So....did Cleary just take Tatar's spot?

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I must have missed the memo stating Tatar is getting traded/waived/screwed.

How everyone has made this about Tatar is dumbfounding.

Now if you're complaining about bringing back Cleary over Brunner, that's understandable. Cause you know....THAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

Quit jumping the gun and getting all enraged over things that haven't even occurred.

He has a no trade clause.

As I stated before...Send him to the minors if he declines a trade. That relief (I know its not his full salary) and the relief from Helm being on IR puts us under the cap. by close to a million with just one more roster spot to clear.

People are making this situation a lot more dramatic than it needs to be. Depth is a good thing people. Weeds out whoever is at the bottom whether that be Emmerton, Eaves, Tootoo, Sammy or anyone else.

We don't even need a trading partner to make it work.

[Guest Playmaker]

Explain to me why it has to be one of those two options and not an Eaves trade, or a Tootoo trade, or some package of trades? We're 2.3 million over the cap. Trade Tootoo (1.9 million) and Lashoff (725,000) and we're cap compliant. Trade Eaves and put Helm on LTIR and we're cap compliant. Trade Eaves, put Helm on LTIR, and waive Sammy and Tootoo and we're cap AND roster compliant.

There are a bunch of different scenarios to be played out, so why is it you're so sure that this will effect Nyquist or Tatar and nobody else?

Because the Wings have such a long history of giving young players an opportunity and trading/waving veterans? They have been over the cap and roster limit since the signing of Alfredsson and Weiss. So to get cap relief, he signs another aging,injured, over the hill veteran when there's already no room on the roster. Tatar was already the "odd man out" in training camp lines. He was called up this past season and played well, but yet was still sent down. It's hardly unreasonable to think that the Wings management would part with a younger player over a "loyal" veteran.

[Nightfall 871]

What more can he do to prove he's NHL ready? He won the playoff MVP. He's watched players leap frog him on the depth chart. He had more points than Nyquist when he got sent back down.

Seriously, if I got s*** on repeatedly like that I'd leave too. There's 29 teams that would sign him in a second.

Which is why he won't hit waivers. We are talking about the playoff MVP here. He will be playing with the Wings. If anything, the wings will send Nyquist down.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I must have missed the memo stating Tatar is getting traded/waived/screwed.

How everyone has made this about Tatar is dumbfounding.

Now if you're complaining about bringing back Cleary over Brunner, that's understandable. Cause you know....THAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

Quit jumping the gun and getting all enraged over things that haven't even occurred.

As I stated before...Send him to the minors if he declines a trade. That relief (I know its not his full salary) and the relief from Helm being on IR puts us under the cap. by close to a million with just one more roster spot to clear.

People are making this situation a lot more dramatic than it needs to be. Depth is a good thing people. Weeds out whoever is at the bottom whether that be Emmerton, Eaves, Tootoo, Sammy or anyone else.

We don't even need a trading partner to make it work.

You mean the 100K of relief that would provide? Detroit would still be taking on 2.9 million of Samuelsson's cap hit.

http://www.capgeek.com/faq/what-s-a-35-plus-contract.php

Players who sign multi-year contracts when they are age 35 or older (calculated on June 30 of the season the contract begins) count toward the cap under all circumstances, regardless of where (or if) the player is playing. The only cap relief is $100,000 from the player's cap hit if he is assigned to the minors after the first year of the contract or in the event of a buyout.

What happens when Helm returns? Real cap hit and real bodies need to be moved out. Helm on LTIR, Eaves and Tootoo actually traded (Not sure who'd want them. Have to hope for injury issues in training camps). Even then, guys are playing on lines they're not suited for (my opinion).

The roster is a cluster**** at the moment. I think this team needs to get a little lucky in the next three weeks.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Jesusberg

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

This is really embarrassing, knew it would happen. The real joke is thinking all those years near the deadline Holland may make a move...youth movement blah, blah, blah. Holland

hid behind protecting the young guys and the prospects as his out for never pulling the trigger and now that its their time we pass on Bruner, give Sammy a NTC and sign guys who

need to be replaced putting the kids we need on the roster in jeopardy. Whatever Holland your spring golf league can start early again. Idiot...I'm done wondering what Kenny will do screw him.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

You mean the 100K of relief that would provide? Detroit would still be taking on 2.9 million of Samuelsson's cap hit.

What happens when Helm returns? Real cap hit and real bodies need to be moved out. Helm on LTIR, Eaves and Tootoo actually traded (Not sure who'd want them. Have to hope for injury issues in training camps). Even then, guys are playing on lines they're not suited for (my opinion).

The roster is a cluster**** at the moment. I think this team needs to get a little lucky in the next three weeks.

I know it's not much relief but if he legitimately doesn't deserve to be on the roster than I don't want him on it. Just going to have to bite the bullet on that one if he doesn't crack it.

However if Sammy does play at the level he has played in the past then they can send Emmerton and Eaves (1.2 mil under cap) to the minors if they can't be traded. Eaves might even get claimed.

Bottom-line it's going to be the most competitive training camp we've had in years. That's a great thing. Bottom couple forwards are going to get traded/waived/minors and pretty much any scenario will fix the cap issue because it seems all but certain Helm is going to be on IR.

By the time Helm comes back we will have already been through training camps and the first part of the season. By then, in order to open a roster spot, there will be more trade action because of teams injuries and expectations as well as dealing with injuries of our own. It will get sorted out.

[LeagueIntegrity 8]

I've got to believe there's an attitude issue. Tatar did more than pay his dues in the AHL, and he's free to evaluate the option of going to Russia internally, but he never should have expressed it to the press in the way that he did. However right he might be, the correct thing to do would've been to say it was his 'ultimate goal' to make the team, not that it was his goal, but that the KHL provided ample oppourtunity if things don't work out. Just look at Mantha. From the draft to the start of training camp he had people believe he was really determined to make the Wings this year, despite it being near impossible. When it was made obvious he wasn't NHL ready he didn't pout, and just said what we were all thinking, and what I'm sure he knew from the beginning.

I can't reiterate enough, Tatar paid his dues (unlike Mantha), but he's been very immature throughtout this whole ordeal.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Again, grain of salt here but...

The same Wings beat writer who told me last night that Cleary had verbally agreed to come back (and was actually spot on) just told me that right now the talk in management is that Sammy will 99% start the season in the lineup, Nyquist will be sent down, and the guys they are aiming to waive/move are Tatar, Tootoo and Eaves....

[radekas 12]

Again, grain of salt here but...

The same Wings beat writer who told me last night that Cleary had verbally agreed to come back (and was actually spot on) just told me that right now the talk in management is that Sammy will 99% start the season in the lineup, Nyquist will be sent down, and the guys they are aiming to waive/move are Tatar, Tootoo and Eaves....

Jesus, if this happens it will be more than embarrassing.

[Spongewingredpants 75]

Holland is going to sign Brunner now and next week, Lilja oh an Ian White is still available

[Dabura 12,206]

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2013/9/13/4724930/quick-hits-daniel-cleary-edition

Read those tweets from Sarah Lindenau.

This isn't awkward. This is genuinely bad.

Bah, once again, everyone here's ten pages ahead of me.

[Dabura 12,206]

I do think Tatar has issues with maturity/arrogance, all that. And I do think he'd probably be humbled in an 82+ season in the big league (if only because he's so friggin' small). But you kinda have to feel for the guy, no?

And, honestly, isn't this the kind of thing Babs sort of likes to hear from young guys? I mean, not the threatening-to-bolt-to-Russia part, but the chomping-at-the-effing-bit-and-seething-with-anger part.

Remember that anecdote about Smith from last season? Babs sat him down and told him he was scratching him for the next game. Smith said ok, I'm ok with that, and Babs snapped, No! It's not ok! You're not ok with it! (or something to that effect). Or what about Bert saying he was livid about being scratched during this past postseason run? Granted, again, neither Smith nor Bert made threats or anything like that (as far as we know). But, then, Tatar is how young again? 22? And Holland is (supposedly) how high on our young talent, and building from within, and, like, totally giving the kids a chance, man?

The whole thing smells. It's a mess. But I'm on board with the let's-wait-and-see-how-Holland-handles-it-before-calling-for-his-head camp. I think.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

If Tatar sulks or plays poorly, then by all means trade him. I'd rather have a vet who wants to be here than some kid who's going to spend the whole season crying. At this point his attitude needs to be "I deserve to be on the team and in the lineup every night, I'm going to prove it," not "if I don't get my way I'll go to Russia," and he certainly shouldn't be saying that publicly. Those comments make me wonder about his intelligence too, since he should know that a) he probably wouldn't clear waivers and would end up in the NHL on another team, and b) even i he did clear waivers he can't just go play in Russia unless Detroit lets him.

If any kid is going to get sent down, it will be Nyquist. He's the only forward who doesn't need to clear waivers, and they will NOT go into the season with 6 d-men. If that happens, it's either going to be for a week or two max, or the whole season, and they would still have to clear about $1.5 mil in cap space after that. That means trading a vet, or waiving Eaves and trading Tatar. If they trade a vet, Emmerton can go as soon as Helm is ok.

This is how I see the roster shaking out after it's all said and done:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader

Franzen-Weiss-Alfredsson

Tatar-Helm-Nyquist

Andersson centering 2 of Cleary, Miller, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, or Tootoo, one of those last 3 will be gone, the other of the guys not in the lineup as healthy scratches, with Tatar rotating in and out as well.

Eaves and Emmerton waived

I think Tootoo is the easiest one to trade, so he's probably the one most likely to be gone.

[Dabura 12,206]

To be fair:

- This isn't exactly the first time Tatar's been, shall we say, snubbed.

- He's been proving himself for how long now? What else is left for him to prove? He was a monster for the Griffins in their Calder run, and he was named the MVP for his efforts. So, what, does he need to be an even more valuabe MVP?

- It's not like he held a press conference. I actually think Sarah is slightly at fault here; she probably shouldn't have said what she did.

- If this were any other organization, any other one, this wouldn't even be an issue.

- What happened to the "youth movement"? Isn't building and promoting from within our bread and butter?

- Ultimately, yeah, like I said, Tatar probably has some *issues*. But, again, he's friggin' 22. You know what other 22-year-old pro hockey player has *issues*?

Coyotes GM 'not happy' with absent Ekman-Larsson

- It's easy for us to wag our fingers at Tatar and tsk tsk him. But if you were in his shoes, I think you'd probably be pissed.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Dabura

[StormJH1 231]

You could make an argument that Tatar has the most intriguing offensive game in the Wings organization right now. At least from the standpoint that he's much closer to NHL-ready than some of the newer draft picks, and I believe he has more scoring upside than Nyquist and Andersson. Maybe considerably more.

I'm just not really that receptive to these "bad attitude" complaints about guys in their very early 20's. If Sean Avery can play two half-seasons for the Wings, surely Tomas Tatar deserves a chance to become a professional while actually playing at the highest professional level. These are just kids that come over from Europe chasing a dream to play in the NHL. He's 22 now, and I'm sure he watches highlights around the league of 18 and 19 year olds already that he may be better than. And no offense to the City of Grand Rapids, but living and playing there and in other small U.S. cities probably isn't what he had in mind. Especially now that he's achieved (in his mind) the highest prize the AHL has to offer.

Maybe he is a bad dude, cancer, "coach killer", whatever. Or maybe he's just an immature, talented kid who is frustrated because he wants to prove he's better. Either way, he's an asset, and I'd prefer to know more about him before we move him. And I'd certainly prefer to see him getting ice time over Dan Cleary.

[Dabura 12,206]

What's maybe most interesting to me about this whole thing is how Tatar's saying he's straight-up "scared" that his performance in the exhibition games might be the deciding factor. I find it interesting because 1) he always comes off as so supremely confident in his abilities (maybe it's an act?), and 2) it's a good point. Sometimes things just don't quite click, for whatever reasons (see the thumping Weiss's line took yesterday in the scrimmage). The guy just proved himself in the biggest way he possibly can. Calder Cup. MVP. Beastly play. Tons of goals. Would a string of "just decent" preseason games for him really be solid justification for giving him the short end of the stick again?

And another thing: it's not like he looked completely lost at the NHL level last season.

[Guest Crymson]

Again, grain of salt here but...

The same Wings beat writer who told me last night that Cleary had verbally agreed to come back (and was actually spot on) just told me that right now the talk in management is that Sammy will 99% start the season in the lineup, Nyquist will be sent down, and the guys they are aiming to waive/move are Tatar, Tootoo and Eaves....

Well, your beat writer is full of it, at least where Tatar is concerned:

General manager Ken Holland is exploring many options, but expressed support for Nyquist and Tatar. “Both played well for us last year. We like them both,'' Holland said. “Tats was the AHL (playoff) MVP with 16 goals; that's a lot of goals in a league where it's hard to score. Certainly, the expectations are they're going to be on the team.''

[Guest Playmaker]

You could make an argument that Tatar has the most intriguing offensive game in the Wings organization right now. At least from the standpoint that he's much closer to NHL-ready than some of the newer draft picks, and I believe he has more scoring upside than Nyquist and Andersson. Maybe considerably more.

I'm just not really that receptive to these "bad attitude" complaints about guys in their very early 20's. If Sean Avery can play two half-seasons for the Wings, surely Tomas Tatar deserves a chance to become a professional while actually playing at the highest professional level. These are just kids that come over from Europe chasing a dream to play in the NHL. He's 22 now, and I'm sure he watches highlights around the league of 18 and 19 year olds already that he may be better than. And no offense to the City of Grand Rapids, but living and playing there and in other small U.S. cities probably isn't what he had in mind. Especially now that he's achieved (in his mind) the highest prize the AHL has to offer.

Maybe he is a bad dude, cancer, "coach killer", whatever. Or maybe he's just an immature, talented kid who is frustrated because he wants to prove he's better. Either way, he's an asset, and I'd prefer to know more about him before we move him. And I'd certainly prefer to see him getting ice time over Dan Cleary.

But when a guy stomps his feet and pouts he's "off to Philly" when he doesn't get his way, that guy has "character and heart".

[Dabura 12,206]

Let's be real, Crymson - Holland's going to put on a good face, regardless of the actual reality. Any GM would do the same. That's just how it goes.

I'd like to add one more thing about what Tatar's saying:

“They always have lots of guys here and it's a big battle for, let's say, one spot,'' Tatar said. “Even when you play good it's really hard for them to change something when they still have option to send you down. This year it's a little different for me (not being waiver-exempt), but I'm still going to battle for my ice time and I want to make sure I play real good in camp and show I deserve more ice time. I have been waiting for that chance a little longer (than most). This year I got the chance and I try to show I belong here.''

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/09/red_wings_signing_of_daniel_cl.html

So it's not like he's folding his arms and pouting in a corner.

And again, he's saying this after four years in Grand Rapids - when, really, he should've been a full-time Wing at least one season ago, if not more. If anything, I give him a lot of credit for taking this all as well as he has and is.

[Guest Crymson]

I'm not denying that I'll be pissed if Tatar is dumped for Dan Cleary. For all that Holland is currently talking about loyalty, no promising prospect was ever excluded for 35-plus Maltby.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Crymson

[Based 6]

Tatar deserves to be on the 3rd line, same as nyquist, that line would be too fast, especially if helm plays, and it would be easily better than any other 3rd line. If holland dumps tatar for cleary i will be really pissed off, cleary better be on the 4th line.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Who the heck is Sarah Lindenau?

This tweet is ridiculous:

Sarah Lindenau @Lindy72

His body language was telling me he thinks he is gone. #drwtc #RedWings

So let me get this straight, she is using his body language to make a statement about what she thinks Tatar thinks that Babcock and Holland are thinking? No self respecting journalist would do that.

It's a tweet from a blogger. It doesn't mean anything to me at this point regarding Tatar's actual attitude and mindset.

Of course Tatar is worried and hopefully plays well in camp, but management is not going to base their decision solely on 5 games. He's played 27 games in the NHL and a ton in the AHL. Holland and company should have a well rounded picture of this kid by now.

[beachwing 426]

Great problem to have....all of this talent.

I will continue to blow the Tootoo whistle in hopes he makes the line up. NOT for fighting ability!

In addition to hitting and amping up the team and crowd with his motor, He can be an asset and put up 25-35 pts IF they let him, but I know even if he makes the lineup he will only be looking at 8 mins a game.....give him 12 mins a game and he is a steal at 1.9 mill.

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

So let me get this straight, she is using his body language to make a statement about what she thinks Tatar thinks that Babcock and Holland are thinking? No self respecting journalist would do that.

It's a tweet from a blogger. It doesn't mean anything to me at this point regarding Tatar's actual attitude and mindset. .

This may be true, but given the fact that I heard it on good authority that Tatar blew his nose sideways while standing only on his left foot can reasonably be interpreted to mean that he likes roast beef. Any idiot can see that!

BRB, going to tweet this ASAP YOLO

Edit: pinky swear I'm not drunk

Edited September 13, 2013 by BottleOfSmoke

[Dabura 12,206]

Sarah runs The Left Wing Lock.

I'd be on board with you, harold, I mean with the whole of-course-management-is-going-to-do-the-right-thing-re:-Tatar, if this were the first time we're crossing this bridge. But, by this point, it's become another one of those classic Holland things...

We like our team. Kicked the tires. Over-ripen/Tatar needs time. Etc.