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Rule 48: not working as planned.


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#41 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:07 PM

 

More baseless Crosby bashing.  If you recall Crosby WAS hit from behind, into the boards, AND injured on the play.  You'll recall he missed about a full year of hockey because of it.  Viktor Hedman did it.  And he wasn't suspended on the play.  Neither was David Steckel when he "blindsided" Crosby and injured him.  People keep saying "if it happened to Crosby the NHL would sing a different tune".  Well it has, and they haven't. 

Steckel didn't blindside Crosby.  They were both looking away from where they were skating.  Steckel is just 5 inches taller, hence Crosby's head hit shoulder.  Maybe a bit off topic, not that it matters around here, but that one needed correcting.  And Hedman braced him into the glass, they just hit a stantion.  Crosby was injured on the Steckel hit and from repeated hard hits.  If you're a smaller player like Crosby and you're getting hit by guys that are 6'3 all the time, your head gets rattled whether it's the primary point of contact or not.  I'm Crosby's size, I know full well.


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#42 kipwinger

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:58 AM

Steckel didn't blindside Crosby.  They were both looking away from where they were skating.  Steckel is just 5 inches taller, hence Crosby's head hit shoulder.  Maybe a bit off topic, not that it matters around here, but that one needed correcting.  And Hedman braced him into the glass, they just hit a stantion.  Crosby was injured on the Steckel hit and from repeated hard hits.  If you're a smaller player like Crosby and you're getting hit by guys that are 6'3 all the time, your head gets rattled whether it's the primary point of contact or not.  I'm Crosby's size, I know full well.

 

Agreed.  When guys get hit clean, whether it's Crosby or anyone else, then there's no suspension on the play.  Which is the point I was trying to make.  Lots of people around LGW seem to believe that there's some sort of bias in favor of marquee players, and there isn't.  Everybody is just as susceptible to suspension as everyone else, as the 2013 suspensions to Duncan Keith, Corey Perry, Joffrey Lupul, Taylor Hall, and Alex Edler seem to indicate. 

 

I'm tired of this old "well if it happened to 'so and so' then there would/wouldn't be a suspension" bulls***.  It's simply not true.  Star players get suspended all the time, ask Ovechkin.  Furthermore, just because you hit a star player hard doesn't mean you'll be suspended, ask Steckel and Hedman. 

 

It's just a line of b.s. that dummies keep repeating to make themselves feel relevant. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#43 The Axe

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:56 PM

 
Agreed.  When guys get hit clean, whether it's Crosby or anyone else, then there's no suspension on the play.  Which is the point I was trying to make.  Lots of people around LGW seem to believe that there's some sort of bias in favor of marquee players, and there isn't.  Everybody is just as susceptible to suspension as everyone else, as the 2013 suspensions to Duncan Keith, Corey Perry, Joffrey Lupul, Taylor Hall, and Alex Edler seem to indicate. 
 
I'm tired of this old "well if it happened to 'so and so' then there would/wouldn't be a suspension" bulls***.  It's simply not true.  Star players get suspended all the time, ask Ovechkin.  Furthermore, just because you hit a star player hard doesn't mean you'll be suspended, ask Steckel and Hedman. 
 
It's just a line of b.s. that dummies keep repeating to make themselves feel relevant. 


Tortorella?

#44 Euro_Twins

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:59 PM

 
More baseless Crosby bashing.  If you recall Crosby WAS hit from behind, into the boards, AND injured on the play.  You'll recall he missed about a full year of hockey because of it.  Viktor Hedman did it.  And he wasn't suspended on the play.  Neither was David Steckel when he "blindsided" Crosby and injured him.  People keep saying "if it happened to Crosby the NHL would sing a different tune".  Well it has, and they haven't. 


It wasn't so much about bashing him as much as I like to, as I was stating that players are more likely to be suspended if the hit is on a high profile player. Although as you stated that isn't always the case, just more often than not.

#45 kipwinger

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

Tortorella?

 

Exactly.  Irrelevant dummy. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#46 frankgrimes

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 02:00 PM

As long as the nhl is punishing the result and not the intention plus having double standards, nothing is going to change. If you are playing for one of Bettmans teams you can do everything (even cut the achillies of a great defenseman) , if not the nhl will lay down the banhammer immediately.

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#47 kipwinger

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

As long as the nhl is punishing the result and not the intention plus having double standards, nothing is going to change. If you are playing for one of Bettmans teams you can do everything (even cut the achillies of a great defenseman) , if not the nhl will lay down the banhammer immediately.

 

Who are Bettman's teams again?  I'm having a hard time keeping all of these conspiracy theories straight. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#48 chrisdetroit

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 02:51 PM

 

Try skating up and down the ice with a concussion.

 

The speed, velocity, and collision impact are all greater than ever and tweaking the rule book will not have a significant effect.  Why has the head gear not evolved?  I'm not saying you need to wear a NASCAR helmet or a military helmet.  It was a simple illustration that the technology exists to develop a helmet that will both increase concussion protection and still be light weight and hockey-able, and aesthetically pleasing.

 

LOL Change the rules back. How'd that work out for Lindros and LaFontaine and all the others?

Tweaking the rule book will not help?  huh?  You don't think that slowing down the game will reduce concussions?

 

As far as Lindros and Lafontaine, I never said that slowing down the game would eliminate ALL concussions.  I don't think anybody believes that.

 

If such a helmet exists, why aren't the players wearing them?  My guess is that they either don't exist or the players don't like them.  If it was as simple as wearing a different helmet, they would already be doing that.

 

Middle school science tells us the E=mv^2.  The energy from a collision is a function of velocity squared.  Changing the velocity of an impact has a large effect on the energy expended. 


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#49 DickieDunn

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:32 PM


Where did I say better helmets eliminate concussions? I said there are better ones out there. The only way to eliminate concussions is to make it illegal to touch another player


 
Better in what regard then?  They look flashier?  More aerodynamic? 


Better in that they're designed to reduce the risk of head injury but they look bulkier and fit tighter so guys won't wear them. That isn't eliminating them though

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#50 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 03:41 AM

I would not be surprised at all if total consussions actually decreased and it's just that the undetected concussions decreased that much more, which makes it appear as though concussions increased.....if you follow what I'm saying

.
It'll take years to get a solid reading of the new rules, consistent diagnoses will help set the new standard when they revisit the the numbers.

Before they basically had to get knocked unconscious for them to do a full concussion work up, now if you get hit high in the shoulders and your head jerks a little you're in the quiet room for 15 mins without fail.
So you have a more than valid point, the answer just won't be definitive for a few more years with the same standards of testing.

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter, 29 July 2013 - 05:54 AM.


#51 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 05:56 AM

Tweaking the rule book will not help?  huh?  You don't think that slowing down the game will reduce concussions?
 
As far as Lindros and Lafontaine, I never said that slowing down the game would eliminate ALL concussions.  I don't think anybody believes that.
 
If such a helmet exists, why aren't the players wearing them?  My guess is that they either don't exist or the players don't like them.  If it was as simple as wearing a different helmet, they would already be doing that.
 
Middle school science tells us the E=mv^2.  The energy from a collision is a function of velocity squared.  Changing the velocity of an impact has a large effect on the energy expended. 


I gotta ask.
How do you suggest they slow the pace down, especially in a league where concerns are altering the game rules for a more exciting, higher scoring game.
Shallower nets, hybrid icing, limiting where goalies can handle pucks, taking out the two line pass.
An argument could be made for a more european style of hockey taking over so its more so about finesse, but this is still north america.
And aggression attracts more people to the sport.
Im not trying to call you out, im genuinely intrigued to hear how you think the game could be slowed down.

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter, 29 July 2013 - 06:00 AM.


#52 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 06:43 AM

New rules aren't needed. If anything take a couple out like the trapezoid. Enforcement of the current rules would help a lot more than anything.

Edited by DickieDunn, 29 July 2013 - 06:45 AM.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#53 Euro_Twins

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 09:20 AM

 

Agreed.  When guys get hit clean, whether it's Crosby or anyone else, then there's no suspension on the play.  Which is the point I was trying to make.  Lots of people around LGW seem to believe that there's some sort of bias in favor of marquee players, and there isn't.  Everybody is just as susceptible to suspension as everyone else, as the 2013 suspensions to Duncan Keith, Corey Perry, Joffrey Lupul, Taylor Hall, and Alex Edler seem to indicate. 

 

I'm tired of this old "well if it happened to 'so and so' then there would/wouldn't be a suspension" bulls***.  It's simply not true.  Star players get suspended all the time, ask Ovechkin.  Furthermore, just because you hit a star player hard doesn't mean you'll be suspended, ask Steckel and Hedman. 

 

It's just a line of b.s. that dummies keep repeating to make themselves feel relevant. 

 

I will just point this out, Weber did not get suspended.



#54 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 09:37 AM

 

Who are Bettman's teams again?  I'm having a hard time keeping all of these conspiracy theories straight. 

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#55 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 09:37 AM


 
Agreed.  When guys get hit clean, whether it's Crosby or anyone else, then there's no suspension on the play.  Which is the point I was trying to make.  Lots of people around LGW seem to believe that there's some sort of bias in favor of marquee players, and there isn't.  Everybody is just as susceptible to suspension as everyone else, as the 2013 suspensions to Duncan Keith, Corey Perry, Joffrey Lupul, Taylor Hall, and Alex Edler seem to indicate. 
 
I'm tired of this old "well if it happened to 'so and so' then there would/wouldn't be a suspension" bulls***.  It's simply not true.  Star players get suspended all the time, ask Ovechkin.  Furthermore, just because you hit a star player hard doesn't mean you'll be suspended, ask Steckel and Hedman. 
 
It's just a line of b.s. that dummies keep repeating to make themselves feel relevant. 


 
I will just point this out, Weber did not get suspended.


And does anyone remember Pronger physics? Or how a suspension is longer if a top player is hurt or a star creams a 3rd line guy? You can't say Crosby got hurt and no suspension to wipe out years of double standards.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#56 frankgrimes

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:12 AM

Oh well Pronger always played on the line and was a dirty player but today has guys like Torres or Cooke who are not only dirty they are out oof control and extremely dangerous. Watch out for Cooke getting suspended more often now since he is no longer playing for the NHL's darling club. The NHL can have all the rules in the world as long as they aren't punishing the intention nothing will change. All we can hope for is some sort of concussion reducing equipment in the near future.

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blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..

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#57 kipwinger

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:44 AM

And does anyone remember Pronger physics? Or how a suspension is longer if a top player is hurt or a star creams a 3rd line guy? You can't say Crosby got hurt and no suspension to wipe out years of double standards.

 

Show me one shred of evidence to back up your conspiracy theory and I'll begin to give it come consideration. 


 

I will just point this out, Weber did not get suspended.

 

Yep and it was a bad call.  However, it's not an indication that "star players" get special treatment considering Shea Weber isn't as big of a star as the guy he was hitting.  If this "stars get the calls" argument were true, then Weber WOULD have got the suspension considering the guy he hit is about 40 times more respected and accomplished. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#58 RedWingsDad

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:54 AM

 

Show me one shred of evidence to back up your conspiracy theory and I'll begin to give it come consideration. 


 

Yep and it was a bad call.  However, it's not an indication that "star players" get special treatment considering Shea Weber isn't as big of a star as the guy he was hitting.  If this "stars get the calls" argument were true, then Weber WOULD have got the suspension considering the guy he hit is about 40 times more respected and accomplished. 

 

I think that's debatable. Based on past accomplishments Z is defiantly the bigger star but at the time of the incident they are both up there neck and neck in my eyes.


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#59 kipwinger

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:59 AM

 

I think that's debatable. Based on past accomplishments Z is defiantly the bigger star but at the time of the incident they are both up there neck and neck in my eyes.

 

Well you may be right, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it's pretty hard to claim a "star bias" when both the players are stars.  If he were suspended, half the people would be complaining that he got suspended ONLY because he hit a star, and if he didn't get the suspension the other half would complaining that he got special treatment because he IS a star. 

 

This is a loaded argument without a single shred of evidence to validate it.  Which makes it about as meaningful as every other conspiracy theory. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#60 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:01 PM

I waa starting to give Torres a little credit last year.
He looked like he was cleaning up his game until the hit on Stoll, which honestly I honestly don't believe he intended to be so high.
Stoll was reaching for a bouncing puck, but either way, with his rap sheet how could you not suspend him, he's been a dirty player for so long theres no way to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Cookes infraction list is pretty ridiculous too, it'll be interesting to see what happens next time he's suspended, if memory serves me right he sat out 17 playoff games.

And Weber always struck me as dirtier than anyone ever accredited to him.
Last years playoff when he bounced hanks head off the glass hard enough to break his helmet, and no suspension?
If it were against any other team he would've gotten at least a game, not a conspiracy theory but shanahan can't show any favor to his former team and Imo that was him overcompensating to show that.

Don't get me wrong charas not gonna be a picnic to deal with, but I haven't seen him go out of his way just to try to hurt someone.

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter, 29 July 2013 - 12:06 PM.






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