Rule 48: not working as planned.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Did Shanahan screw this job up on his own or was he "coached"?

I'm unable to find the article again but I had read somewhere that when he was first hired he came out guns blazing with suspensions. After a few months of it though GM's, the NHLPA and people within the NHL were angry at him for the level of suspensions and he got a talking too. Ever since then it went back to the wheel of justice.

It may be me wanting to believe it because I've always like Shanny, but it sounds like they got to him.

I think the league is telling him not to suspend stars unless he has to and to not suspend if there's no injury. When he was hired he talked like an attempt to injure was going to bring the hammer regardless of who you are or the result of the hit. Now it's back to the flow chart where who hits, who gets hit, and if someone I'd hurt are considered more than the hit itself.

[Guest The Axe]

Remember Malkin in finals 2009? NOTHING.

[chrisdetroit 189]

The increase in concussions is the result of several different factors. When the league returned from the 2005 lockout, they made several rule changes to make the game more entertaining and some of them resulted in more collisions and more violent collisions. They need to roll back some of those rules:

1. Two line passes were allowed. This creates more speed through the neutral zone.

2. The trapezoid rule was added that keep the goalies from playing pucks in the corner which results in opposing players racing into the corner for the puck.

3. There was a crack-down on interference. You can no longer hold-up a player racing to the goal.

If the league want to reduce the number of concussions and injuries in general, they need to change these rule back.

Trying to enforce rules against hits to the head as we have seen doesn't work. The rule is to subjective.

Night and day difference between a NASCAR helmet and a hockey helmet. The technology exists.

LOL. Try skating up and down the ice wearing a NASCAR Hemet.

[WingsAlways 486]

Remember Malkin in finals 2009? NOTHING.

Same with Weber

[kipwinger 8,496]

The increase in concussions is the result of several different factors. When the league returned from the 2005 lockout, they made several rule changes to make the game more entertaining and some of them resulted in more collisions and more violent collisions. They need to roll back some of those rules:

1. Two line passes were allowed. This creates more speed through the neutral zone.

2. The trapezoid rule was added that keep the goalies from playing pucks in the corner which results in opposing players racing into the corner for the puck.

3. There was a crack-down on interference. You can no longer hold-up a player racing to the goal.

If the league want to reduce the number of concussions and injuries in general, they need to change these rule back.

Trying to enforce rules against hits to the head as we have seen doesn't work. The rule is to subjective.

LOL. Try skating up and down the ice wearing a NASCAR Hemet.

You've totally nailed it. Guys aren't getting head injuries because the "rats" are taking cheap shots. Guys are getting head injuries because the game is 1,000 times faster and therefore they're getting hit a whole lot harder than that (mass times acceleration or something like that). They wanted a faster game and this is one of the negative side effects. On the whole though, I feel like the game is better for it. At the end of the day it's a contact sport and guys are just going to have to learn to play a safer game than they used to. I don't think suspending is the answer any more than I think getting rid of the instigator rule is. Suspensions don't factor into a guy's mind when he's moving that fast, is largely encouraged by his coaches to hit first and ask questions later, and must commit to contact in a split second. Likewise, gooning it up doesn't work because most of these injuries aren't the result of cheap shots, and so the only thing dressing more tough guys is going to do is cost you games. The only way to stop it is to slow down the game, and in doing so you'll lose the speed that is almost entirely responsible for ensuring that NHL hockey is the most intense, physically demanding sport on earth.

[kook_10 1,705]

Personally I think the solution is going back to one ref. The only way hockey players really learn is from some lumber behind the play.

[T.Low 1,011]

The increase in concussions is the result of several different factors. When the league returned from the 2005 lockout, they made several rule changes to make the game more entertaining and some of them resulted in more collisions and more violent collisions. They need to roll back some of those rules:

1. Two line passes were allowed. This creates more speed through the neutral zone.

2. The trapezoid rule was added that keep the goalies from playing pucks in the corner which results in opposing players racing into the corner for the puck.

3. There was a crack-down on interference. You can no longer hold-up a player racing to the goal.

If the league want to reduce the number of concussions and injuries in general, they need to change these rule back.

Trying to enforce rules against hits to the head as we have seen doesn't work. The rule is to subjective.

LOL. Try skating up and down the ice wearing a NASCAR Hemet.

Try skating up and down the ice with a concussion.

The speed, velocity, and collision impact are all greater than ever and tweaking the rule book will not have a significant effect. Why has the head gear not evolved? I'm not saying you need to wear a NASCAR helmet or a military helmet. It was a simple illustration that the technology exists to develop a helmet that will both increase concussion protection and still be light weight and hockey-able, and aesthetically pleasing.

LOL Change the rules back. How'd that work out for Lindros and LaFontaine and all the others?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

The increase in concussions is the result of several different factors. When the league returned from the 2005 lockout, they made several rule changes to make the game more entertaining and some of them resulted in more collisions and more violent collisions. They need to roll back some of those rules:

1. Two line passes were allowed. This creates more speed through the neutral zone.

2. The trapezoid rule was added that keep the goalies from playing pucks in the corner which results in opposing players racing into the corner for the puck.

3. There was a crack-down on interference. You can no longer hold-up a player racing to the goal.

If the league want to reduce the number of concussions and injuries in general, they need to change these rule back.

Trying to enforce rules against hits to the head as we have seen doesn't work. The rule is to subjective.

LOL. Try skating up and down the ice wearing a NASCAR Hemet.

Try skating up and down the ice with a concussion.

The speed, velocity, and collision impact are all greater than ever and tweaking the rule book will not have a significant effect. Why has the head gear not evolved? I'm not saying you need to wear a NASCAR helmet or a military helmet. It was a simple illustration that the technology exists to develop a helmet that will both increase concussion protection and still be light weight and hockey-able, and aesthetically pleasing.

LOL Change the rules back. How'd that work out for Lindros and LaFontaine and all the others?

They have better helmets. Players won't make the switch.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Try skating up and down the ice with a concussion.

The speed, velocity, and collision impact are all greater than ever and tweaking the rule book will not have a significant effect. Why has the head gear not evolved? I'm not saying you need to wear a NASCAR helmet or a military helmet. It was a simple illustration that the technology exists to develop a helmet that will both increase concussion protection and still be light weight and hockey-able, and aesthetically pleasing.

LOL Change the rules back. How'd that work out for Lindros and LaFontaine and all the others?

Ask Lindros or LaFontaine, they probably don't even remember......their names.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

They have better helmets. Players won't make the switch.

They do?

I know about the Messier project, if that's what you're referring to, but as far as I know there's still no concrete evidence that shows any helmet will prevent concussions. They' claim it "provides maximum protection from high impact linear forces." That doesn't necessarily mean they do any better against concussions, and more to the point "maximum protection" is a pretty meaningless phrase.

If they start getting the data that shows it actually helps, I think the players would come around. Especially because the Messier project is now owned by Bauer.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

I think the league is telling him not to suspend stars unless he has to and to not suspend if there's no injury. When he was hired he talked like an attempt to injure was going to bring the hammer regardless of who you are or the result of the hit. Now it's back to the flow chart where who hits, who gets hit, and if someone I'd hurt are considered more than the hit itself.

If Crosby was hit from behind into the boards it would be a much worse suspension then if say Dan Cleary was hit from behind

[DickieDunn 2,571]

They have better helmets. Players won't make the switch.

They do?

I know about the Messier project, if that's what you're referring to, but as far as I know there's still no concrete evidence that shows any helmet will prevent concussions. They' claim it "provides maximum protection from high impact linear forces." That doesn't necessarily mean they do any better against concussions, and more to the point "maximum protection" is a pretty meaningless phrase.

If they start getting the data that shows it actually helps, I think the players would come around. Especially because the Messier project is now owned by Bauer.

Where did I say better helmets eliminate concussions? I said there are better ones out there. The only way to eliminate concussions is to make it illegal to touch another player

[kipwinger 8,496]

If Crosby was hit from behind into the boards it would be a much worse suspension then if say Dan Cleary was hit from behind

More baseless Crosby bashing. If you recall Crosby WAS hit from behind, into the boards, AND injured on the play. You'll recall he missed about a full year of hockey because of it. Viktor Hedman did it. And he wasn't suspended on the play. Neither was David Steckel when he "blindsided" Crosby and injured him. People keep saying "if it happened to Crosby the NHL would sing a different tune". Well it has, and they haven't.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Where did I say better helmets eliminate concussions? I said there are better ones out there. The only way to eliminate concussions is to make it illegal to touch another player

You didn't, but the post you responded to and bulk of the conversation of this thread is regarding concussions.

I figured that by "better" helmets you meant better regarding concussion prevention.

[kipwinger 8,496]

Where did I say better helmets eliminate concussions? I said there are better ones out there. The only way to eliminate concussions is to make it illegal to touch another player

Better in what regard then? They look flashier? More aerodynamic?

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

More baseless Crosby bashing. If you recall Crosby WAS hit from behind, into the boards, AND injured on the play. You'll recall he missed about a full year of hockey because of it. Viktor Hedman did it. And he wasn't suspended on the play. Neither was David Steckel when he "blindsided" Crosby and injured him. People keep saying "if it happened to Crosby the NHL would sing a different tune". Well it has, and they haven't.

Steckel didn't blindside Crosby. They were both looking away from where they were skating. Steckel is just 5 inches taller, hence Crosby's head hit shoulder. Maybe a bit off topic, not that it matters around here, but that one needed correcting. And Hedman braced him into the glass, they just hit a stantion. Crosby was injured on the Steckel hit and from repeated hard hits. If you're a smaller player like Crosby and you're getting hit by guys that are 6'3 all the time, your head gets rattled whether it's the primary point of contact or not. I'm Crosby's size, I know full well.

[kipwinger 8,496]

Steckel didn't blindside Crosby. They were both looking away from where they were skating. Steckel is just 5 inches taller, hence Crosby's head hit shoulder. Maybe a bit off topic, not that it matters around here, but that one needed correcting. And Hedman braced him into the glass, they just hit a stantion. Crosby was injured on the Steckel hit and from repeated hard hits. If you're a smaller player like Crosby and you're getting hit by guys that are 6'3 all the time, your head gets rattled whether it's the primary point of contact or not. I'm Crosby's size, I know full well.

Agreed. When guys get hit clean, whether it's Crosby or anyone else, then there's no suspension on the play. Which is the point I was trying to make. Lots of people around LGW seem to believe that there's some sort of bias in favor of marquee players, and there isn't. Everybody is just as susceptible to suspension as everyone else, as the 2013 suspensions to Duncan Keith, Corey Perry, Joffrey Lupul, Taylor Hall, and Alex Edler seem to indicate.

I'm tired of this old "well if it happened to 'so and so' then there would/wouldn't be a suspension" bulls***. It's simply not true. Star players get suspended all the time, ask Ovechkin. Furthermore, just because you hit a star player hard doesn't mean you'll be suspended, ask Steckel and Hedman.

It's just a line of b.s. that dummies keep repeating to make themselves feel relevant.

[Guest The Axe]

Agreed. When guys get hit clean, whether it's Crosby or anyone else, then there's no suspension on the play. Which is the point I was trying to make. Lots of people around LGW seem to believe that there's some sort of bias in favor of marquee players, and there isn't. Everybody is just as susceptible to suspension as everyone else, as the 2013 suspensions to Duncan Keith, Corey Perry, Joffrey Lupul, Taylor Hall, and Alex Edler seem to indicate.

I'm tired of this old "well if it happened to 'so and so' then there would/wouldn't be a suspension" bulls***. It's simply not true. Star players get suspended all the time, ask Ovechkin. Furthermore, just because you hit a star player hard doesn't mean you'll be suspended, ask Steckel and Hedman.

It's just a line of b.s. that dummies keep repeating to make themselves feel relevant.

Tortorella?

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

More baseless Crosby bashing. If you recall Crosby WAS hit from behind, into the boards, AND injured on the play. You'll recall he missed about a full year of hockey because of it. Viktor Hedman did it. And he wasn't suspended on the play. Neither was David Steckel when he "blindsided" Crosby and injured him. People keep saying "if it happened to Crosby the NHL would sing a different tune". Well it has, and they haven't.

It wasn't so much about bashing him as much as I like to, as I was stating that players are more likely to be suspended if the hit is on a high profile player. Although as you stated that isn't always the case, just more often than not.

[kipwinger 8,496]

Tortorella?

Exactly. Irrelevant dummy.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

As long as the nhl is punishing the result and not the intention plus having double standards, nothing is going to change. If you are playing for one of Bettmans teams you can do everything (even cut the achillies of a great defenseman) , if not the nhl will lay down the banhammer immediately.

[kipwinger 8,496]

As long as the nhl is punishing the result and not the intention plus having double standards, nothing is going to change. If you are playing for one of Bettmans teams you can do everything (even cut the achillies of a great defenseman) , if not the nhl will lay down the banhammer immediately.

Who are Bettman's teams again? I'm having a hard time keeping all of these conspiracy theories straight.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Try skating up and down the ice with a concussion.

The speed, velocity, and collision impact are all greater than ever and tweaking the rule book will not have a significant effect. Why has the head gear not evolved? I'm not saying you need to wear a NASCAR helmet or a military helmet. It was a simple illustration that the technology exists to develop a helmet that will both increase concussion protection and still be light weight and hockey-able, and aesthetically pleasing.

LOL Change the rules back. How'd that work out for Lindros and LaFontaine and all the others?

Tweaking the rule book will not help? huh? You don't think that slowing down the game will reduce concussions?

As far as Lindros and Lafontaine, I never said that slowing down the game would eliminate ALL concussions. I don't think anybody believes that.

If such a helmet exists, why aren't the players wearing them? My guess is that they either don't exist or the players don't like them. If it was as simple as wearing a different helmet, they would already be doing that.

Middle school science tells us the E=mv^2. The energy from a collision is a function of velocity squared. Changing the velocity of an impact has a large effect on the energy expended.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Where did I say better helmets eliminate concussions? I said there are better ones out there. The only way to eliminate concussions is to make it illegal to touch another player

Better in what regard then? They look flashier? More aerodynamic?

Better in that they're designed to reduce the risk of head injury but they look bulkier and fit tighter so guys won't wear them. That isn't eliminating them though

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

I would not be surprised at all if total consussions actually decreased and it's just that the undetected concussions decreased that much more, which makes it appear as though concussions increased.....if you follow what I'm saying

.

It'll take years to get a solid reading of the new rules, consistent diagnoses will help set the new standard when they revisit the the numbers.

Before they basically had to get knocked unconscious for them to do a full concussion work up, now if you get hit high in the shoulders and your head jerks a little you're in the quiet room for 15 mins without fail.

So you have a more than valid point, the answer just won't be definitive for a few more years with the same standards of testing.

Edited July 29, 2013 by jimmyemeryhunter