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#21 Nev

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:59 PM

Honestly, the ridiculous standards that some Wings fans hold up for number retirement these days, we'd better un-retire Lindsay, Delvecchio and Abel, because they don't qualify.  Hell, even Yzerman, he's not all-NHL all-time quality, so he doesn't count either.  Just Sawchuk, Howe and Lidstrom it is.

 

IMO, Datsyuk is a yes.  4 more seasons and he will be ~1050 points, more than Ullman, Lindsay, Fedorov, Abel etc and good for 5th all time in Wings scoring (only Howe, Yzerman, Lidstrom and Delvecchio will have more)....throw in (at least) 3 Selkes, 4 Lady Byngs, 2 Stanley Cups and an incredible human-highlight-reel style of play and I don't see how you can say no.

 

Zetterberg is going to be borderline.  A lot depends on how his health holds up, and what he achieves in the 2nd half of his career.  He could easily accumulate 1000+ points, but he might need a bit more silverware.

 

Fedorov, by any measure should be straight up there.............except for the manner of his departure.  That was one reason why I hoped he would come back late in his career, so he could have a rapproachment with the fans/management.  Hopefully he'll appear in one of the legends games at the WC to begin his rehabilitation.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#22 number9

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:02 PM

If Pavel and Henrik keep going at this pace their numbers will be retired. Feds 91 will never be retired.



#23 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:34 PM

Honestly, the ridiculous standards that some Wings fans hold up for number retirement these days, we'd better un-retire Lindsay, Delvecchio and Abel, because they don't qualify.  Hell, even Yzerman, he's not all-NHL all-time quality, so he doesn't count either.  Just Sawchuk, Howe and Lidstrom it is.

 

IMO, Datsyuk is a yes.  4 more seasons and he will be ~1050 points, more than Ullman, Lindsay, Fedorov, Abel etc and good for 5th all time in Wings scoring (only Howe, Yzerman, Lidstrom and Delvecchio will have more)....throw in (at least) 3 Selkes, 4 Lady Byngs, 2 Stanley Cups and an incredible human-highlight-reel style of play and I don't see how you can say no.

 

Zetterberg is going to be borderline.  A lot depends on how his health holds up, and what he achieves in the 2nd half of his career.  He could easily accumulate 1000+ points, but he might need a bit more silverware.

 

Fedorov, by any measure should be straight up there.............except for the manner of his departure.  That was one reason why I hoped he would come back late in his career, so he could have a rapproachment with the fans/management.  Hopefully he'll appear in one of the legends games at the WC to begin his rehabilitation.

It's not ALWAYS about stats. Darren McCarty has 4 Cups and 2 of the biggest goals in modern Wings history (3/26/97 OT winner and 97 Cup winner) and the Lemieux beatdown. He has a place of honor with fans but his number will never be retired. 

 

This is where Pavel and Hank currently sit. Honored but not legendary. 

 

Now if they could retire gloves then Pavel's would be in the rafters. 


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#24 The Axe

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:41 PM

If Pavel and Henrik keep going at this pace their numbers will be retired. Feds 91 will never be retired.


They will hit the 3 requirements, I think.

1000 pts minimum.
1 Stanley Cup minimum.
15 years service minimum.

#25 GMRwings1983

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:14 PM

They will hit the 3 requirements, I think.

1000 pts minimum.
1 Stanley Cup minimum.
15 years service minimum.

 

Maybe, except there's no such "requirement" 

 

Sid Abel never hit even close to 1,000 points.  Different era of course, but exceptions can be made regardless of numbers.  Abel certainly deserved to be there.  

 

It's not just about stats or longevity, but also where those names rank in NHL history.  If you look at who's up there and compare them to Datsyuk and Zetterberg, you'll see the difference.  

 

 

I think an exception should be made for Red Kelly, despite lack of longevity, but Ilitch and family seem to disagree.  Then again, Ilitch and family had the gall to take Aurie's number down, which is something you don't see very often from other teams.


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#26 sibiriak

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:30 PM

Now if they could retire gloves then Pavel's would be in the rafters. 

Now, that is a really real great idea. Imagine how cool it would be, if there was a pair of outsize hockey gloves hanging up on the rafters, with a #13 on them. IMO, that's way better than having Dats' jersey retired.

#27 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:26 PM

Dats more than likely yes. 

 

Z is borderline.

 

It wouldn't hurt both their chances if we won the Cup again or 2. 

 

Everyone saying Feds # will not be retired. 

 

IF it happens I hope everyone on here eats crow. 



#28 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:39 PM

If Pavel and Henrik keep going at this pace their numbers will be retired. Feds 91 will never be retired.

Nope.  2 years from now Frk will be wearing it.


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#29 Playmaker

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:19 PM

 

Maybe, except there's no such "requirement" 

 

Sid Abel never hit even close to 1,000 points.  Different era of course, but exceptions can be made regardless of numbers.  Abel certainly deserved to be there.  

 

It's not just about stats or longevity, but also where those names rank in NHL history.  If you look at who's up there and compare them to Datsyuk and Zetterberg, you'll see the difference.  

 

 

I think an exception should be made for Red Kelly, despite lack of longevity, but Ilitch and family seem to disagree.  Then again, Ilitch and family had the gall to take Aurie's number down, which is something you don't see very often from other teams.

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#30 RedWingCraig

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:23 PM

Nope.  2 years from now Frk will be wearing it.

I bet you he won't


Honestly, the ridiculous standards that some Wings fans hold up for number retirement these days, we'd better un-retire Lindsay, Delvecchio and Abel, because they don't qualify.  Hell, even Yzerman, he's not all-NHL all-time quality, so he doesn't count either.  Just Sawchuk, Howe and Lidstrom it is.

 

IMO, Datsyuk is a yes.  4 more seasons and he will be ~1050 points, more than Ullman, Lindsay, Fedorov, Abel etc and good for 5th all time in Wings scoring (only Howe, Yzerman, Lidstrom and Delvecchio will have more)....throw in (at least) 3 Selkes, 4 Lady Byngs, 2 Stanley Cups and an incredible human-highlight-reel style of play and I don't see how you can say no.

 

Zetterberg is going to be borderline.  A lot depends on how his health holds up, and what he achieves in the 2nd half of his career.  He could easily accumulate 1000+ points, but he might need a bit more silverware.

 

Fedorov, by any measure should be straight up there.............except for the manner of his departure.  That was one reason why I hoped he would come back late in his career, so he could have a rapproachment with the fans/management.  Hopefully he'll appear in one of the legends games at the WC to begin his rehabilitation.

Ilitch was reluctant to honor Sparky Anderson at all and he finally gave in....just waited til after he died. I wouldn't be shocked if Fedorov's number was retired. He was just as important to those 3 cups as anyone else was. Plus when he, Vladdy and Lidstrom showed up that was the beginning of their rise to Championships


Edited by RedWingCraig, 14 July 2013 - 07:25 PM.


#31 Nev

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:34 AM

It's not ALWAYS about stats. Darren McCarty has 4 Cups and 2 of the biggest goals in modern Wings history (3/26/97 OT winner and 97 Cup winner) and the Lemieux beatdown. He has a place of honor with fans but his number will never be retired. 

 

I agree its not about stats - that's why McCarty, Holmstrom, Draper and Maltby will never be retired.  4 cups each and a bazillion games in red aren't enough for them.

 

Pav on the other hand has the stats, he has the silverware and he has the longevity.  And lets not forget, without that nice Mr Bettman he'd have another 120 games on is CV and be pushing 900 points already.


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#32 Copenhagen848

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:14 AM

No, no, and no.

As already mentioned, they are great, but not legends.

#33 55fan

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:33 AM

They aren't done yet.  Ask me again in a decade or so.



#34 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:30 AM

No way.
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#35 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:30 PM

I bet you he won't


Ilitch was reluctant to honor Sparky Anderson at all and he finally gave in....just waited til after he died. I wouldn't be shocked if Fedorov's number was retired. He was just as important to those 3 cups as anyone else was. Plus when he, Vladdy and Lidstrom showed up that was the beginning of their rise to Championships

Lets put it this way too, if Fedorov stayed in Detroit, we may have seen 1 or 2 more Stanley Cups between 2002 and 2008.  Along with all the other guys we already had, Feds would have kept the Wings more of a dynasty and that 6 year cupless gap would have been less. 


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#36 Euro_Twins

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:15 PM

Honestly, the ridiculous standards that some Wings fans hold up for number retirement these days, we'd better un-retire Lindsay, Delvecchio and Abel, because they don't qualify.  Hell, even Yzerman, he's not all-NHL all-time quality, so he doesn't count either.  Just Sawchuk, Howe and Lidstrom it is.

 

IMO, Datsyuk is a yes.  4 more seasons and he will be ~1050 points, more than Ullman, Lindsay, Fedorov, Abel etc and good for 5th all time in Wings scoring (only Howe, Yzerman, Lidstrom and Delvecchio will have more)....throw in (at least) 3 Selkes, 4 Lady Byngs, 2 Stanley Cups and an incredible human-highlight-reel style of play and I don't see how you can say no.

 

Zetterberg is going to be borderline.  A lot depends on how his health holds up, and what he achieves in the 2nd half of his career.  He could easily accumulate 1000+ points, but he might need a bit more silverware.

 

Fedorov, by any measure should be straight up there.............except for the manner of his departure.  That was one reason why I hoped he would come back late in his career, so he could have a rapproachment with the fans/management.  Hopefully he'll appear in one of the legends games at the WC to begin his rehabilitation.

 

Fedorov had 1179 points...



#37 stillwater

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

 

Fedorov had 1179 points...

 

Including 225 with other teams.



#38 toby91_ca

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:54 PM

 

Zetterberg is going to be borderline.  A lot depends on how his health holds up, and what he achieves in the 2nd half of his career.  He could easily accumulate 1000+ points, but he might need a bit more silverware.

 

.

I'm not sure I'd say he could easily accumulate 1,000+ points, I think that might be a stretch.  At the age of 33 (going into next season) he's at 672.  I don't think his production is going to increase.  Not sure how many more years he'll play either, but I doubt he plays out his full contract.

 

By comparison, Yzerman had something like 1,400 or so points by age 33 and about 300 or so points post 33.



#39 GMRwings1983

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:14 PM

 

Pretty classless by Mike Ilitch.  

 

He needs to realize this franchise existed before he and his big money got there, and respect its history a little.  


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#40 blgillett

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:50 PM

should (will) Red Wings retire their numbers? From my opinion it is definite yes as they defined a milestone for the team we are rooting for. From the other side we have Fedorov who contributed as much as Yzerman (13 seasons of pure magic) but left with some bad feelings... What do you think?

I like Fedorov as a player but no way we retire his number he was a selfish arrogant individual who did know how to be a part of a team
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