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Henrik and Pavel

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Now if they could retire gloves then Pavel's would be in the rafters.

Now, that is a really real great idea. Imagine how cool it would be, if there was a pair of outsize hockey gloves hanging up on the rafters, with a #13 on them. IMO, that's way better than having Dats' jersey retired.

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Dats more than likely yes.

Z is borderline.

It wouldn't hurt both their chances if we won the Cup again or 2.

Everyone saying Feds # will not be retired.

IF it happens I hope everyone on here eats crow.

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If Pavel and Henrik keep going at this pace their numbers will be retired. Feds 91 will never be retired.

Nope. 2 years from now Frk will be wearing it.

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Maybe, except there's no such "requirement"

Sid Abel never hit even close to 1,000 points. Different era of course, but exceptions can be made regardless of numbers. Abel certainly deserved to be there.

It's not just about stats or longevity, but also where those names rank in NHL history. If you look at who's up there and compare them to Datsyuk and Zetterberg, you'll see the difference.

I think an exception should be made for Red Kelly, despite lack of longevity, but Ilitch and family seem to disagree. Then again, Ilitch and family had the gall to take Aurie's number down, which is something you don't see very often from other teams.

http://kuklaskorner.com/hockey/comments/ilitch_celebrates_yzerman_desecrates_aurie

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Nope. 2 years from now Frk will be wearing it.

I bet you he won't

Honestly, the ridiculous standards that some Wings fans hold up for number retirement these days, we'd better un-retire Lindsay, Delvecchio and Abel, because they don't qualify. Hell, even Yzerman, he's not all-NHL all-time quality, so he doesn't count either. Just Sawchuk, Howe and Lidstrom it is.

IMO, Datsyuk is a yes. 4 more seasons and he will be ~1050 points, more than Ullman, Lindsay, Fedorov, Abel etc and good for 5th all time in Wings scoring (only Howe, Yzerman, Lidstrom and Delvecchio will have more)....throw in (at least) 3 Selkes, 4 Lady Byngs, 2 Stanley Cups and an incredible human-highlight-reel style of play and I don't see how you can say no.

Zetterberg is going to be borderline. A lot depends on how his health holds up, and what he achieves in the 2nd half of his career. He could easily accumulate 1000+ points, but he might need a bit more silverware.

Fedorov, by any measure should be straight up there.............except for the manner of his departure. That was one reason why I hoped he would come back late in his career, so he could have a rapproachment with the fans/management. Hopefully he'll appear in one of the legends games at the WC to begin his rehabilitation.

Ilitch was reluctant to honor Sparky Anderson at all and he finally gave in....just waited til after he died. I wouldn't be shocked if Fedorov's number was retired. He was just as important to those 3 cups as anyone else was. Plus when he, Vladdy and Lidstrom showed up that was the beginning of their rise to Championships

Edited by RedWingCraig

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It's not ALWAYS about stats. Darren McCarty has 4 Cups and 2 of the biggest goals in modern Wings history (3/26/97 OT winner and 97 Cup winner) and the Lemieux beatdown. He has a place of honor with fans but his number will never be retired.

I agree its not about stats - that's why McCarty, Holmstrom, Draper and Maltby will never be retired. 4 cups each and a bazillion games in red aren't enough for them.

Pav on the other hand has the stats, he has the silverware and he has the longevity. And lets not forget, without that nice Mr Bettman he'd have another 120 games on is CV and be pushing 900 points already.

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I bet you he won't

Ilitch was reluctant to honor Sparky Anderson at all and he finally gave in....just waited til after he died. I wouldn't be shocked if Fedorov's number was retired. He was just as important to those 3 cups as anyone else was. Plus when he, Vladdy and Lidstrom showed up that was the beginning of their rise to Championships

Lets put it this way too, if Fedorov stayed in Detroit, we may have seen 1 or 2 more Stanley Cups between 2002 and 2008. Along with all the other guys we already had, Feds would have kept the Wings more of a dynasty and that 6 year cupless gap would have been less.

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Honestly, the ridiculous standards that some Wings fans hold up for number retirement these days, we'd better un-retire Lindsay, Delvecchio and Abel, because they don't qualify. Hell, even Yzerman, he's not all-NHL all-time quality, so he doesn't count either. Just Sawchuk, Howe and Lidstrom it is.

IMO, Datsyuk is a yes. 4 more seasons and he will be ~1050 points, more than Ullman, Lindsay, Fedorov, Abel etc and good for 5th all time in Wings scoring (only Howe, Yzerman, Lidstrom and Delvecchio will have more)....throw in (at least) 3 Selkes, 4 Lady Byngs, 2 Stanley Cups and an incredible human-highlight-reel style of play and I don't see how you can say no.

Zetterberg is going to be borderline. A lot depends on how his health holds up, and what he achieves in the 2nd half of his career. He could easily accumulate 1000+ points, but he might need a bit more silverware.

Fedorov, by any measure should be straight up there.............except for the manner of his departure. That was one reason why I hoped he would come back late in his career, so he could have a rapproachment with the fans/management. Hopefully he'll appear in one of the legends games at the WC to begin his rehabilitation.

Fedorov had 1179 points...

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Zetterberg is going to be borderline. A lot depends on how his health holds up, and what he achieves in the 2nd half of his career. He could easily accumulate 1000+ points, but he might need a bit more silverware.

.

I'm not sure I'd say he could easily accumulate 1,000+ points, I think that might be a stretch. At the age of 33 (going into next season) he's at 672. I don't think his production is going to increase. Not sure how many more years he'll play either, but I doubt he plays out his full contract.

By comparison, Yzerman had something like 1,400 or so points by age 33 and about 300 or so points post 33.

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should (will) Red Wings retire their numbers? From my opinion it is definite yes as they defined a milestone for the team we are rooting for. From the other side we have Fedorov who contributed as much as Yzerman (13 seasons of pure magic) but left with some bad feelings... What do you think?

I like Fedorov as a player but no way we retire his number he was a selfish arrogant individual who did know how to be a part of a team

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Not to sound like I'm ripping on the OP here, but is this seriously even a question?? Of course both numbers will be retired. Absolutely no doubt about it

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I think Pavel should have his raised but as for Z the verdict is still out my guess is no. You can't retire every good player that comes along or there won't be any numbers left to have a team on the ice

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As much as I like Z and D as Red Wings and hockey players and people...my feeling is, if you're in the rafters @ The Joe, you're a Legend. Someone who has - to sort of quote Babs - left absolutely no doubt. A Steve Yzerman. A Nick Lidstrom.

Would I be shocked if one or both of them ultimately "get raised"? No. But I'd be even less shocked if neither of them got it.


Honestly, though, they'll probably get raised. And it'll be sweet.

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As much as I like Z and D as Red Wings and hockey players and people...my feeling is, if you're in the rafters @ The Joe, you're a Legend. Someone who has - to sort of quote Babs - left absolutely no doubt. A Steve Yzerman. A Nick Lidstrom.

That's exactly it. Datsyuk is no doubt in mind.

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I think what it comes down to is looking at accomplishments overall. Yzerman was the youngest named captain, brought the team a championship for the first time in too long, remained the captain of this team for 20 seasons. He's in the record books amongst the greatest scoring players in NHL history. The cups, the awards, etc.

Lidstrom won the Norris 7 times, won 4 championships, and will go down in history as arguably the greatest defender who ever played in the NHL. His career numbers as a defender are stuff of legend.

Similar arguments may be made for the rest of the players hanging from the rafters, Howe and Sawchuk go without saying, and the list goes on. You can present the argument for just about any team and their players right now, should the Sedins numbers be retired? Should Chara's number be retired? Should Iginlas number be retired in Calgary? Just a few of many examples.

I think it's more like a perfect game pitched in baseball, it's a rarity set aside for the distinguished and legendary, if you begin to hand out retired numbers to the best players of the current generation then those rafters will fill up fast and you start to run out of numbers to hand out to new players. For that reason, I don't believe anyone on the current roster will receive a retired number. I have a love affair for these two, I truly do have an emotional attachment to both and it will break my heart the day they decide to retire, but in light of the honor of getting your number retired from a franchise, I think they will go out solely as phenomenal players within the Red Wings team but nothing past that.

If Pav and Zett get their numbers retired, so should Osgood and the flurry of other names start falling in of who should have been and who hasn't. It must be considered how few have been retired in the long history of the sport and how many players have come and gone during that time, especially for an original 6 team like Detroit.

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Now that I think about it, this depends on who the owners are.

Maybe a new owner decades from now will decide to loosen the strict requirements for retiring Red Wings jerseys. Then, guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Fedorov will get in.

Look how Ilitch came in and took down Aurie's jersey. That took some gall.

You never know what an owner in the future might do.

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if they had won that game 7 in 2009, sure. zetterberg might have had a 2nd consecutive conne smythe.

unfortunately, they choked.

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I would say yes to Datsyuk - though his point totals wouldn't warrant a number being retired, there is no doubt that the hockey world and Detroit as an organization are taking notice to the little things he does that make him arguably the best in the world today. The things they don't have stats for.

Pasha carries that "Chuck Norris" like vibe with him, making it very difficult not to have his number retired.

Simply put, I could not see another Detroit player coming along in the next decade and wearing #13...the shoes are just too big to fill

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Datsyuk is (IMO) exactly the kind of player the Wings retire. The other names in the rafters were guys who embodied what it means to be a Red Wing and i think Pav fits the mold. He handles himself with class and he is respected league-wide. Besides that he has good numbers, some hardware, and he's a gifted player.

Maybe Dats isn't a captain, maybe his numbers aren't as high but 50 years from now when I'm looking back, he's the man I'll remember the most. He's the guy who people will still talk about and say "wow, that guy was something special" and that makes him a future legend in my mind.

Kira, Nev and Z Winged Dangler like this

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Amen to this. He'll be forever remembered as someone special to watch and admire. Not many like him and probably not another one will cross our paths. We should feel blessed.

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