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Rule 48: not working as planned.


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#21 T.Low

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:46 PM

Night and day difference between a NASCAR helmet and a hockey helmet. The technology exists.

#22 jollymania

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 10:33 PM

There haven't been that many illegal checks lately and very few of them have been causing concussions. The diagnosis for a concussion in the NHL is very broad right now and many players will get them from legal plays. I think players and organizations are also faking head injuries, especially when players are already playing injured.


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#23 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:47 AM

Did Shanahan screw this job up on his own or was he "coached"?


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#24 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:22 AM

Did Shanahan screw this job up on his own or was he "coached"?

 

I'm unable to find the article again but I had read somewhere that when he was first hired he came out guns blazing with suspensions.  After a few months of it though GM's, the  NHLPA and people within the NHL were angry at him for the level of suspensions and he got a talking too.  Ever since then it went back to the wheel of justice. 

 

It may be me wanting to believe it because I've always like Shanny, but it sounds like they got to him. 



#25 55fan

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:53 AM

 

I'm unable to find the article again but I had read somewhere that when he was first hired he came out guns blazing with suspensions.  After a few months of it though GM's, the  NHLPA and people within the NHL were angry at him for the level of suspensions and he got a talking too.  Ever since then it went back to the wheel of justice. 

 

It may be me wanting to believe it because I've always like Shanny, but it sounds like they got to him. 

I remember reading that somewhere too.

The gist of it was that he needed to back off because one of the owners/GM's/coaches was upset that he had lost so many guys/important guys/whatever due to suspensions.

 

I also remember that it was one of those "sources that speak on conditions of anonymity" type of things, so who knows how reliable it was. 

 

It could be fact, but I read it on the internet, so the usual grains of salt need to be applied.



#26 DickieDunn

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:55 AM


Did Shanahan screw this job up on his own or was he "coached"?


 
I'm unable to find the article again but I had read somewhere that when he was first hired he came out guns blazing with suspensions.  After a few months of it though GM's, the  NHLPA and people within the NHL were angry at him for the level of suspensions and he got a talking too.  Ever since then it went back to the wheel of justice. 
 
It may be me wanting to believe it because I've always like Shanny, but it sounds like they got to him. 


I think the league is telling him not to suspend stars unless he has to and to not suspend if there's no injury. When he was hired he talked like an attempt to injure was going to bring the hammer regardless of who you are or the result of the hit. Now it's back to the flow chart where who hits, who gets hit, and if someone I'd hurt are considered more than the hit itself.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#27 The Axe

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:21 PM

Remember Malkin in finals 2009? NOTHING.

#28 chrisdetroit

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:49 PM

The increase in concussions is the result of several different factors.  When the league returned from the 2005 lockout, they made several rule changes to make the game more entertaining and some of them resulted in more collisions and more violent collisions.  They need to roll back some of those rules:

 

1.  Two line passes were allowed.  This creates more speed through the neutral zone.

 

2.  The trapezoid rule was added that keep the goalies from playing pucks in the corner which results in opposing players racing into the corner for the puck.

 

3.  There was a crack-down on interference.  You can no longer hold-up a player racing to the goal.

 

If the league want to reduce the number of concussions and injuries in general, they need to change these rule back.

 

Trying to enforce rules against hits to the head as we have seen doesn't work.  The rule is to subjective.


Night and day difference between a NASCAR helmet and a hockey helmet. The technology exists.

LOL.  Try skating up and down the ice wearing a NASCAR Hemet.


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#29 WingsAlways

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:51 PM

Remember Malkin in finals 2009? NOTHING.

 

Same with Weber


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#30 kipwinger

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 08:37 PM

The increase in concussions is the result of several different factors.  When the league returned from the 2005 lockout, they made several rule changes to make the game more entertaining and some of them resulted in more collisions and more violent collisions.  They need to roll back some of those rules:

 

1.  Two line passes were allowed.  This creates more speed through the neutral zone.

 

2.  The trapezoid rule was added that keep the goalies from playing pucks in the corner which results in opposing players racing into the corner for the puck.

 

3.  There was a crack-down on interference.  You can no longer hold-up a player racing to the goal.

 

If the league want to reduce the number of concussions and injuries in general, they need to change these rule back.

 

Trying to enforce rules against hits to the head as we have seen doesn't work.  The rule is to subjective.


LOL.  Try skating up and down the ice wearing a NASCAR Hemet.

 

You've totally nailed it.  Guys aren't getting head injuries because the "rats" are taking cheap shots.  Guys are getting head injuries because the game is 1,000 times faster and therefore they're getting hit a whole lot harder than that (mass times acceleration or something like that).  They wanted a faster game and this is one of the negative side effects.  On the whole though, I feel like the game is better for it.  At the end of the day it's a contact sport and guys are just going to have to learn to play a safer game than they used to.  I don't think suspending is the answer any more than I think getting rid of the instigator rule is.  Suspensions don't factor into a guy's mind when he's moving that fast, is largely encouraged by his coaches to hit first and ask questions later, and must commit to contact in a split second.  Likewise, gooning it up doesn't work because most of these injuries aren't the result of cheap shots, and so the only thing dressing more tough guys is going to do is cost you games.  The only way to stop it is to slow down the game, and in doing so you'll lose the speed that is almost entirely responsible for ensuring that NHL hockey is the most intense, physically demanding sport on earth. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#31 kook_10

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 11:37 AM

Personally I think the solution is going back to one ref.  The only way hockey players really learn is from some lumber behind the play.



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#32 T.Low

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 12:17 PM

The increase in concussions is the result of several different factors.  When the league returned from the 2005 lockout, they made several rule changes to make the game more entertaining and some of them resulted in more collisions and more violent collisions.  They need to roll back some of those rules:

 

1.  Two line passes were allowed.  This creates more speed through the neutral zone.

 

2.  The trapezoid rule was added that keep the goalies from playing pucks in the corner which results in opposing players racing into the corner for the puck.

 

3.  There was a crack-down on interference.  You can no longer hold-up a player racing to the goal.

 

If the league want to reduce the number of concussions and injuries in general, they need to change these rule back.

 

Trying to enforce rules against hits to the head as we have seen doesn't work.  The rule is to subjective.


LOL.  Try skating up and down the ice wearing a NASCAR Hemet.

 

Try skating up and down the ice with a concussion.

 

The speed, velocity, and collision impact are all greater than ever and tweaking the rule book will not have a significant effect.  Why has the head gear not evolved?  I'm not saying you need to wear a NASCAR helmet or a military helmet.  It was a simple illustration that the technology exists to develop a helmet that will both increase concussion protection and still be light weight and hockey-able, and aesthetically pleasing.

 

LOL Change the rules back. How'd that work out for Lindros and LaFontaine and all the others?



#33 DickieDunn

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 12:29 PM


The increase in concussions is the result of several different factors.  When the league returned from the 2005 lockout, they made several rule changes to make the game more entertaining and some of them resulted in more collisions and more violent collisions.  They need to roll back some of those rules:
 
1.  Two line passes were allowed.  This creates more speed through the neutral zone.
 
2.  The trapezoid rule was added that keep the goalies from playing pucks in the corner which results in opposing players racing into the corner for the puck.
 
3.  There was a crack-down on interference.  You can no longer hold-up a player racing to the goal.
 
If the league want to reduce the number of concussions and injuries in general, they need to change these rule back.
 
Trying to enforce rules against hits to the head as we have seen doesn't work.  The rule is to subjective.
LOL.  Try skating up and down the ice wearing a NASCAR Hemet.


 
Try skating up and down the ice with a concussion.
 
The speed, velocity, and collision impact are all greater than ever and tweaking the rule book will not have a significant effect.  Why has the head gear not evolved?  I'm not saying you need to wear a NASCAR helmet or a military helmet.  It was a simple illustration that the technology exists to develop a helmet that will both increase concussion protection and still be light weight and hockey-able, and aesthetically pleasing.
 
LOL Change the rules back. How'd that work out for Lindros and LaFontaine and all the others?


They have better helmets. Players won't make the switch.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#34 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:05 PM

 

Try skating up and down the ice with a concussion.

 

The speed, velocity, and collision impact are all greater than ever and tweaking the rule book will not have a significant effect.  Why has the head gear not evolved?  I'm not saying you need to wear a NASCAR helmet or a military helmet.  It was a simple illustration that the technology exists to develop a helmet that will both increase concussion protection and still be light weight and hockey-able, and aesthetically pleasing.

 

LOL Change the rules back. How'd that work out for Lindros and LaFontaine and all the others?

 Ask Lindros or LaFontaine, they probably don't even remember......their names. 


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#35 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:25 PM

They have better helmets. Players won't make the switch.

 

They do? 

 

I know about the Messier project, if that's what you're referring to, but as far as I know there's still no concrete evidence that shows any helmet will prevent concussions.  They' claim it "provides maximum protection from high impact linear forces."  That doesn't necessarily mean they do any better against concussions, and more to the point "maximum protection" is a pretty meaningless phrase. 

 

If they start getting the data that shows it actually helps, I think the players would come around.  Especially because the Messier project is now owned by Bauer. 



#36 Euro_Twins

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:45 PM

I think the league is telling him not to suspend stars unless he has to and to not suspend if there's no injury. When he was hired he talked like an attempt to injure was going to bring the hammer regardless of who you are or the result of the hit. Now it's back to the flow chart where who hits, who gets hit, and if someone I'd hurt are considered more than the hit itself.


If Crosby was hit from behind into the boards it would be a much worse suspension then if say Dan Cleary was hit from behind

#37 DickieDunn

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 02:34 PM


They have better helmets. Players won't make the switch.


 
They do? 
 
I know about the Messier project, if that's what you're referring to, but as far as I know there's still no concrete evidence that shows any helmet will prevent concussions.  They' claim it "provides maximum protection from high impact linear forces."  That doesn't necessarily mean they do any better against concussions, and more to the point "maximum protection" is a pretty meaningless phrase. 
 
If they start getting the data that shows it actually helps, I think the players would come around.  Especially because the Messier project is now owned by Bauer. 


Where did I say better helmets eliminate concussions? I said there are better ones out there. The only way to eliminate concussions is to make it illegal to touch another player

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#38 kipwinger

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 03:02 PM

If Crosby was hit from behind into the boards it would be a much worse suspension then if say Dan Cleary was hit from behind

 

More baseless Crosby bashing.  If you recall Crosby WAS hit from behind, into the boards, AND injured on the play.  You'll recall he missed about a full year of hockey because of it.  Viktor Hedman did it.  And he wasn't suspended on the play.  Neither was David Steckel when he "blindsided" Crosby and injured him.  People keep saying "if it happened to Crosby the NHL would sing a different tune".  Well it has, and they haven't. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#39 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 05:09 PM

Where did I say better helmets eliminate concussions? I said there are better ones out there. The only way to eliminate concussions is to make it illegal to touch another player

 

You didn't, but the post you responded to and bulk of the conversation of this thread is regarding concussions.  

 

I figured that by "better" helmets you meant better regarding concussion prevention. 



#40 kipwinger

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 07:24 PM

Where did I say better helmets eliminate concussions? I said there are better ones out there. The only way to eliminate concussions is to make it illegal to touch another player

 

Better in what regard then?  They look flashier?  More aerodynamic? 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 






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