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Who do we Unload, reload on before the season starts?


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#41 The Axe

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:37 AM

He won't be this year unless Helm has a set back.


Not just Helm. Even if Helm plays 82, I bet Emdog still plays.

#42 ogreslayer

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:51 AM

One other option the Wings have if they're really desperate is to send Nyquist & DeKeyser down to GR.  Between going with 6 d-men though & not having DeKeyser in the line-up, I think we would see the first ever time that a single coach in the NHL went on strike. 



#43 The Axe

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:07 AM

One other option the Wings have if they're really desperate is to send Nyquist & DeKeyser down to GR.  Between going with 6 d-men though & not having DeKeyser in the line-up, I think we would see the first ever time that a single coach in the NHL went on strike. 


Its sad, but we have to negative trade with Phoenix:

Sammy, Bert, Tootoo and a 1st rounder for a 7th rounder.

#44 Jesusberg

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:39 AM

One other option the Wings have if they're really desperate is to send Nyquist & DeKeyser down to GR.  Between going with 6 d-men though & not having DeKeyser in the line-up, I think we would see the first ever time that a single coach in the NHL went on strike. 

 

Was just going to suggest that Nyquist could start the year in GR, but he's only got like 2 games of waiver exemption left. I think DK's on the team regardless, and they'd waive one of Emmerton, Eaves or Tootoo before running 6 defenders. Going to suck seeing Gus spend another year in the AHL because of a boneheaded contract.



#45 DickieDunn

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:26 AM

He won't be this year unless Helm has a set back.Not just Helm. Even if Helm plays 82, I bet Emdog still plays.

He'll play. Just not for Detroit.

One other option the Wings have if they're really desperate is to send Nyquist & DeKeyser down to GR.  Between going with 6 d-men though & not having DeKeyser in the line-up, I think we would see the first ever time that a single coach in the NHL went on strike.  Was just going to suggest that Nyquist could start the year in GR, but he's only got like 2 games of waiver exemption left. I think DK's on the team regardless, and they'd waive one of Emmerton, Eaves or Tootoo before running 6 defenders. Going to suck seeing Gus spend another year in the AHL because of a boneheaded contract.

Nyquist will not spend the year in GR. Either someone will be on ir, a trade will be made, or Eaves and Snoop Emmerdog will be cut.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#46 chrisdetroit

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:30 AM

If Sammy's on LTIR, that opens a roster spot.  Once he's off of it, send him down until he agrees to waive his NTC. 

 

For me, the only totally untouchables are Z, Pav, and Tootoo, the latter being personal preference and purely personal opinion.  I understand that others may disagree.  I'm ok with that.

 

Assuming we don't re-sign Cleary :) or Brunner :( a lot depends on a healthy Helm.  Since signs are looking good, maybe we might have to part with someone like Eaves, although I loathe to see him go.

 

Since Miller and Andersson were just re-signed, I doubt they'll be moved. 

I hate to say it, but after Emmerton, who may well have some moderately decent trade value, Eaves is the next best option that they'll possibly consider.

 

Sucks.  I like Sammy too, but like Cleary, his time has come and gone.

 

I'd even be willing to part with Johan, even though he did his share of goal-scoring.  We might get a bit more in return for him if we find someone who will take on his contract.  I wouldn't just settle for a pick and a bag of pucks for him; he'd need to bring something substantial.

 

I have a feeling that no matter what happens, I'm going to be saying, "ah, dang.  I'll miss him."

For me, the only totally untouchables are Z, Pav, and Tootoo, the latter being personal preference and purely personal opinion.

 

Uh, seriosuly? 


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#47 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:36 AM

Not just Helm. Even if Helm plays 82, I bet Emdog still plays.


Unless there's more injuries, it doesn't sound like it.
 

Holland said Helm's status plays a role in having an extra center on the roster. So the team is likely to keep Cory Emmerton at least until Helm is cleared to play and not in danger of having a setback.


http://www.mlive.com...ren_helm_s.html


I'd be surprised if Helm's back isn't at least a question mark for the first half of the season though, so I could see them trying to hang on to Emmerton as a plug.



#48 55fan

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:04 PM

 

Uh, seriosuly? 

Yeah, "seriusuly".

 

I'm pretty sure that I mentioned that it was a personal opinion.  That means that I like him, but other people don't have to if they don't want to.

 

I know, I know.  That sort of thing meets with hostility around here, but I thought that the rest of my post had enough content that I could throw in a personal opinion.



#49 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:06 PM

Not just Helm. Even if Helm plays 82, I bet Emdog still plays.

That would necessitate Andersson be hurt then.  If Dats or Z are injured, they have the healthy one at centre and wingers move around.  If Weiss is injured, Dats and Z are split up or Franzen takes 2nd centre duties.  If Helm or Andersson are injured and Tuzzi is healthy, Abdelkader could move down to 4th line centre and Tuzzi can take his spot on the 1st line with Dats and Z.  Emmerton is a last resort bud....sorry. 


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#50 DSM

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:17 PM

I dont know for sure, but I dont think you can just freely bury players on LTIR if they arent hurt. My guess is that the league has some sort of way to make sure that teams aren't using LTIR as a way to circumvent the cap.

 

Besides, Bertuzzi is 100% healthy, and Samuelsson is supposed to be ready for camp if he isn't already.

 

I doubt there will really be any way at all for the Red Wings to unload Samuelsson or Bertuzzi. I doubt any team wants to cough up assets for an aging winger that missed significant time last season, without the Red Wings eating up some of their cap hit. I also can't see Holland eating any salary since they are going to be so close to the cap this season... I also can't see either player waiving their NTC's this late in their careers.

 

I think the team would like to unload Tootoo, but only if the deal makes sense. I dont think they want to retain any of his salary, nor do they want to take on any more contracts or players. My guess is that interested teams want one or both of those included in a deal for Tootoo and Holland doesnt want either. If they cant move him sensibly, he'll be on the opening roster. Waiving him won't be benificial because the Red Wings would have to pay $975k against the cap for him to play in GR if he goes unclaimed.

 

I think part of this decision depends on Helm. If Helm isn't ready to go, Emmerton will stay on the team as the #4 center until Helm gets healthy. Then, if they don't have room, they could waive Emmerton. If he goes unclaimed, he can go to GR without anything counting against the Wings cap. With Re-entry waivers gone in the new CBA, they will be able to freely recall him without worrying about him getting claimed and having to pay half his cap hit. As much as I like Emmerton, if he gets claimed I don't think it will really be a big deal. Ferraro will get a look this season, and was probably already on track to get a spot as a #13/14 forward for the 14/15 season. If Emmerton is gone and they need a center to fill in, they have depth in GR. I would say that it would be pretty realistic to expect to Emmerton get traded or waived if Helm is healthy to start the season.

 

I think Eaves would be next in line to go. If he can't be traded, waiving him and sending him to GR will only cost the team $275k against the cap. Not a huge number to pay to get to the 23 man roster limit.

 

Another option they have would be to start Nyquist in GR. Probably won't be the best or most popular choice, but if they wait till about ten games in when teams start facing injuries and/or making decisions on whether to send junior eligible players back to their junior teams, they might be able to find a taker for some like Tootoo, Eaves or Emmerton. Then they can recall Nyquist for the rest of the season when the space opens up.

 

Dekeyser can start in GR, but I can't really see the logic in demoting a d-man, when you have a logjam at forward... Carrying 6 dmen and 15 forwards won't make much sense. If a dman comes down with an illness, a very short term injury or has to leave for personal reasons of some sort, they won't be able to recall another Dman and would have to dress five of them.

 

I think the Red WIngs options to get down to 14 forwards are as followed, in this order:

 

1. Trade Tootoo

2. Trade/Waive Emmerton

3. Trade/Waive Eaves

4. Start with Nyquist in GR

5. If still injured, start with Helm on IR



#51 MileHighWingsGuy

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:47 PM

The Wings need to get stronger on D not weaker. Any scenario where Dekeyser is sent down to GR for any period of time is flat out stupid. I don't understand the love this board shows for a 5 foot 8 inch enforcer (Tootoo)

who couldn't crack the line-up in the play-offs or a gap filling Center (Emmerton) who is average at very best. If Holland continues to fail in the trade world to make this team better we need to cut bait with marginal talent

and support the poor contracts he handed out last year. I don't care who comes or goes from the back end, Nyquist, Tatar and Dekeyser need to be in the line-up if we are serious about winning.


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#52 The Axe

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:58 PM

I dont know for sure, but I dont think you can just freely bury players on LTIR if they arent hurt. My guess is that the league has some sort of way to make sure that teams aren't using LTIR as a way to circumvent the cap.
 
Besides, Bertuzzi is 100% healthy, and Samuelsson is supposed to be ready for camp if he isn't already.
 
I doubt there will really be any way at all for the Red Wings to unload Samuelsson or Bertuzzi. I doubt any team wants to cough up assets for an aging winger that missed significant time last season, without the Red Wings eating up some of their cap hit. I also can't see Holland eating any salary since they are going to be so close to the cap this season... I also can't see either player waiving their NTC's this late in their careers.
 
I think the team would like to unload Tootoo, but only if the deal makes sense. I dont think they want to retain any of his salary, nor do they want to take on any more contracts or players. My guess is that interested teams want one or both of those included in a deal for Tootoo and Holland doesnt want either. If they cant move him sensibly, he'll be on the opening roster. Waiving him won't be benificial because the Red Wings would have to pay $975k against the cap for him to play in GR if he goes unclaimed.
 
I think part of this decision depends on Helm. If Helm isn't ready to go, Emmerton will stay on the team as the #4 center until Helm gets healthy. Then, if they don't have room, they could waive Emmerton. If he goes unclaimed, he can go to GR without anything counting against the Wings cap. With Re-entry waivers gone in the new CBA, they will be able to freely recall him without worrying about him getting claimed and having to pay half his cap hit. As much as I like Emmerton, if he gets claimed I don't think it will really be a big deal. Ferraro will get a look this season, and was probably already on track to get a spot as a #13/14 forward for the 14/15 season. If Emmerton is gone and they need a center to fill in, they have depth in GR. I would say that it would be pretty realistic to expect to Emmerton get traded or waived if Helm is healthy to start the season.
 
I think Eaves would be next in line to go. If he can't be traded, waiving him and sending him to GR will only cost the team $275k against the cap. Not a huge number to pay to get to the 23 man roster limit.
 
Another option they have would be to start Nyquist in GR. Probably won't be the best or most popular choice, but if they wait till about ten games in when teams start facing injuries and/or making decisions on whether to send junior eligible players back to their junior teams, they might be able to find a taker for some like Tootoo, Eaves or Emmerton. Then they can recall Nyquist for the rest of the season when the space opens up.
 
Dekeyser can start in GR, but I can't really see the logic in demoting a d-man, when you have a logjam at forward... Carrying 6 dmen and 15 forwards won't make much sense. If a dman comes down with an illness, a very short term injury or has to leave for personal reasons of some sort, they won't be able to recall another Dman and would have to dress five of them.
 
I think the Red WIngs options to get down to 14 forwards are as followed, in this order:
 
1. Trade Tootoo
2. Trade/Waive Emmerton
3. Trade/Waive Eaves
4. Start with Nyquist in GR
5. If still injured, start with Helm on IR



No to everything. Just no. A player cannot hold a GM or an organization hostage. The only way Sammy plays is if the Wings really want him to play. Otherwise, the team buys his ass out, keeps him on LTIR, sends him to the minors, etc etc etc to keep him off the 23 man roster and lower his cap hit as much as possible. You dont start looking to trade guys that are young and have a considerable investment of draft/time/effort/money already put in. The Wings tried to make Mursak, Kopecky, Fleischmann, and Rittola work for AGES before throwing in the towel. No way they just say "Bye' to Emmerton. Get real. My guess is they are still of the opinion Sammy and Bertuzzi can bring some value to the team.

#53 DeGraa55

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:00 PM

And people thought I was crazy when I talked about how bad 2 years and a NFC was for Sammy and cola. Least we could waste money and buy out cola....

#54 DickieDunn

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:17 AM

No you can't just bury a guy just to do it. All HD would have to do is get a doctor to day he isn't hurt and file a grievance.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#55 Nightfall

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:39 AM

No to everything. Just no. A player cannot hold a GM or an organization hostage. The only way Sammy plays is if the Wings really want him to play. Otherwise, the team buys his ass out, keeps him on LTIR, sends him to the minors, etc etc etc to keep him off the 23 man roster and lower his cap hit as much as possible. You dont start looking to trade guys that are young and have a considerable investment of draft/time/effort/money already put in. The Wings tried to make Mursak, Kopecky, Fleischmann, and Rittola work for AGES before throwing in the towel. No way they just say "Bye' to Emmerton. Get real. My guess is they are still of the opinion Sammy and Bertuzzi can bring some value to the team.

 

The Wings can't buy him out now.  The compliance buyout period ended on July 4th.  So now they are going with him the whole way unless Sammy is injured OR he agrees to a trade.


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#56 The Axe

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:53 AM

 
The Wings can't buy him out now.  The compliance buyout period ended on July 4th.  So now they are going with him the whole way unless Sammy is injured OR he agrees to a trade.


Im sure the player can be persuaded to agree to a trade.

#57 TheXym

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:10 AM

Im sure the player can be persuaded to agree to a trade.


Assigning him to the ECHL would make him think other teams would be a better option IMHO.
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#58 55fan

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:24 AM

 

The Wings can't buy him out now.  The compliance buyout period ended on July 4th.  So now they are going with him the whole way unless Sammy is injured OR he agrees to a trade.

The amnesty period is over, but he can still be bought out the normal way, although there are issues with cap if it's done now.

 

The biggest fear I have with trading him is not that he has to waive the NTC, but that we'd need someone to trade him to.



#59 ogreslayer

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:39 AM

The amnesty period is over, but he can still be bought out the normal way, although there are issues with cap if it's done now.

 

The biggest fear I have with trading him is not that he has to waive the NTC, but that we'd need someone to trade him to.

 

I'm pretty sure the ordinary course buyout period was the same as the time frame for compliance buyouts, which means it expired back on July 4th.  Basically compliance buyouts had to be done during the already defined ordinary buyout period.  No go on a Sammy buyout then since the window won't open again until June of next year. 

 

Going by memory here, but I believe the lone exception to that comes down to teams that have had 2 players go to arbitration & having a 3 day window open for potential buyouts after an arbitration decision is done.  Didn't apply to the Wings this off season.


Edited by ogreslayer, 15 August 2013 - 09:42 AM.


#60 The Axe

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:54 AM

So are the Wings going to get to the point where theyre bringing in players to whack Sammy during practice so they can shelf his ass on LTIR? Hell no. Either they wanthim or they will find a way to move him. These people are all professional adults.





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