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Red Wings popularity in Detroit/Michigan


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#61 frankgrimes

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:51 AM

What's wrong with hockey being a white sport? Every sport has a main audience, hockey survived just fine by being a niche sport for a small target group and places with special weather conditions. The problems of the past were trying to put hockey into markets which don't support it. Another problem is the NHL is so focused on supporting non fans and questionable destinations by sacrificing people who are already fans and keeping great owners from icing the best possible roster. The Wings even with a great team might not be as popular as the lions but I think they would at least be a bigger draw then they are right now. As a fan I really hope the move to the east will help in terms of sellouts and regain some of the lost magic,

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#62 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:10 AM

What's wrong with hockey being a white sport? Every sport has a main audience, hockey survived just fine by being a niche sport for a small target group and places with special weather conditions. The problems of the past were trying to put hockey into markets which don't support it.


Are you serious?

And in case you didn't know, Detroit didn't support the Wings for a lot of years. Should they have lost their team?

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#63 frankgrimes

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:23 AM

Are you serious?

And in case you didn't know, Detroit didn't support the Wings for a lot of years. Should they have lost their team?


Yes I am serious their is a difference between no support and not caring at all. For example some NHL teams are having ticket prices like 10 dollar a game plus free food parking and all the other stuff, the attention rate is still weak what does that tell? Simple people in certain cities are not interested in the NHL. It's the same in other sports too not every market can and will support certain sports. Big cities like New York are the exception not the norm.

I am not saying these fans should lose their teams but holding back teams like the Wings and others because of some weak markets can't be a solution either. And yes, I think 30 teams is too much for the NHL would be prefer around 16.

No other major sport is sacrificing so much fans for non fans like the NHL does and like it or not, that's also a reason why the Wings aren't as popular as they once were which is sad.

Edited by frankgrimes, 29 July 2013 - 11:26 AM.

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#64 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:52 AM

Yeah, they're not winning Cups. To make the game better you need the best possible athletes playing the sport. To do that you need to expand the base of available players, which means expanding the game to new markets and giving them time. I was talking to someone from Dallas about how the game had grown and he said there used to never be kids playing hockey there. Now a lot of kids play. That can only be good for the game unless you're some xenophobic bigoted dinosaur. Fans complain hockey doesn't get respect or coverage then complain about attempts to grow the game. Can't have it both ways.

Edited by DickieDunn, 29 July 2013 - 11:54 AM.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#65 StormJH1

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:53 AM

 

No other major sport is sacrificing so much fans for non fans like the NHL does and like it or not, that's also a reason why the Wings aren't as popular as they once were which is sad.

 

I mean, okay, we can find some truth with the first part of the statement.  Maybe.  But that doesn't explain why the sport has had an explosion in popularity in other U.S. markets.  It's only perceived as a "decline" here in Detroit because the sport was huge here while it sucked as an event in so many other markets. 

 

I agree that Bettman and Company have been guilty of catering too much to the non-fans in terms of the shootout and things that affect the actual product, but I also seriously doubt that "real" hockey fans stop watching because of that.  We just complain about it, present company included.



#66 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:01 PM

What's wrong with hockey being a white sport? ,


This is one of the more ignorant things I've read in awhile.

Edited by DickieDunn, 29 July 2013 - 12:02 PM.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#67 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:14 PM

It does, but if the NHL puts some effort into getting kids playing and can change the perception that it's a "white sport" I think most of the southern markets could be solid. Last year 4 of the bottom teams in percentage of tickets sold were older markets, NJ, St. Louis, the Isles, and Avs. Colorado being down is hilarious the way they bragged about their attendance right after they got a ready made contending team from day 1.


Agreed, if Seth Jones turns out to be as good as he's supposed to be I think having him and pk being higher tier defensemen that the league can market will help bridge the racial divide, even if only because sports center will want to show how Popeye Jones' son is doing, its still good press.

And as a long time wings fan, its hard not to get a little satisfaction out of seeing the avs so low.

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter, 29 July 2013 - 12:17 PM.


#68 frankgrimes

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:23 PM

 

I mean, okay, we can find some truth with the first part of the statement.  Maybe.  But that doesn't explain why the sport has had an explosion in popularity in other U.S. markets.  It's only perceived as a "decline" here in Detroit because the sport was huge here while it sucked as an event in so many other markets. 

 

I agree that Bettman and Company have been guilty of catering too much to the non-fans in terms of the shootout and things that affect the actual product, but I also seriously doubt that "real" hockey fans stop watching because of that.  We just complain about it, present company included.

 

Explosion? Looking at some arenas there are often lots of empty seats and it's not because they have high ticket prices - like I mentioned some are basically giving them away - maybe just maybe not enough people are interested in the NHL. I don't know about the ratings but I think the lockout combined with the catering to non-fans has had some sort of impact of course nobody will ever know how big/small because the NHL would never publish such stats.

 

As for Avalanche I couldn't care less about them, the only chance for a renewed rivalry would be playing against them again, which won't happen for a long time because the Wings would need to come out of the east and the Avs be the winners of the West and personally speaking I'd love having Landeskog or Duchene on the Wings.


kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..

<< Win it for Mr. Hockey !


#69 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:26 PM

What's wrong with hockey being a white sport? Every sport has a main audience, hockey survived just fine by being a niche sport for a small target group and places with special weather conditions. The problems of the past were trying to put hockey into markets which don't support it. Another problem is the NHL is so focused on supporting non fans and questionable destinations by sacrificing people who are already fans and keeping great owners from icing the best possible roster.The Wings even with a great team might not be as popular as the lions but I think they would at least be a bigger draw then they are right now. As a fan I really hope the move to the east will help in terms of sellouts and regain some of the lost magic,


Comments like that are the reason hockey is viewed as a racist sport in general.
You have To grow the market, to where were not talking about which teams will have to be relocated, or all the revenue sharing that helped cause the second lockout in the last two cba discussions.

More people into the sport, more funding for the sport, at all levels.
Especially the u.s. and I don't know about you but I'd live to have more elite talent come from the states for gold medals and a point of pride.

#70 frankgrimes

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:34 PM

Comments like that are the reason hockey is viewed as a racist sport in general.
You have To grow the market, to where were not talking about which teams will have to be relocated, or all the revenue sharing that helped cause the second lockout in the last two cba discussions.

More people into the sport, more funding for the sport, at all levels.
Especially the u.s. and I don't know about you but I'd live to have more elite talent come from the states for gold medals and a point of pride.

 

Why should I care how others are viewing the sport? I don't like soccer but I am sure soccer fans couldn't care less how non-fans are viewing their sport and to me it is the same with the NHL, personally I care about one thing:

 

seeing the best possible Wings roster out on the ice and another cup for the best owner in all of sports

 

If people are viewing the sport as <insert whatever> fine, couldn't care less. Also a market can only grow for so long at some point you can't grow it anymore. As a fan its not my job to talk about growing the game, expanding it or anything else I have picked the Wings and I what them to do well if others are having trouble and what not too bad for them but not Wings related so their problem.

 

Personally speaking, I think as hockey fans sometimes more pride in supporting a "more" niche sport would be a good thing. Sometimes if things aren't broken, it is better to not fix them..


kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..

<< Win it for Mr. Hockey !


#71 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:40 PM

How can you call a system that has taken 150+ games of datsyuks prime from us not broken?

#72 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:43 PM

If you want to put it ins Wings centric point of view, let's say somewhere in Florida there is a 12 year old kid kid very similar to Calvin Johnson, only instead of football or basketball, he started playing hockey because TB has a team. 6 years from now he's 6'5" and has the frame to fill out to around 240 pounds with all that speed and athletic ability, and Detroit ends up drafting him. He never would have played hockey if if hadn't been for NHL expansion, and now Detroit has a future superstar. If the NHL expands their player base that type of scenario will happen. Maybe not with Detroit drafting him, but a star player from one of those terrible markets.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#73 frankgrimes

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:48 PM

How can you call a system that has taken 150+ games of datsyuks prime from us not broken?

 

My bad I will rephrase it:

 

I think the system the NHL had pre 2005 was not broken, so no need to fix it. The lockout has taken a lot of good things from Wingsfans and I am sure this is also a reason why the popularity is declining. Most people don't like to watch millionaires fighting billionaires in tough economic times.

 

The good thing is, this is also a chance for the new Wings core to get some fans back and at least have the city more interested in the DRW once again.


kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..

<< Win it for Mr. Hockey !


#74 vladdy16

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 02:19 PM

How can you call a system that has taken 150+ games of datsyuks prime from us not broken?

That system wasn't in place until major expansion and pandering to the lowest common denominator took effect.  Lock outs were a direct result of expansion, as is the salary cap and revenue sharing.  It's negatively affected the sport just as much as positively, if not moreso.  I was a much happier hockey fan 10 years ago.  I find myself watching fewer games outside of ones the Wings aren't playing.  And I'm not the only one - many fans I know just don't feel the same as they used to, and it's having a direct effect on the bottom line.  I'll bet dollars to donuts Wings fans spend a lot more on merchandise than Columbus, Nashville, Florida and Phoenix fans, or at least used to before 2006.


Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

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#75 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 05:13 PM

So you were good with the NHL 10 years ago. When there were 30 NHL teams, all of which are playing where they're currently located except for Winnipeg. The difference is the Wings were a dominant team then and now they aren't.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#76 vladdy16

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 05:16 PM

I was happier with the sport in general.  You can just table the bandwagon fan implication - I was a fan long before Steve Yzerman came along.


Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

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#77 The Axe

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 05:45 PM

So you were good with the NHL 10 years ago. When there were 30 NHL teams, all of which are playing where they're currently located except for Winnipeg. The difference is the Wings were a dominant team then and now they aren't.


Youre wrong. We are entering into a new era of dominant Wings teams. We are strong at D and G, and good at offense.

#78 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:43 PM

So you were good with the NHL 10 years ago. When there were 30 NHL teams, all of which are playing where they're currently located except for Winnipeg. The difference is the Wings were a dominant team then and now they aren't.

Youre wrong. We are entering into a new era of dominant Wings teams. We are strong at D and G, and good at offense.


If players develop like they should.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#79 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:54 PM

I was happier with the sport in general.  You can just table the bandwagon fan implication - I was a fan long before Steve Yzerman came along.


OK. But the differences between then and now are the cap, Atlanta/Winnipeg, and how long it had been since the Wings' last Cup. The expansion had already happened. So it sounds like you're not enjoying it as much because of parity or the fact that the team is in a bit of a down period. That or it's the makeup of the team.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#80 kipwinger

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:44 PM

 

My bad I will rephrase it:

 

I think the system the NHL had pre 2005 was not broken, so no need to fix it. The lockout has taken a lot of good things from Wingsfans and I am sure this is also a reason why the popularity is declining. Most people don't like to watch millionaires fighting billionaires in tough economic times.

 

The good thing is, this is also a chance for the new Wings core to get some fans back and at least have the city more interested in the DRW once again.

 

The popularity isn't declining.  You're arguing against something that's not even factually correct.  Both ratings AND profits were up in the NHL again this year, as they have been every year since the 2005 lockout.  Type any combination of the words "NHL", "Lockout", "Ratings", and "Profits" into google and you'll be hit smack in the face with the truth. 

 

The fact that you believe there's something wrong with the game doesn't make it so.  In fact, it's more popular than ever. 


Edited by kipwinger, 29 July 2013 - 10:45 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 






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