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So the consensus on Shanny's #14 is a no?


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#21 ogreslayer

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:21 PM

The standards for jersey retirements are super high for the Wings and most teams. I think next to us the AVS might be the next most strictest team.

 

The same Colorado Avalanche that retired Ray Bourque's number based on the 2 seasons he played there?  I think that disqualifies the use of the word strict in reference to their jersey retirement requirements. 

 

And on the topic of Shanny, I hold the same opinion that others here have already stated.  He won't get his number retired & do think that the Wings need a ring of honor.  That would allow for the organization to still honor players that did make a significant contribution but fall short of being the type of not just great but generational player/leader that the Wings will put in the rafters.



#22 Crymson

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:22 PM

 

I think if we're going to speculate, the best theory is that he left because he didn't get along with Babcock. Same as Scheider and Lang. Although I think in the case of all three of theses guys, the Wings weren't overly worried about them leaving either.

 

 

Neither Schneider nor Lang left the team because of Babcock, and I doubt Shanahan did so either. Schneider departed because the Ducks offered him a big contract and a chance to play near his home in southern California, and Lang left because the Wings decided not to offer him another contract.

The best "theory" matches exactly what Shanahan said: that he identified more with the team as it was than with the team as it was becoming, and that he accordingly felt that it was time to move on. If clashes with coaching had the capacity to make Shanahan leave a team, then he would have long since departed from the Wings; Bowman was an extremely abrasive coach, one with whom Shanahan had well-known issues. I do not recall hearing any reports of Shanahan and Babcock feuding.


Edited by Crymson, 05 August 2013 - 01:24 PM.


#23 ogreslayer

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:32 PM

That's what I remember, too. The official story was that he felt his era was over. Time to make room for the new Red Wings like Datsyuk. That being said, it could've been because he didn't want to deal with Babcock. I forget, did he go to Jersey after us? Was their coach more laid back?

 

Shanny signed a 1 year, $4m deal in 2006 with the Rangers & played 2 seasons there before heading back to NJ for a year.  Tom Renney was head coach.

 

The official reason Shanny gave for moving on, in addition to saying he wasn't beating down the door to leave Detroit in the first place, was that he felt like he identified a little more with the past than the future of the Wings success.  Now the speculation I remember from around that time was that he didn't get along with Babs (and that rumor had been going around quite a bit with a good chunk of the vets) and/or that he wanted to get to a bigger market & sow the seeds for his post playing career either in the media or with the NHL head office.



#24 turbowhistle86

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 02:23 PM

i think the fact that nyquist has been wearing 14 is a pretty clear indication there aren't really plans to have it retired..
 
I really wish feds had a better ending to his time here though, he deserves 91 retired.


We are saving the 91 for Stamkos....

#25 Nev

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:22 PM

It's been a long time, but I vaguely remember that after Stevie retired, Shanny felt that it was time to hand the reigns to Z and Pav- the next generation, if you will.

 

He felt that his time here was done when Stevie left.  Or something to that effect.  Granted, that might have been what he told the press, and he might have had other reasons.  Who knows?

 

Anyway, that's what I remember hearing from back then.  Any verification- one way or the other- would be appreciated.

 

No, you are dead right, that is exactly what Shanahan said, that he felt like it wasn't his team anymore.  He also said subsequently that his decision to sign with New York was in large part impacted by trying to build a foundation for his post-playing career.  He was thinking of the media, turns out it led to working for the NHL.

 

If he had stayed, and continued playing on Pavs wing and retired a Wing, then he would have serious consideration to have #14 retired.  Lest we forget he'd just potted the quietest 40 goal season in NHL history thanks to Datsyuk's playmaking.  As it is, he is way below Fedorov and Osgood on the retirement ladder, and they aren't going up any time soon.


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#26 The Axe

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:24 PM

We are saving the 91 for Stamkos....


Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Stamkos.

Damn.

#27 Nev

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:24 PM

Oh, and I should add that pretty much every vet is reported to have clashed with Babcock over the years.  Remember when Hull said Pav wasn't going to re-sign with the Wings cos he hated Babcock?  And then Pav re-signed with the Wings.....


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#28 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:05 PM

Oh, and I should add that pretty much every vet is reported to have clashed with Babcock over the years.  Remember when Hull said Pav wasn't going to re-sign with the Wings cos he hated Babcock?  And then Pav re-signed with the Wings.....


This is what I remember as well--I thought Shanny had issues with Babs and that was one of the reasons he chose to leave...

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#29 StormJH1

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:31 PM

To me, trying to parse through details of what happened with Shanahan in 2005 or Fedorov in 2003 is missing the forest for the trees.  By that point, both of those players had won multiple Cups for this team, and were in the waning phases of their careers.  I throw up in my mouth a little bit every time somebody cites the "_____ isn't good of a guy as Lidstrom/Yzerman" or "I don't know how much it would mean to _____ to retire their #" arguments.  Under that logic, Sawchuk (who was not a perfect human being, nor did he have a great relationship with the Wings at all times) wouldn't have gotten his number retired long after he died, since it obviously doesn't "mean anything" to a guy who isn't alive. 

 

I think both Shanahan and Fedorov are potentially deserving of having their number retired, but you CANNOT have Shanny and not Fedorov.  Fedorov was a Hart-caliber player, and it was he and Lidstrom that made this into a pernnial Playoff team.  Yzerman, for how great he was, was a one-man offensive show for years on a team that wasn't all that good.  You can't put Shanny in the rafters as a reward for showing up in October 1996 and capping off a nearly-finished product...while ignoring what Sergei Fedorov was a part of for SIX seasons before that, including making the Playoffs every year and a Cup Final in '95. 

 

I would feel legitimately sick if this organization spent years tooting its own horn as the "United Nations" of hockey clubs, celebrating the Russian Five, and the first European captain to win the Cup, but then pisses all over Fedorov's legacy because he's Russian and left in free agency at a time when he only had one good year left in him anyway.  The Wings basically stole him from Russia at the Goodwill Games as a teenager, and he gave us 13 of the best seasons ever to be a Wings fan.  All the rest of it is just crap.  Shanny and Fedorov, or neither.


Edited by StormJH1, 05 August 2013 - 04:32 PM.


#30 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:31 PM

I thought he left because they wouldn't make him captain. I could be wrong though, but if true his number shouldn't be retired


I thought he left cause he didn't think he fit in with the Wings future plans. That and he wanted to be in NYC to prepare for his next career that he's currwntly in.

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#31 Crymson

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:40 PM

Oh, and I should add that pretty much every vet is reported to have clashed with Babcock over the years.  Remember when Hull said Pav wasn't going to re-sign with the Wings cos he hated Babcock?  And then Pav re-signed with the Wings.....

 

 

And then there was Strickland's report that the Wings' locker room was going to "collapse" by Christmas in 2006 because of Babcock. Yep.



#32 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:53 PM

The quote everyone is looking for from Shanahan is: "It really came down to an instinct I had. Detroit has a great past and a great future ahead of them as well, but I guess I just felt that maybe I was identified with the past a little bit more than the future."



#33 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:57 PM

Name an individual performance award he won. 


Edited by Wings_Dynasty, 05 August 2013 - 04:59 PM.

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#34 GMRwings1983

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 07:16 PM

Didn't Derek Meech wear Shanny's number?  That should tell you all you need to know.

 

 

Once again, I go back to the Red Kelly argument.  If his number isn't retired in Detroit, why should Shanahan's be?


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#35 DickieDunn

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:00 PM

Shanny was great. That's not enough in Detroit. Datsyuk should be the next.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#36 Seraph

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:10 PM

If you need an indication that it's not happening, it's that 14 has been on other players' backs already.

 

I am sure you can cite historical instances where that rule doesn't hold true, but you sure as hell know no one would have dared wear number 5 last season. If it's not obvious like that, it's not happening.


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#37 Jersey Wing

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:31 PM

Shanny and Fedorov no. Zetterberg and Datsyuk TBD.


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#38 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:18 PM

Name an individual performance award he won. 

 

.....

 

Name one that Delvechhio won.



#39 Nhurdi

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 12:37 AM

This is not Vancouver. So no he won't get his # retired here.



#40 frankgrimes

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:19 AM

Yes, the bar is very high, not a lifetime Wing, changed sides and is working on destroying the game for the league.

Easily an HHoFer but not one deserving to hang there with Develchio, Howe, Y, Lindsay

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Edited by frankgrimes, 06 August 2013 - 01:19 AM.

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