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Franzen: "I am not a goal scorer"


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#141 amato

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 07:16 AM

Fun stat: franzen is ranked 87 overall in nhl 14, 3 behind Z and ahead of any other forward on the wings not named datsyuk or Zetterberg :P

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#142 HIFI_canadian

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:29 PM

Worse long-term deal I have ever seen (besides anyone Garth Snow signs).


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#143 number9

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:53 PM

Worse long-term deal I have ever seen (besides anyone Garth Snow signs).

... so you haven't seen much I take it?



#144 bardownginos

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:59 AM

The real problem is that people expect him to be a 40 goal scorer, when he simply is not (Well that and we expect him to be a goal per game player like he was in the 08 playoffs). It's quite the anomaly. Even Mickey Redmond refers to him as a 40 goal guy, but check his stats, at 33, he's never scored that much. Hell, he's only scored over 30 goals once. 

 

Moral of the story, perhaps people need to change their expectations of how much this guy scores. He's a high 20 goal scorer. Couple that with an average of 20 assists and it doesn't seem as bad as people make it out to be. 

 

I do think he will largely benefit from playing with workhorses like Weiss or Alfie though. Guys who aren't afraid to get a little dirty while he gets himself into prime scoring positions (and when you can shoot the puck like him, that's pretty much anywhere).



#145 GoWings1905

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:53 PM

The real problem is that people expect him to be a 40 goal scorer, when he simply is not (Well that and we expect him to be a goal per game player like he was in the 08 playoffs). It's quite the anomaly. Even Mickey Redmond refers to him as a 40 goal guy, but check his stats, at 33, he's never scored that much. Hell, he's only scored over 30 goals once. 

 

Moral of the story, perhaps people need to change their expectations of how much this guy scores. He's a high 20 goal scorer. Couple that with an average of 20 assists and it doesn't seem as bad as people make it out to be. 

 

I do think he will largely benefit from playing with workhorses like Weiss or Alfie though. Guys who aren't afraid to get a little dirty while he gets himself into prime scoring positions (and when you can shoot the puck like him, that's pretty much anywhere).

 

I'm not so sure it's Franzen's production that people have a gripe about. At least for me personally, it's more the appearance that Franzen doesn't show up to play every game. He is a great value for the contract, but that doesn't make floating and lack of effort acceptable. Franzen's massive playoff years probably skewed some expectations, though in reality Franzen hasn't performed at all in the playoffs since then. So, when your fallback is "playoff performer" and then you don't do that anymore -- combined with the floating during the regular season, that's where fans start to get upset with Franzen. 

 

I agree that Weiss centering a line should help out Franzen this season. He needs somebody to do most of the work.


 
 
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#146 Dabura

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:23 AM

http://www.freep.com...1/1053/sports05

 

And even there, Pierre LeBrun thinks the Mule is overrated, writing: “I don’t know what it is, but I always feel like Franzen leaves me wanting more. I just feel like he’s always had the talent to be a 40-goal scorer in this league. ... He scored 28 goals in 2010-11, 29 in 2011-12 and 14 in 41 games last season in the lockout-shortened year. Those numbers are good, but I feel like his talent should produce more.”

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#147 Euro_Twins

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:54 AM

http://www.freep.com...1/1053/sports05
 


I couldn't care less about what Pierre LeBrun thinks

#148 ForzaVerde

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:55 AM

The problem is that if Franzen isn't scoring goals, he doesn't bring anything else to the team.  
 
He needs to be more aggressive offensively and always look to shoot first.  That doesn't always seem to be the case.  We've seen him go on streaks where he's as good as anyone in the league at scoring goals.  When he doesn't do it consistently, it appears it's because of him having a lazy work ethic.
 
The converse argument is when people state that he produces at the pay level he's currently at.  I guess that's true.  But that doesn't mean it's OK for a guy to be lazier and underachieve a bit.   


Well said. I think Franzen needs to take on more responsibility and ip his desire to be an all-star instead of backing down.

#149 VM1138

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:19 AM

Would this thread become even more interesting if I mentioned Marian Hossa?
 
Instead of paying Franzen his $4 million to be a 25-30 goal scorer, we could have paid Hossa a little more, but gotten a much better production in return.    
 
 
He sucked in the 2009 playoffs, but Holland is supposed to see the future better than us, and I think we can all agree he made the wrong decision.    


I don't blame Holland. Hossa didn't have the reputation as a playoff beast. And really, I don't think he has been. Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't consulted the stats, but until this year Hossa was really a streaky regular season player. Holland could've gone either way, but it looked like the sky was the limit for Franzen. Then came the Cup hangover that lasted til last year.
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#150 Dabura

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:46 AM

Hossa was a known; you knew pretty much exactly what you were getting with his services (he's been that consistent), and what you were getting was (and remains) generally very valuable. Provided he wasn't injured.

 

Franzen, on the other hand, was a big question mark. Were these monster playoff runs the real Johan Franzen, or would they prove to be anomalies, outliers?

 

I think, given all that, Holland was wrong to choose Franzen. You choose the known, the proven, the consistent, not the (un)known, no matter how sexy the package may have proven itself to be in the short time you've known it.

 

Ultimately, when all is said and done, Hossa will very likely be remembered as the superior playoff performer. Irony!

 

But, alas, [/deadhorsebrokenrecord]

 

Also, I don't really care what LeBrun has to say either, but I do happen to agree with him here.


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#151 kipwinger

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:33 AM

Hossa was a known; you knew pretty much exactly what you were getting with his services (he's been that consistent), and what you were getting was (and remains) generally very valuable. Provided he wasn't injured.

 

Franzen, on the other hand, was a big question mark. Were these monster playoff runs the real Johan Franzen, or would they prove to be anomalies, outliers?

 

I think, given all that, Holland was wrong to choose Franzen. You choose the known, the proven, the consistent, not the (un)known, no matter how sexy the package may have proven itself to be in the short time you've known it.

 

Ultimately, when all is said and done, Hossa will very likely be remembered as the superior playoff performer. Irony!

 

But, alas, [/deadhorsebrokenrecord]

 

Also, I don't really care what LeBrun has to say either, but I do happen to agree with him here.

 

Right, which is why you're obviously in favor of seeing Cleary and Sammy over Tatar and Nyquist this season yeah?  Gotta go with the known, the consistent, and not the unknown, short term success of the "sexy package".  Franzen was a young(ish) goal scorer on the rise in 2009.  Hossa was a known commodity who wanted more money.  Holland gambled.  It's easy to say he gambled incorrectly, but it's not like the deal has turned out bad for us.  Franzen has been a good player.  Just not better than Hossa. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#152 AtomicPunk

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:41 AM

When Franzen was signed to this big multi-year deal...I think the Wings and the fans thought he would produce at a Hossa-like level. I think it's safe to say he hasn't.


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#153 kipwinger

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:49 AM

When Franzen was signed to this big multi-year deal...I think the Wings and the fans thought he would produce at a Hossa-like level. I think it's safe to say he hasn't.

 

You're spot on, but it's not like he's been bad either. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#154 Bannedforlife

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:50 PM

 

Right, which is why you're obviously in favor of seeing Cleary and Sammy over Tatar and Nyquist this season yeah?  Gotta go with the known, the consistent, and not the unknown, short term success of the "sexy package".  Franzen was a young(ish) goal scorer on the rise in 2009.  Hossa was a known commodity who wanted more money.  Holland gambled.  It's easy to say he gambled incorrectly, but it's not like the deal has turned out bad for us.  Franzen has been a good player.  Just not better than Hossa. 

Did you just compare Marian Hossa to Daniel Cleary and Mikael Samuelsson??? 


Edited by Bannedforlife, 19 September 2013 - 07:51 PM.


#155 kipwinger

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:33 PM

Did you just compare Marian Hossa to Daniel Cleary and Mikael Samuelsson??? 

 

Yep, you totally got the point.  I obviously think Marian Hossa, Mikael Samuelsson, and Dan Cleary are all just as good as one another.  Case closed Columbo. 

 

Or...I could have been making the point that keeping a known commodity over taking a gamble on guys with promise, but who are still unproven, is not always a good idea.  It may have been in the Hossa/Franzen case, but time will tell whether it's a good idea to keep Cleary and Samuelsson around over "unproven" alternatives like Tatar and Nyquist. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#156 Franzine

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:09 PM

When Franzen was signed to this big multi-year deal...I think the Wings and the fans thought he would produce at a Hossa-like level. I think it's safe to say he hasn't.

 

They had the same number of points last season.



#157 Euro_Twins

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:15 PM

 

They had the same number of points last season.

 

shhh, don't say that too loud, the naysayers are on-looking with stats, but refuse to give any thought to the ones you present proving them wrong, instead the respond with conjecture and fortune telling



#158 GoWings1905

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:42 PM

 

They had the same number of points last season.

 

That's fine, but even when Marian Hossa isn't putting up points, he influences the game in other areas. That's the major difference between him and Franzen. Hossa is a far superior all-around player. 


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