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#1 CopenhagenWing

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:15 AM

http://www.nhl.com/i...id=nhl:topheads

 

Interesting.  

 

Personally, I'd preferred they'd do something about the width but this is a step in the right direction.  



#2 frankgrimes

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:53 AM

The NHL hates goalies just excellent making the second toughest job on the team - goons having the toughest - even more complicated.

 

Want to bring back excitment to the NHL? Allow hitting, hip checks and other stuff again instead of trying to force more offense.


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#3 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:14 AM

Article from In Goal Magazine regarding the changes to the rules.

In a related subject, as he is part of the article:

 

Fleury was asked to see a sports psychologist by management more than once, and this time he agreed.

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#4 dobbles

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:45 AM

The NHL hates goalies just excellent making the second toughest job on the team - goons having the toughest - even more complicated.

 

Want to bring back excitment to the NHL? Allow hitting, hip checks and other stuff again instead of trying to force more offense.

 

disagree 100%. goalie gear grew exponentially in the last 20 years. its just shameful how big the gear is. it has to be reigned in. and part of the problem is that they always talk about it but change very little. so there is this impression that they have been taking away all this real estate from goalies and it ends up being like half an inch or something not even worthwhile. then add to that that the goalies often just replace it with other pads to compensate, and its just a circle. in the article it already mentions that many goalies are trying to make the knee pads larger to compensate for lost inches. until goalies stop looking like the michelan man out there, they have no room to say anything.

 

i also think you are way off on allowing more hitting making the game more exciting. all you have to do is go back 10-15 years to the dead puck era. there was far less regulation on physical play. yet did you see more hits, more excitement? no way. you saw more clutching, more grabbing, more bear hugging. it was terrible.

 

nhl hockey has a fundemental flaw right now that prevents it from being as exciting as it should be. teams, coaches and organizations focus not on scoring more goals than the other team, but giving up less goals than the other team. and no i dont think thats just semantics. teams constantly play a style which is to not give up scoring chances at any cost. even if that means not taking any chances offensively. why? because its become too hard to score a goal, so teams are afraid to give one up. if you make goalies human again, then you will see scoring increase, which will change the entire dynamic of the game.


I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#5 toby91_ca

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:19 AM

Article from In Goal Magazine regarding the changes to the rules.

In a related subject, as he is part of the article:

 

In relation to Fleury, I haven't read the article, so not sure how he is tied in there because his going to see a psychologist has nothing to do with this news.  I saw news of that a couple months ago at least I think.

 

It is an obvious thing for him to be doing and I've wondered in the past why he hadn't done it (assuming he hadn't).  He seems to have the physical skills, but has serious mental problems at times.  What is really interesting to me is that he's been asked to do it in the past and decided not to?


The NHL hates goalies just excellent making the second toughest job on the team - goons having the toughest - even more complicated.

 

Want to bring back excitment to the NHL? Allow hitting, hip checks and other stuff again instead of trying to force more offense.

I think I disagree with you 100% as well, but I can't fully follow what you are saying....looks like there is a missing word, incorrect word, etc. in there.  I'm assuming what you are saying is that the NHL is being too tough on goalies here, which isn't fair.

 

In my mind, goalie's equipment has morphed over time into what we have today, which is just stupid ridiculous.  The goalies will argue that it is a saftey issue, which is total BS.  What I don't understand is why goalies would push so hard against limiting equipment?  If it impacts all goalies, then it's not like they'd be disadvantaged and potentially lose their job.  The only thing I can think of is the potential for their stats to not look as good, but so what, they already have a significant historical advantage in that department. 



#6 Echolalia

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:26 AM

I wonder if we will see more groin injuries as goalies adapt to a larger 5-hole.
I do think its ridiculous that these changes are coming with such short notice. Goalies take a while breaking into pads, and getting the stiffness out of new equipment. They aren't getting a whole lot of time to adjust to these equipment changes.

#7 barabbas16

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:30 AM

http://www.nhl.com/i...id=nhl:topheads

 

Interesting.  

 

Personally, I'd preferred they'd do something about the width but this is a step in the right direction.  

 

I agree - a step in the right direction.... still doesn't seem like much, though, but we'll see.



#8 Dabura

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:36 AM

The NHL hates goalies just excellent making the second toughest job on the team - goons having the toughest - even more complicated.

 

You're saying gooning is the toughest "job" in the NHL? I mean, sure, "tough" in the sense that you're fighting someone...once every six games....


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#9 toby91_ca

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:48 AM

I wonder if we will see more groin injuries as goalies adapt to a larger 5-hole.
I do think its ridiculous that these changes are coming with such short notice. Goalies take a while breaking into pads, and getting the stiffness out of new equipment. They aren't getting a whole lot of time to adjust to these equipment changes.

I fail to see the link to potential groin injuries.  To me, the only impact is that the 5-hole will now have a very small amount more of space when the goalie goes into the butterfly position.  The shortening of the pads will not change a goalie's mechanics....or shouldn't.  The only thing I can think of is this....if a goalie is concerned and wants to try and limit the 5-hold, it will mean he will not go as far into stretch as he used to be able to get away with....so perhaps less groin injuries (although I'm not sure that is too much of an issue for goalies since they are use to those movements).

 

In terms of timing, pretty sure you hearing about this rule changes does not correspond to the goalies hearing about it.



#10 Echolalia

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:21 PM

I fail to see the link to potential groin injuries.  To me, the only impact is that the 5-hole will now have a very small amount more of space when the goalie goes into the butterfly position.  The shortening of the pads will not change a goalie's mechanics....or shouldn't.  The only thing I can think of is this....if a goalie is concerned and wants to try and limit the 5-hold, it will mean he will not go as far into stretch as he used to be able to get away with....so perhaps less groin injuries (although I'm not sure that is too much of an issue for goalies since they are use to those movements).

 

In terms of timing, pretty sure you hearing about this rule changes does not correspond to the goalies hearing about it.

 

In terms of the injury, I guess I was thinking more in terms of goalies dropping into a closed butterfly tighter than they're used to, as well as pushing off from a tighter angle to block rebounds.  Not so much the act of closing the legs on their own.  Either way, only time will tell.

The article mentioned that the vote was cast June 27th of this year, and new equipment has begun shipping out to goalies in August.  Four goalies got a chance to use the equipment for the first time last Tuesday, at the Reebok-CCM goalie Summit (presumably the 20th, based on when the article was written).



#11 frankgrimes

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 06:31 PM

Goalies have to be mentally focused for the whole game, they need to get used to their equipment even more than the players do. Yes the pads are increasing but so are slapshots, wristers and others equipment stuff. Just compare the new pro sticks to the ones used a few years ago, it's like day and night these these things are hightech-wonders nowadays couple that with players getting stronger, bigger and faster goalies for sure need more protection otherwise the NHL is risking their health.

 

Being an enforcer is easily the toughest job in the NHL, even if you win your fight you are looking at a few punches to your head every single game and that adds up. These guys deserve more love by the media, their teammates love them andmost coaches do so also. I think goalies are in a similar situation, as a defender you can often count on a guy like the perfect human to cover your mistake, goaltenders have no one and now their job is getting even harder, that's just stupid can't believe the PA is ok with it.

 

More scoring doesn't lead to more excitment, I'd prefer games were goals mean something instead of ridiuclous games ending 6:4.


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#12 Son of a Wing

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:06 PM

Goalies have to be mentally focused for the whole game, they need to get used to their equipment even more than the players do. Yes the pads are increasing but so are slapshots, wristers and others equipment stuff. Just compare the new pro sticks to the ones used a few years ago, it's like day and night these these things are hightech-wonders nowadays couple that with players getting stronger, bigger and faster goalies for sure need more protection otherwise the NHL is risking their health.

 

Being an enforcer is easily the toughest job in the NHL, even if you win your fight you are looking at a few punches to your head every single game and that adds up. These guys deserve more love by the media, their teammates love them andmost coaches do so also. I think goalies are in a similar situation, as a defender you can often count on a guy like the perfect human to cover your mistake, goaltenders have no one and now their job is getting even harder, that's just stupid can't believe the PA is ok with it.

 

More scoring doesn't lead to more excitment, I'd prefer games were goals mean something instead of ridiuclous games ending 6:4.

 

First of all to think only the goalie has to be "mentally engaged" for the whole game is pretty ignorant. To play a high-speed impact sport at the highest professional level you need to be mentally engaged at all times, know whats going on in the play, and be ready to be called on for anything.  Just because a skater is on the bench doesn't mean he's "tuned out".

 

Secondly I definitely disagree that an enforcer is the toughest job in the NHL.  Like every player an enforcer gains his role through having a specific skill set.  The difference for an enforcer is that he would be called upon the least to fulfill his role out of almost every player on the team besides the backup goalie.  Is it a physically grueling role? Absolutely. To say it's tougher than a defensive forward who kills penalties all night long and has to shut down the opposition's top line though?  No.


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#13 dobbles

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:22 PM

More scoring doesn't lead to more excitment, I'd prefer games were goals mean something instead of ridiuclous games ending 6:4.

 

more goals doesnt mean ridiculous games. i prefer a 6-5 shootout over games where a team goes up 1-0 in the first period and milks the lead for the next 40 minutes. heck, pre-lockout, if a game went into the 3rd with even a 1 goal lead, you might as well just shut the tv off, it was going to be a snooze fest. 


I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#14 frankgrimes

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:04 AM

 

First of all to think only the goalie has to be "mentally engaged" for the whole game is pretty ignorant. To play a high-speed impact sport at the highest professional level you need to be mentally engaged at all times, know whats going on in the play, and be ready to be called on for anything.  Just because a skater is on the bench doesn't mean he's "tuned out".

 

Secondly I definitely disagree that an enforcer is the toughest job in the NHL.  Like every player an enforcer gains his role through having a specific skill set.  The difference for an enforcer is that he would be called upon the least to fulfill his role out of almost every player on the team besides the backup goalie.  Is it a physically grueling role? Absolutely. To say it's tougher than a defensive forward who kills penalties all night long and has to shut down the opposition's top line though?  No.

 

I haven't said tuned out and for sure they have to be engaged the whole time. The difference is, goalies aren't on the bench they aren't getting any advice during the game from their coaches. This is the NHL bar none the best league in the world so yes everything the players are doing outthere is going to tough and extremely demanding. It's just hard understanding why payers are allowed to use the best material outthere and goaltenders aren't, these huge goalpads also have some disadvantages (heavier, less comfortable) so it's already a trade off but yet the NHL wants them shrinked...

 

James Reimer from the MapleLeafs gave an interview about that and even he said, that being an Enforcer is the toughest role so I take the word from an actual NHL player. Think about it, why can guys like Marchand go outthere and start stuff, it's because Lucic, McQuaid, Chara and Thornton are having his back is Marchands job easy? For sure not but what Thornton does is like you said extremely physically and mentally grueling.

 

If I were a GM the first thing I would do, is tell every player they are as important as the stars including Enforcers and goaltenders.

 

What bothers me the most is simple: if you start tweaking things you are trying to force something what if it doesn't work? The NHL is always thinking short and never longterm!

 


more goals doesnt mean ridiculous games. i prefer a 6-5 shootout over games where a team goes up 1-0 in the first period and milks the lead for the next 40 minutes. heck, pre-lockout, if a game went into the 3rd with even a 1 goal lead, you might as well just shut the tv off, it was going to be a snooze fest.

 

For me it does had way more fun watching this league pre 2005...


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#15 dobbles

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:31 AM

For me it does had way more fun watching this league pre 2005...

 

but hasnt scoring returned to pre lockout levels anyways? so whats the difference? 


I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#16 frankgrimes

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:29 AM

 

but hasnt scoring returned to pre lockout levels anyways? so whats the difference? 

 

It's the whole picture everything is getting over analyst, more and more questionable decisions hurting the DetroitRedWings and other original 6 teams, less physical play and fights every year. I mean do people honestly believe, this whole forced offense thing is going to stop if goalie-pad shrinking doesn't work out? This is the NHL a league run by non hockeyguys so this will only be start.


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#17 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:17 AM

I think it'd be interesting to have a private panel consisting of the following:

--Current NHL goaltenders (a mix of stars and back-ups/young guys)

--Former NHL goaltenders (who played in the last 10 years)

--Engineers

--Persons who previously worked on product development/strategy for big hockey gear manufacturers

--Persons who previously or currently work on product development/strategy for big manufacturers of protective gear for other sports (American football in particular, don't take companies with a hockey division)

 

Have the final recommendations made available to the public *but* all names of contributing members are kept secret from the NHL, NHLPA and everyone else.

 

As an engineer I'd be really interested to read what a group like that came up with in terms of recommendations for rules/gear changes and even ideas for new gear innovations.


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#18 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:27 AM

It's worth noting that the act of changing goalie gear isn't as simple as it sounds.  To do it right you can't reduce the protection offered by current gear.  Composite sticks and elite athletic training aren't going anywhere so goalie gear can't become less protective. 

 

I've ranted about this on LGW before but it's worth saying again:  Next time someone mentions Kevlar vests stopping bullets in a goalie gear discussion be sure to tell them to ask a police officer just what happens when a Kevlar vest stops a bullet.  Broken ribs, extreme pain and deep bruising is infinitely better than being shot unprotected but it's hardly a worthwhile trade-off for a goalie looking to reduce gear size.


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#19 toby91_ca

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:02 AM

It's worth noting that the act of changing goalie gear isn't as simple as it sounds.  To do it right you can't reduce the protection offered by current gear.  Composite sticks and elite athletic training aren't going anywhere so goalie gear can't become less protective. 

 

I've ranted about this on LGW before but it's worth saying again:  Next time someone mentions Kevlar vests stopping bullets in a goalie gear discussion be sure to tell them to ask a police officer just what happens when a Kevlar vest stops a bullet.  Broken ribs, extreme pain and deep bruising is infinitely better than being shot unprotected but it's hardly a worthwhile trade-off for a goalie looking to reduce gear size.

The comments about Kevlar vests stopping bullets is more of an extreme.  I think most people would understand that there is still damage done from a bullet hitting the vest.  What needs to be considered though is the significant difference between the size and speed of a puck and size and speed of a bullet, then the also significant difference between goalie equipment and a Kevlar vest. 

 

There must be somewhere in the middle.  I don't want to see goalies out there wearing Kevlar vests, but let's not lose sight of the fact that goalie equipment today is not totally about protection.  If it was just for protection, you wouldn't need 11" wide pads to protect legs that are 4-5" wide.

 

People can point to sticks improving, etc., but if equipment was good enough to stop a puck going 90 mph, is it no good for 95 mph?  Guys like McInnis and Iafrate were blasting pucks at over 100 mph back in the 80s.  The bigger thing for me though, is that the equipment seems to have changed to protect more of the net, not the goalie.



#20 Dabura

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:07 AM

I think it'd be interesting to have a private panel consisting of the following:

--Current NHL goaltenders (a mix of stars and back-ups/young guys)

--Former NHL goaltenders (who played in the last 10 years)

--Engineers

--Persons who previously worked on product development/strategy for big hockey gear manufacturers

--Persons who previously or currently work on product development/strategy for big manufacturers of protective gear for other sports (American football in particular, don't take companies with a hockey division)

 

Have the final recommendations made available to the public *but* all names of contributing members are kept secret from the NHL, NHLPA and everyone else.

 

As an engineer I'd be really interested to read what a group like that came up with in terms of recommendations for rules/gear changes and even ideas for new gear innovations.

 

Is it possible that The Powers That Be do indeed use something along these lines and we just don't know about it (because They don't tell us about it)? Genuine question, because, well, I'm not an engineer.


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