottawa highlighted by the head-butt, and aggressor penalties PK Subban received for his unjustified attack on Kyle Turris.

So you think Parros will help Montreal in the playoffs?

Agreed. I'd be willing to bet Parros barely touches the ice in the playoffs.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

If by "bullying" you mean hurting people for no good reason, then you have it backwards my friend. It was Montreal who started all of the cheap goon nonsense when behind by 5-goals vs Ottawa highlighted by the head-butt, and aggressor penalties PK Subban received for his unjustified attack on Kyle Turris.

So you think Parros will help Montreal in the playoffs?

He'll toughen them up in the regular season with his manliness.

But I think he should and will play in the playoffs if they go up against Boston/Ottawa/Toronto, and those teams dress their tough guys against Montreal.

[stillwater 186]

He'll toughen them up in the regular season with his manliness.

Ok, that's one of the strangest sentences I've ever read.

[FireCaptain 563]

...but I bet his mustache does...

...from the bench.

Agreed. I'd be willing to bet Parros barely touches the ice in the playoffs.

[amato 3,210]

Parros does have a pretty impressive 'stache.

[kipwinger 8,520]

The "hit" stat, much like +/-, is a joke to begin with. It's completely subjective, is kept by the home team and is usually biased in their favor. But don't let that hinder your "research".

esteef

Considering all teams play roughly the same amount of home games, wouldn't the subjective bias have essentially no effect?