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Samuelsson: IR to All-Star?


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#41 GMRwings1983

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 07:35 PM

Right gets "paid" wouldn't you try to get paid as much as possible?

If memory serves correct, and it does. Holland did try to get big name ufas. And when that plan failed he had to get the table scraps that were left.

 

Just because you can't get big name ufas, doesn't mean you should sign a Samuelsson to a foolish contract.  I guess Holland is just as prone to overreaction as any other GM.


Edited by GMRwings1983, 24 August 2013 - 07:35 PM.

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#42 DickieDunn

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 07:44 PM

When he takes time away from kids then people can complain about it Eaves and Emmerton are the guys getting cut not anyone better than a 4th liner. 2 years at $3 mil is not a big contract. I can easily list a dozen signed the last 2 years worse. The ntc was a moot point. If he played well they wouldn't want to trade him. If he played bad nobody would want him and players will generally waive them anyway. When he's healthy he can score 45+ points throw a few hits and piss off the other team. If he's not orbhe craps the bed then he sits on IR again or the press box and a younger guy gets his ice time. Win-win.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#43 GMRwings1983

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 08:56 PM

When he takes time away from kids then people can complain about it Eaves and Emmerton are the guys getting cut not anyone better than a 4th liner. 2 years at $3 mil is not a big contract. I can easily list a dozen signed the last 2 years worse. The ntc was a moot point. If he played well they wouldn't want to trade him. If he played bad nobody would want him and players will generally waive them anyway. When he's healthy he can score 45+ points throw a few hits and piss off the other team. If he's not orbhe craps the bed then he sits on IR again or the press box and a younger guy gets his ice time. Win-win.

 

Sammy playing on the 4th line is just as bad as him playing bigger minutes.  He's not the type of player that should be a 4th liner.  That role is better for players with size and grit.  Holland and Babcock have no clue what a 4th line is supposed to be.  


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#44 DickieDunn

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:30 PM

The 4th line is whatever is left. For a time the team was stacked and the Grind Line was #4. Last year it was the Pk guys and/or Tootoo. This year it could be the kid line or Helm's check line, possibly centering Miller and Samuelsson, will be the 4 line.

Edited by DickieDunn, 24 August 2013 - 09:31 PM.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#45 GMRwings1983

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:41 PM

The 4th line is whatever is left. For a time the team was stacked and the Grind Line was #4. Last year it was the Pk guys and/or Tootoo. This year it could be the kid line or Helm's check line, possibly centering Miller and Samuelsson, will be the 4 line.

 

Our 4th line has been awful for several seasons.  Look at the series against Anaheim, where their 4th line was a huge advantage for them.  Ours did nothing in that series. Teams that win the Cup typically have a 4th line that contributes greatly throughout the run.  

 

It shouldn't just be a place to stack leftover players.  It should have identity and purpose, namely an energy line that sparks the teams and has guys with grit, size and preferably fighting ability.  A 4th line of Miller-Helm-Samuelsson isn't much of a 4th line.    


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#46 DickieDunn

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:54 PM

Sure it is. 2 guys who get in and hit and Samuelsson is good at pissing people off. 2 grinders and a guy who shoots. Also if he shows anything he could bump Abdelkader out of the top 6. Samuelsson as the shooter for Datsyuk and Zetterberg could work well. As for our 4th line, put the injured guys in and it's better.

Edited by DickieDunn, 24 August 2013 - 09:55 PM.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#47 Euro_Twins

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:58 PM

 
Sammy playing on the 4th line is just as bad as him playing bigger minutes.  He's not the type of player that should be a 4th liner.  That role is better for players with size and grit.  Holland and Babcock have no clue what a 4th line is supposed to be.  


Right, one of the best gms and coaches in the league have absolutely no clue what a 4th line should consist of. And in further news kwame is innocent
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#48 GMRwings1983

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:11 PM

Right, one of the best gms and coaches in the league have absolutely no clue what a 4th line should consist of. And in further news kwame is innocent

 

Not the last few years they don't.  

 

You're thinking old times.  Don't.  It's 2013.  For the last few seasons, our 4th line has been useless and a waste of time.   

 

Sure it is. 2 guys who get in and hit and Samuelsson is good at pissing people off. 2 grinders and a guy who shoots. Also if he shows anything he could bump Abdelkader out of the top 6. Samuelsson as the shooter for Datsyuk and Zetterberg could work well. As for our 4th line, put the injured guys in and it's better.

 

Miller hits?  

 

Also, Helm is more of a 3rd liner . He's too important to this team to be on the 4th line.  


Edited by GMRwings1983, 24 August 2013 - 10:12 PM.

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#49 GoWings1905

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:35 PM

When he takes time away from kids then people can complain about it Eaves and Emmerton are the guys getting cut not anyone better than a 4th liner.2 years at $3 mil is not a big contract. I can easily list a dozen signed the last 2 years worse. The ntc was a moot point. If he played well they wouldn't want to trade him. If he played bad nobody would want him and players will generally waive them anyway.When he's healthy he can score 45+ points throw a few hits and piss off the other team. If he's not orbhe craps the bed then he sits on IR again or the press box and a younger guy gets his ice time. Win-win.


That's where my concern lies. I don't see Samuelsson taking Eaves' or Emmerton's spot. Those two likely aren't playing regardless if everyone is healthy to start the season.

Z - Pav - Abby
Mule - Weiss - Alfie
Nyquist - Helm - Tatar
Miller - Andersson - Bertuzzi

I think you could mess around with the combinations on the bottom two lines, but those are the guys I think should/will dress if everything goes well with Helm. That doesn't even include Tootoo. So, even if the Wings end up cutting ties with Emmerton and/or Eaves, I still don't see where Samuelsson fits. I guess you could make a case over Bertuzzi, but I think Bert is more valuable with his ability to create space and as an asset in the shootout.

My overriding fear here is Nyquist goes to Grand Rapids all because of Samuelsson. When clearly, Gus has earned his place in the NHL.

Edited by GoWings1905, 24 August 2013 - 10:37 PM.

 
 
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#50 GMRwings1983

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:02 PM

That's where my concern lies. I don't see Samuelsson taking Eaves' or Emmerton's spot. Those two likely aren't playing regardless if everyone is healthy to start the season.

Z - Pav - Abby
Mule - Weiss - Alfie
Nyquist - Helm - Tatar
Miller - Andersson - Bertuzzi

I think you could mess around with the combinations on the bottom two lines, but those are the guys I think should/will dress if everything goes well with Helm. That doesn't even include Tootoo. So, even if the Wings end up cutting ties with Emmerton and/or Eaves, I still don't see where Samuelsson fits. I guess you could make a case over Bertuzzi, but I think Bert is more valuable with his ability to create space and as an asset in the shootout.

My overriding fear here is Nyquist goes to Grand Rapids all because of Samuelsson. When clearly, Gus has earned his place in the NHL.

 

Abdelkader on the top line?  I hope to God not.  


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#51 GoWings1905

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:09 PM

 
Abdelkader on the top line?  I hope to God not.  


Agreed, but it's going to happen.
 
 
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#52 GoalieManPat

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:56 PM

 

Abdelkader on the top line?  I hope to God not.  

 

Could be worse. Had the team brought back Cleary then Babs wouldn't be able to help himself than to put him up there at some point.

 

 

The fact the Sammy couldn't stay healthy enough to prove his contract worth shows hes not worth the contract.



#53 DickieDunn

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:07 AM

Right, one of the best gms and coaches in the league have absolutely no clue what a 4th line should consist of. And in further news kwame is innocentNot the last few years they don't. You're thinking old times. Don't. It's 2013. For the last few seasons, our 4th line has been useless and a waste of time. Sure it is. 2 guys who get in and hit and Samuelsson is good at pissing people off. 2 grinders and a guy who shoots. Also if he shows anything he could bump Abdelkader out of the top 6. Samuelsson as the shooter for Datsyuk and Zetterberg could work well. As for our 4th line, put the injured guys in and it's better.Miller hits? Also, Helm is more of a 3rd liner . He's too important to this team to be on the 4th line.

#2 among the forwards in hits.I don't think the 4th line will play much less than the 3rd at even strength. It's more likely that both will play the same and the differences in toi will be special teams.

When he takes time away from kids then people can complain about it Eaves and Emmerton are the guys getting cut not anyone better than a 4th liner.2 years at $3 mil is not a big contract. I can easily list a dozen signed the last 2 years worse. The ntc was a moot point. If he played well they wouldn't want to trade him. If he played bad nobody would want him and players will generally waive them anyway.When he's healthy he can score 45+ points throw a few hits and piss off the other team. If he's not orbhe craps the bed then he sits on IR again or the press box and a younger guy gets his ice time. Win-win.That's where my concern lies. I don't see Samuelsson taking Eaves' or Emmerton's spot. Those two likely aren't playing regardless if everyone is healthy to start the season. Z - Pav - AbbyMule - Weiss - AlfieNyquist - Helm - TatarMiller - Andersson - BertuzziI think you could mess around with the combinations on the bottom two lines, but those are the guys I think should/will dress if everything goes well with Helm. That doesn't even include Tootoo. So, even if the Wings end up cutting ties with Emmerton and/or Eaves, I still don't see where Samuelsson fits. I guess you could make a case over Bertuzzi, but I think Bert is more valuable with his ability to create space and as an asset in the shootout. My overriding fear here is Nyquist goes to Grand Rapids all because of Samuelsson. When clearly, Gus has earned his place in the NHL.

If a trade isn't made Bertuzzi Samuelsson and Tootoo will be fighting for playing time. Nyquist and Tatar will be in unless they play their way out of the lineup.

Edited by DickieDunn, 25 August 2013 - 10:05 AM.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#54 Playmaker

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:38 PM

You don't recall correctly.  If I'm wrong, please post a link with Samuelsson's nasty quotes about Detroit from that time period.  Seriously, has the Samuelsson hate gotten to the point now where we're going to make up bad stories about him that never happened?  Or is the hatred just so blinding that we don't really remember and just assume everything associated with Samuelsson was negative and terrible?


Simmer there, Chief. I did say I didn't have quotes and I didn't state is as undisputable fact. It was my opinion. My wording probably wasn't the best. I just recall him being somewhat bitter that the Wings didn't do more to keep him. If I was totally off base on that, my apologies. I don't hate Sammy at all, and I had nothing bad to say about his first stint here. Your reply was a total overreaction. While some might like his honesty, my opinion is he makes himself look like a DB more than often than not with his "honesty". The Team Sweden thing, blaming Alex Burrows for the Stanley Cup collapse, criticizing Vancouver management. It isn't like he doesn't have a history. I don't have any problem with anyone leaving for more money or a better opportunity.

As far as the contract being fair market value and deserved, I beg to differ. When he signed with Vancouver, he was coming off two stellar playoff performances and yet he signed for less money with the Canucks (3/7.5 and no NTC) How he's was worth more last summer, coming off injury plaqued seasons, 3 years older, in his mid 30's with all the uncertainty over the CBA and the unknown salary cap, is a mystery to me. Again, maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but was he a highly coveted FA?

FWIW, I do not believe that Nyquist can go to GR. He would have to clear waivers. Same goes for TT and Andersson. Also the Wings have two too many players. They have to shed 2 players, in addition to salary. I don't have an issue with losing Emmerton, but at 29 and under a million dollar cap hit, and a right handed shot, Patrick Eaves is far more of an asset than Samuelsson. I agree with the notion that he's a true 4th liner and his speed and PK skills make him valuable.

Holland has made far more good moves than bad, but this one was lousy from the start and his injuries have only made it look that much worse.

#55 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:55 PM

Simmer there, Chief. I did say I didn't have quotes and I didn't state is as undisputable fact. It was my opinion. My wording probably wasn't the best. I just recall him being somewhat bitter that the Wings didn't do more to keep him. If I was totally off base on that, my apologies. I don't hate Sammy at all, and I had nothing bad to say about his first stint here. Your reply was a total overreaction. While some might like his honesty, my opinion is he makes himself look like a DB more than often than not with his "honesty". The Team Sweden thing, blaming Alex Burrows for the Stanley Cup collapse, criticizing Vancouver management. It isn't like he doesn't have a history. I don't have any problem with anyone leaving for more money or a better opportunity.

As far as the contract being fair market value and deserved, I beg to differ. When he signed with Vancouver, he was coming off two stellar playoff performances and yet he signed for less money with the Canucks (3/7.5 and no NTC) How he's was worth more last summer, coming off injury plaqued seasons, 3 years older, in his mid 30's with all the uncertainty over the CBA and the unknown salary cap, is a mystery to me. Again, maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but was he a highly coveted FA?

FWIW, I do not believe that Nyquist can go to GR. He would have to clear waivers. Same goes for TT and Andersson. Also the Wings have two too many players. They have to shed 2 players, in addition to salary. I don't have an issue with losing Emmerton, but at 29 and under a million dollar cap hit, and a right handed shot, Patrick Eaves is far more of an asset than Samuelsson. I agree with the notion that he's a true 4th liner and his speed and PK skills make him valuable.

Holland has made far more good moves than bad, but this one was lousy from the start and his injuries have only made it look that much worse.

I agree with most of what you said except the part about market value. Last year, when Samuelsson was signed, there was a very thin FA crop. This raised up prices for those who were available. I agree that, based on his previous season of injury and age, he didn't warrant the contract, but that's not market value; that's real worth. Market value takes into account supply and demand - and last year: supply was low + demand was high = inflated salaries



#56 barabbas16

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 01:02 PM

Simmer there, Chief. I did say I didn't have quotes and I didn't state is as undisputable fact. It was my opinion. My wording probably wasn't the best. I just recall him being somewhat bitter that the Wings didn't do more to keep him. If I was totally off base on that, my apologies. I don't hate Sammy at all, and I had nothing bad to say about his first stint here. Your reply was a total overreaction. While some might like his honesty, my opinion is he makes himself look like a DB more than often than not with his "honesty". The Team Sweden thing, blaming Alex Burrows for the Stanley Cup collapse, criticizing Vancouver management. It isn't like he doesn't have a history. I don't have any problem with anyone leaving for more money or a better opportunity.
 

 

It was your opinion?  Are you saying that there was something he said or did upon leaving that is open for interpretation?  And, you interpret that to be "nasty and bitter," but others may not?  That scenario aside, I don't see how your opinion comes into play in this particular situation.  Either he left Detroit on nasty and bitter terms or he didn't.  I gave you an opportunity to support your statement with a source and you are unable to do that.  So, let's agree then that your 'opinion' was incorrect and that Sammy did not leave on "bitter and nasty" terms, but rather for more money and a better opportunity.  And, since you've said you have no problem with leaving for those reasons, we have no more discussion.



#57 Euro_Twins

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 01:34 PM

Simmer there, Chief. I did say I didn't have quotes and I didn't state is as undisputable fact. It was my opinion. My wording probably wasn't the best. I just recall him being somewhat bitter that the Wings didn't do more to keep him. If I was totally off base on that, my apologies. I don't hate Sammy at all, and I had nothing bad to say about his first stint here. Your reply was a total overreaction. While some might like his honesty, my opinion is he makes himself look like a DB more than often than not with his "honesty". The Team Sweden thing, blaming Alex Burrows for the Stanley Cup collapse, criticizing Vancouver management. It isn't like he doesn't have a history. I don't have any problem with anyone leaving for more money or a better opportunity.

As far as the contract being fair market value and deserved, I beg to differ. When he signed with Vancouver, he was coming off two stellar playoff performances and yet he signed for less money with the Canucks (3/7.5 and no NTC) How he's was worth more last summer, coming off injury plaqued seasons, 3 years older, in his mid 30's with all the uncertainty over the CBA and the unknown salary cap, is a mystery to me. Again, maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but was he a highly coveted FA?

FWIW, I do not believe that Nyquist can go to GR. He would have to clear waivers. Same goes for TT and Andersson. Also the Wings have two too many players. They have to shed 2 players, in addition to salary. I don't have an issue with losing Emmerton, but at 29 and under a million dollar cap hit, and a right handed shot, Patrick Eaves is far more of an asset than Samuelsson. I agree with the notion that he's a true 4th liner and his speed and PK skills make him valuable.

Holland has made far more good moves than bad, but this one was lousy from the start and his injuries have only made it look that much worse.


Nyquist is still waiver exempt until he plays literally 2 more nhl games.
I'm a Red Wing for the next three years and I'm going to make sure every team we play knows that.'' -- Jordin Tootoo

#58 Dabura

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 01:39 PM

Samuelsson just isn't what we need, on any level. If we want skill, we should go for Skill. If we want a fourth-liner with physical chops and high-energy, we should go for that. If we want a 35-year-old who just...is, then, great, we've got Samuelsson. mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


Don't Toews me, bro!


#59 Dabura

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 01:45 PM

Think of it this way:

 

If Samuelsson weren't on our team, would you all be like, "You know who we really need? Samuelsson." "Hey, that's a great idea!" "I'd be down with that!"


Don't Toews me, bro!


#60 Playmaker

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 03:27 PM

It was your opinion?  Are you saying that there was something he said or did upon leaving that is open for interpretation?  And, you interpret that to be "nasty and bitter," but others may not?  That scenario aside, I don't see how your opinion comes into play in this particular situation.  Either he left Detroit on nasty and bitter terms or he didn't.  I gave you an opportunity to support your statement with a source and you are unable to do that.  So, let's agree then that your 'opinion' was incorrect and that Sammy did not leave on "bitter and nasty" terms, but rather for more money and a better opportunity.  And, since you've said you have no problem with leaving for those reasons, we have no more discussion.


Speaking of bitter and nasty.....Dude,I gave my opinion on Samuelsson. It wasn't based on any deep hatred for him. I had thought I remembered him being kind of pissy when he left that the Wings hadn't done more to sign him. I apologized if I misspoke. I have neither the time nor the inclination to search for quotes. If you do, knock yourself out. He's a decent player that I thought Holland overpaid for in terms of years, salary and NTC. I'm hoping the Wings find a way to rid themselves of him based solely on his ability to play or lack there of. I'd rather see others play ahead of him. Do I like his "honesty"? No. But had he been healthy and contributed this season and had the younger players flopped, I could deal with his personality a lot easier. I didn't like the Tootoo signing either and hope they can find a way to get rid of him also. But I love what he's done off the ice with charity work with youth suicides, etc. It doesn't mean I want the Wings to keep him because of that.





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