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Franzen: "I am not a goal scorer"


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#41 amato

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 11:21 AM

Mule could also slot in with the twins making the lines.....

Z-dats-mule
Nyquist- Weiss- alfie
Tatar- helm- Abby
Miller-Andy- tootoo/eaves/Bert

 

yeah, i'd like that. i like mule in front of the net. good size/decent hands.. if he stays there all year, he'll have a great year. 


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#42 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 01:41 PM

 

yeah, i'd like that. i like mule in front of the net. good size/decent hands.. if he stays there all year, he'll have a great year. 

 

The problem is that Mule often bails out from in front of the goalie before the shot arrives.   He's got the size and hands but I don't know if he has the fortitude to face an oncoming shot like Homer and Cleary did. 



#43 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 01:44 PM

I kind of wonder, too, if many even read this article or just looked at the headline.

I agree that it would be next to impossible to have a successful NHL career (many would kill to accomplish what he has) and have a poor work ethic.

Interesting angle as far as the confidence/shyness goes. I think it could very well play a part and may be what the point of the article was, to deflect attention away from himself.

 

Well I think the bigger point here is that he is on this team and is seen as THE goal scorer.

 

Fair or not, that is what his role is supposed to be on this team. So if he feels like that is too much pressure for him, then go out and find someone who is comfortable with that role. Beating a dead horse here.



#44 Crymson

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 06:28 PM

 

The problem is that Mule often bails out from in front of the goalie before the shot arrives.   He's got the size and hands but I don't know if he has the fortitude to face an oncoming shot like Homer and Cleary did. 

 

He did just fine in his earlier days.



#45 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 08:05 PM

 

He did just fine in his earlier days.

He certainly hasn't the last couple seasons.  



#46 DickieDunn

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 08:13 PM

Challenge for those complaining about Franzen. Find 5 players who have hit UFA status who have scored more goals for the last 3 years with a smaller average cap hit sincw signing their UFA deal than Franzen. As frustrating as he can be he provides good value for his cap number.

Edited by DickieDunn, 02 September 2013 - 08:14 PM.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#47 GMRwings1983

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 08:23 PM

Challenge for those complaining about Franzen. Find 5 players who have hit UFA status who have scored more goals for the last 3 years with a smaller average cap hit sincw signing their UFA deal than Franzen. As frustrating as he can be he provides good value for his cap number.

 

So because he doesn't have a big contract, that means it's OK for him to not always play hard?  

 

Just score what you're getting paid, and don't worry about the rest?

 

 

Sounds pretty lame to me.  If Franzen wanted more money, he should have asked for it.   He's shown the skill set of a guy that can score more.  His attitude and work ethic prevent him from scoring more, not the fact that he's not good enough.  


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#48 Wings3:16

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 08:35 PM

First thing that popped in my head;


Edited by Wings3:16, 02 September 2013 - 08:37 PM.

Wings in 2013...Bring the Cup back to Hockeytown!

#49 F.Michael

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 08:45 PM

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#50 Nightfall

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 09:32 PM

 

So because he doesn't have a big contract, that means it's OK for him to not always play hard?  

 

Just score what you're getting paid, and don't worry about the rest?

 

 

Sounds pretty lame to me.  If Franzen wanted more money, he should have asked for it.   He's shown the skill set of a guy that can score more.  His attitude and work ethic prevent him from scoring more, not the fact that he's not good enough.  

 

In other words, challenge denied.


Challenge for those complaining about Franzen. Find 5 players who have hit UFA status who have scored more goals for the last 3 years with a smaller average cap hit sincw signing their UFA deal than Franzen. As frustrating as he can be he provides good value for his cap number.

 

I agree.  He provides a good value now, but he may not provide that good of a value in 4-5 more years.  It really just depends.


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#51 DickieDunn

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 09:43 PM


Challenge for those complaining about Franzen. Find 5 players who have hit UFA status who have scored more goals for the last 3 years with a smaller average cap hit sincw signing their UFA deal than Franzen. As frustrating as he can be he provides good value for his cap number.


 
So because he doesn't have a big contract, that means it's OK for him to not always play hard?  
 
Just score what you're getting paid, and don't worry about the rest?
 
 
Sounds pretty lame to me.  If Franzen wanted more money, he should have asked for it.   He's shown the skill set of a guy that can score more.  His attitude and work ethic prevent him from scoring more, not the fact that he's not good enough.  


It's about value.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#52 Crymson

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 09:52 PM

He certainly hasn't the last couple seasons.  

 

Sure, but I doubt it's lack of nerve. That would be strange.

First thing that popped in my head;

 

Well... well, look, I already told you: I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people??!

 

But really, Franzen is a very good value for the price; he scores 25-30 goals and 50-60 points, and he's no slouch on defense. Though it's tempting to believe otherwise, the fact that he isn't bringing the total package to the table doesn't mean he's worthless. If he were being paid $6m per season, expectations would be higher, but he isn't getting that paycheck. He's getting money that more than befits what he is paid, and what he will continue to be paid.


Edited by Crymson, 02 September 2013 - 09:54 PM.


#53 GMRwings1983

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 09:57 PM


 

 

In other words, challenge denied.


 

 

 

For reasons which I explained above.  The challenge misses the point, as do you apparently.   


It's about value.

 

Then I wish they'd get rid of him, and use that salary, plus a couple extra million for a real goal scorer who plays hard.  

 

No use having a floater around, and then excusing his off games by saying, "Well at least he's cheap".


Edited by GMRwings1983, 02 September 2013 - 09:56 PM.

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#54 Euro_Twins

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:02 PM

 

 

For reasons which I explained above.  The challenge misses the point, as do you apparently.   


 

Then I wish they'd get rid of him, and use that salary, plus a couple extra million for a real goal scorer who plays hard.  

 

No use having a floater around, and then excusing his off games by saying, "Well at least he's cheap".

 

name a player for 6mil cap hit will get you 60+ points a year, net 25-30 goals, work his butt off every shift, have great defensive abilities, and get into all the hard areas and charge the net... go ahead and check next years ufas too if you want, even throw a ridiculous trade option, you won't find a perfect player for $6mil, that is a fact



#55 GMRwings1983

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:09 PM

 

name a player for 6mil cap hit will get you 60+ points a year, net 25-30 goals, work his butt off every shift, have great defensive abilities, and get into all the hard areas and charge the net... go ahead and check next years ufas too if you want, even throw a ridiculous trade option, you won't find a perfect player for $6mil, that is a fact

 

Name a player with Franzen's size and skill who takes so many nights off?   

 

I guess what makes a player great is part skill and part work ethic/drive.  Can't have one without the other.  Franzen has always had the skill to be one of the league's best goal scorers.  He's big, has a hard, accurate shot and plays with great centermen, whether it be Datsyuk or Zetterberg.  That's a recipe for one of the league's best goal scorers.  However, he's never been able to take his game to an elite level of scoring.  He never scored that 60 points you're talking about.  

 

I guess that's why he isn't paid more money.  He is what he is.  Namely, a guy that can score close to 60 points, but is unable to go higher because of his laziness and shyness. So he's worth the money he's paid.  It just seems like a damn shame he couldn't be better, because the tools were there.  

 

I look at guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg, who didn't have some of Franzen's natural gifts, but made themselves into elite players.  He had it, but never got there.    


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#56 Euro_Twins

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:13 PM

 

Name a player with Franzen's size and skill who takes so many nights off?   

 

I guess what makes a player great is part skill and part work ethic/drive.  Can't have one without the other.  Franzen has always had the skill to be one of the league's best goal scorers.  He's big, has a hard, accurate shot and plays with great centermen, whether it be Datsyuk or Zetterberg.  That's a recipe for one of the league's best goal scorers.  However, he's never been able to take his game to an elite level of scoring.  He never scored that 60 points you're talking about.  

 

I guess that's why he isn't paid more money.  He is what he is.  Namely, a guy that can score close to 60 points, but is unable to go higher because of his laziness and shyness. So he's worth the money he's paid.  It just seems like a damn shame he couldn't be better, because the tools were there.  

 

I look at guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg, who didn't have some of Franzen's natural gifts, but made themselves into elite players.  He had it, but never got there.    

 

well i said 60 points cause you said a better player fora couple million more, but you never did show me that player



#57 GMRwings1983

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:18 PM

 

well i said 60 points cause you said a better player fora couple million more, but you never did show me that player

 

There probably isn't one, but you're also missing the point.

 

Franzen could be a lot better than 30 goals and 60 points.  With that kind of shot, that kind of frame and those kind of linemates, I'm going to channel Mickey Redmond when I say that Franzen should be on a scoring pace of 40 goals every season these last couple of years.  He should be hard to play against every game, which he never seems to be.    

 

You're basically admitting that he's an underachiever who's worth all he's paid.  So am I.  I'm just not happy about it, because he could be better (probably too late now that he's in his 30's).  The guy has talent, but doesn't play hard enough every game.  I can't excuse that just because he makes as much money as other 30 goal scorers around the league.  Those other guys around the league don't have his physical talents.  He's untapped potential.     

 

 

And that's why many posters here don't like him.  Nobody wants to see a guy scoring two goals one night, and then looking lost and disinterested the next 5 games.  Regardless of what he's paid and who else around the league makes what.  


Edited by GMRwings1983, 02 September 2013 - 10:26 PM.

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#58 Nightfall

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:25 PM

 

Name a player with Franzen's size and skill who takes so many nights off?   

 

I guess what makes a player great is part skill and part work ethic/drive.  Can't have one without the other.  Franzen has always had the skill to be one of the league's best goal scorers.  He's big, has a hard, accurate shot and plays with great centermen, whether it be Datsyuk or Zetterberg.  That's a recipe for one of the league's best goal scorers.  However, he's never been able to take his game to an elite level of scoring.  He never scored that 60 points you're talking about.  

 

I guess that's why he isn't paid more money.  He is what he is.  Namely, a guy that can score close to 60 points, but is unable to go higher because of his laziness and shyness. So he's worth the money he's paid.  It just seems like a damn shame he couldn't be better, because the tools were there.  

 

I look at guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg, who didn't have some of Franzen's natural gifts, but made themselves into elite players.  He had it, but never got there.    

 

I believe the management of the Wings saw this in him and thats why they made the offer that they did to him.  Its a good thing that the Wings didn't misread him and offer him 5-6 million a season.  There are many players that make it to the NHL that have great talent to excel.  Some, like Datsyuk, turn into elite players.  Others, like Franzen, turn into decent/above average players.  Then you have some, like Patrick Stefan who fizzle out.

 

So, while everyone is whining about Franzen and him not living up to his potential, I believe many people have to step back and look at the potential that hundreds of players enter the NHL with every year.  How many of those become elite?  Very very few.  Which is why the Wings fans are holding their collective breath on who is going to take over when Dats and Zetterberg start their decline and/or retire.  Nyquist, Jurco, and Tatar have the skills to be elite, but its not a given that they are going to be elite.

 

So once again we go back to the original question.

 

If a player is being paid $4 million a season and is meeting/exceeding expectations for what he brings to the table, is that a bad thing?  Its obvious that Franzen is not a elite player, but he is not being paid as such, so why all the hate?


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#59 GMRwings1983

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:30 PM

 

I believe the management of the Wings saw this in him and thats why they made the offer that they did to him.  Its a good thing that the Wings didn't misread him and offer him 5-6 million a season.  There are many players that make it to the NHL that have great talent to excel.  Some, like Datsyuk, turn into elite players.  Others, like Franzen, turn into decent/above average players.  Then you have some, like Patrick Stefan who fizzle out.

 

So, while everyone is whining about Franzen and him not living up to his potential, I believe many people have to step back and look at the potential that hundreds of players enter the NHL with every year.  How many of those become elite?  Very very few.  Which is why the Wings fans are holding their collective breath on who is going to take over when Dats and Zetterberg start their decline and/or retire.  Nyquist, Jurco, and Tatar have the skills to be elite, but its not a given that they are going to be elite.

 

So once again we go back to the original question.

 

If a player is being paid $4 million a season and is meeting/exceeding expectations for what he brings to the table, is that a bad thing?  Its obvious that Franzen is not a elite player, but he is not being paid as such, so why all the hate?

 

Because as I just wrote, people don't like to see a guy scoring a few goals, and then disappearing for the longest time.  It adds up to 25 goals, but looks like he's floating more often that not.  Fans want to see guys busting their ass on every shift.    

 

It's a shame that centers like Datsyuk and Zetterberg haven't had a chance to play with a true goal scoring winger for the longest time.  Obviously, it's even worse when guys like Abdelkader or Cleary are thrown on top lines, but those guys never had Franzen's talent or fan expectations.  

 

The hate from fans isn't hard to understand when you look at it as something differently than just salary.  It's those reasons above why Franzen is disliked.     


Edited by GMRwings1983, 02 September 2013 - 10:34 PM.

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#60 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 11:03 PM

Franzen would look good in a Canucks jersey. 

 

Not quite sure what to expect from Franzen this coming season but a buyout on him (in the future) could be a realistic option.







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