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So the consensus on Shanny's #14 is a no?


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#81 Nev

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 02:57 AM

 

The proof is in the pudding, as they say. I do agree that they'd probably still gift a jersey retirement to a player who had a season or two elsewhere. That said, Shanahan played less than half 0of his career with the Red Wings, so your point doesn't have much validity here.

 

 

But I agree that Shanahan doesn't deserve to have his number retired - primarily because he didn't play long enough in Detroit!  And if you're allowed to play a season or two elsewhere, then you're not a lifetime wing.  Which was my original point......


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#82 Crymson

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 04:15 PM

 

 

But I agree that Shanahan doesn't deserve to have his number retired - primarily because he didn't play long enough in Detroit!  And if you're allowed to play a season or two elsewhere, then you're not a lifetime wing.  Which was my original point......

 

 

Thus far, the only two modern-era Wings to receive that honor played only for the Red Wings. As such, your original point does not necessarily have any merit.



#83 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 05:26 PM

 

 

Thus far, the only two modern-era Wings to receive that honor played only for the Red Wings. As such, your original point does not necessarily have any merit.

Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean it is without validity or merit.

 

His first point was that there are retired jerseys of Wings players who played on other teams.   He's correct.  If you restrict it to modern era then as you pointed out the two examples in Lidstrom and Yzerman played their entire career in Detroit.  

 

As far as I know though, there is not any official or even unofficial standard or one that's been spoken of by the organization.   The two last players worthy of jersey retirement played their entire career in Detroit.  That doesn't make it a rule. 



#84 Crymson

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 06:32 PM

Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean it is without validity or merit.

 

His first point was that there are retired jerseys of Wings players who played on other teams.   He's correct.  If you restrict it to modern era then as you pointed out the two examples in Lidstrom and Yzerman played their entire career in Detroit.  

 

As far as I know though, there is not any official or even unofficial standard or one that's been spoken of by the organization.   The two last players worthy of jersey retirement played their entire career in Detroit.  That doesn't make it a rule. 

 

This admonishment could have been avoided had you noted my inclusion of the word "necessarily."



#85 Playmaker

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 06:45 PM

Shanny is the perfect example of why the Wings need a "Ring of Honor" in the new arena. Gives the Wings a way to honor guys like Shanny, Homer, etc, who certainly deserve great recognition, but don't quite meet the standard set by Stevie and Nick.


Meh. Everyone doesn't have to be honored and rewarded or recognized. This isn't Kindergarten. Everyone doesn't need a trophy. Then there's going to be arguments about who deserves and doesn't deserve to be in the "Ring of Honor". Agree with the sentiment that if it's up for debate, then the jersey stays out of the rafters.

#86 Euro_Twins

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 06:59 PM

Meh. Everyone doesn't have to be honored and rewarded or recognized. This isn't Kindergarten. Everyone doesn't need a trophy. Then there's going to be arguments about who deserves and doesn't deserve to be in the "Ring of Honor". Agree with the sentiment that if it's up for debate, then the jersey stays out of the rafters.


His salary and a pat on the back should be good enough. The Stanley cups he won were just a little icing on the cake for him

#87 AtomicPunk

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 11:26 PM

Hate to say this yet again, but using this criteria, #16 played his entire career here, was outstanding, feared, won one cup and the motivation for a second. He deserves it. Shanahan does not, sorry. ,


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#88 Nev

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 02:47 AM

Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean it is without validity or merit.

 

His first point was that there are retired jerseys of Wings players who played on other teams.   He's correct.  If you restrict it to modern era then as you pointed out the two examples in Lidstrom and Yzerman played their entire career in Detroit.  

 

As far as I know though, there is not any official or even unofficial standard or one that's been spoken of by the organization.   The two last players worthy of jersey retirement played their entire career in Detroit.  That doesn't make it a rule. 

 

Thankyou.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#89 Crymson

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:27 AM

Hate to say this yet again, but using this criteria, #16 played his entire career here, was outstanding, feared, won one cup and the motivation for a second. He deserves it. Shanahan does not, sorry. ,

 

A long, illustrious career is another criterion. Sadly, Konstantinov's accident prevented him from achieving that. One cannot known what might have happened had his career not been prematurely ended; but as things stand, he does not meet the criteria.



#90 Euro_Twins

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:30 AM

 
A long, illustrious career is another criterion. Sadly, Konstantinov's accident prevented him from achieving that. One cannot known what might have happened had his career not been prematurely ended; but as things stand, he does not meet the criteria.


He deserves his number retired. End of story

#91 GMRwings1983

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:40 AM

Konstantinov doesn't deserve to have his number retired.  It's been taken out of circulation (don't know for how much longer), but that's about it.  

 

He was a good player, but those other names are elite players.  What could have been is a different story.  

 

 

Norm Ullman had a better career as a Wing than Konstantinov or Shanahan.  His number isn't up there.  How can you put those guys up before him?    


Edited by GMRwings1983, 10 August 2013 - 11:05 AM.

According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#92 Crymson

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:19 PM

He deserves his number retired. End of story

 

Are you playing with me?



#93 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:41 PM

 

This admonishment could have been avoided had you noted my inclusion of the word "necessarily."

 

No, the admonishment could have been avoided if you could manage to disagree with someone without going the extra mile to say their argument has no value or merit.

 

It's really all opinions here.  If you disagree, disagree.  But to repeatedly state something someone says has no value or merit is basically an insult.  



#94 The Axe

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:59 PM

 
No, the admonishment could have been avoided if you could manage to disagree with someone without going the extra mile to say their argument has no value or merit.
 
It's really all opinions here.  If you disagree, disagree.  But to repeatedly state something someone says has no value or merit is basically an insult.  


Shanny's jersey will not be retired becauae his body of work with the Red Wings isnt the vast majority of his body of work. If he had played 15-16 seasons with us and only 2-3 with NJ/St. Louis, then I think the argument would be a lot stronger.


Edited by haroldsnepsts, 10 August 2013 - 11:31 PM.
to stay on topic

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#95 Euro_Twins

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 06:07 PM

 

Are you playing with me?

 

 

Nope, Konstantinov Played his whole career here, and Vastly contributed to a stanley cup before his career was ended by stupidity, was a very large source of encouragement for them to win a second, and still comes and visits regularly and motivates players. If you tell me someone else should wear his number, then you really shouldn't be a wings fan.



#96 Crymson

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 07:09 PM

 

 

Nope, Konstantinov Played his whole career here, and Vastly contributed to a stanley cup before his career was ended by stupidity, was a very large source of encouragement for them to win a second, and still comes and visits regularly and motivates players. If you tell me someone else should wear his number, then you really shouldn't be a wings fan.

 

It's not uncommon for teams to keep numbers out of circulation without retiring them. Having one's number removed from circulation is a sign of respect, whereas having one's number retired is a tremendous accolade. Konstantinov earned the former but not the latter.



#97 Euro_Twins

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 07:32 PM

 
It's not uncommon for teams to keep numbers out of circulation without retiring them. Having one's number removed from circulation is a sign of respect, whereas having one's number retired is a tremendous accolade. Konstantinov earned the former but not the latter.


Agree to disagree

#98 The Axe

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:23 PM

Agree to disagree


I agree. Unspoken out of circulation jerseys seems to be a Wings thing.

#99 Crymson

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:26 PM

Agree to disagree

 

I'll put it another way: Konstantinov played some very good seasons with the Wings and was an important piece of the 1997 Cup run, but having had his career ended in a tragic accident does not entitle him to the honor in question. It is entirely possible, and perhaps probable, that he'd not have had his jersey retired even had the injury not happened and had he gone on to finish his career with the Red Wings. As is evident, this honor is given only to a very few even amongst those players who do play an entire, successful career with the organization.

 

On a related note, I think that the manner in which Konstantinov's career ended has led to his accomplishments and value as a player being overstated by many Red Wings fans. For example, calling his contribution to the 1997 Cup win "vast" is an exaggeration; while he played an important top-four role on the defense, his numbers on offense were mediocre, and Lidstrom and Murphy did the lion's share of the important offensive and defensive legwork. He was a very good defenseman, but not a hockey god in his time; and unfortunately, we were deprived by a drunk limo driver of the opportunity to see the rest of his career.


Edited by Crymson, 10 August 2013 - 10:32 PM.


#100 UncleSam19

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:41 PM

Im new here but my opinion is, and honestly I only read about half this post before writing this so if i missed a post, i'm sorry. But people keep saying its reserved for legends, and if thats the case really only yzerman howe and lids should be up there, delvecchio, abel, lindsay, sawchuck all should be taken down. were they great hockey players? yes 100% but so were feds, shhanny, ozzy, hull, cheli, and number of other guys. and yes i know most of them didn't play theyre whole career in DET but they did play great there. and if you look at what what they did as the production line with howe, sure they were great but so were shanny and feds with yzerman... I just dont understand it...honestly i think if youre going to lock up detroit legends, leave those guys, retire shanny, feds, ozzy, holmer, the grind line, probie, and then Dats, and Z need to be in the running also.. to think that they have no shot in an era where scoring on a goalie is harder than beating the guy who dives around and acutally plays the position as well as the forwards is insane, nobody is going to put up Gretzky numbers anymore, its not going to happen. as far as legends for the the winged wheel, ozzy, holmer, shanny, feds, pav, hank, should all be up there. obv wait for pav and Z to retire but the point is the same  







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