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So....did Cleary just take Tatar's spot?


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#41 fat guy in a maltby jersey

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:30 PM

Tatar deserves to be on this team

 

Cleary does not

 

end of story



#42 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:42 PM

Tatar deserves to be on this team

 

Cleary does not

 

end of story

 

 

"Durrrrrr Cleary had the 2nd most points in the playoffs....Durrrrrr"

 

By that rationale, we could say that Cleary was better in the playoffs than Datysuk.......right?!



#43 ogreslayer

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:43 PM

 

What more can he do to prove he's NHL ready? He won the playoff MVP. He's watched players leap frog him on the depth chart. He had more points than Nyquist when he got sent back down. 

 

Seriously, if I got s*** on repeatedly like that I'd leave too. There's 29 teams that would sign him in a second.

 

His chances of playing in GR this season are already 0%.   If the Wings put him through waivers with the intention of sending him to GR, he'll never get there because there's no way last year's AHL playoff MVP does not get claimed by one of those other 29 teams.   



#44 rick zombo

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:43 PM

 

What more can he do to prove he's NHL ready? He won the playoff MVP. He's watched players leap frog him on the depth chart. He had more points than Nyquist when he got sent back down. 

 

Seriously, if I got s*** on repeatedly like that I'd leave too. There's 29 teams that would sign him in a second.

 

Well, Nyquist could very well start the season in Grand Rapids and you don't hear him complaining. Tatar was saying the same thing last year, that it was his last year in GR and he'd be asking for a trade if he wasn't in the Wings plans this year.

 

Honestly, I can't blame the guy, and I agree that he's proven himself. And I really want to see him on the Wing's starting roster in October/ BUT, I can't remember any prospect that's made the pro transition form GRs ever talk like this. (Filpulla, Hudler, Kronwall, Helm, Howard, Ericsson). And there have been plenty of guys over the years that have had to be patient. So there's that, and that's all I'm really saying.  


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#45 fat guy in a maltby jersey

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:44 PM

 

 

"Durrrrrr Cleary had the 2nd most points in the playoffs....Durrrrrr"

 

By that rationale, we could say that Cleary was better in the playoffs than Datysuk.......right?!

cleary is awful

 

sorry if the truth upsets you

 

i'm upset too



#46 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:46 PM

 

Well, Nyquist could very well start the season in Grand Rapids

 

I don't disagree with you, but that is the dumbestf****** thing I can possibly read.

 

That is the point we are at with Babcock and Holland.



#47 Dave

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:04 PM

 

Well, Nyquist could very well start the season in Grand Rapids and you don't hear him complaining. Tatar was saying the same thing last year, that it was his last year in GR and he'd be asking for a trade if he wasn't in the Wings plans this year.

 

Honestly, I can't blame the guy, and I agree that he's proven himself. And I really want to see him on the Wing's starting roster in October/ BUT, I can't remember any prospect that's made the pro transition form GRs ever talk like this. (Filpulla, Hudler, Kronwall, Helm, Howard, Ericsson). And there have been plenty of guys over the years that have had to be patient. So there's that, and that's all I'm really saying.  

 

Outside of Howard none of those players played 4 years in GR. Howard wasn't exactly lighting the AHL on fire either. 

 

So if they ask Tatar, one of our top prospects, to spend year number 5 in GR then Tatar has a right to be pissed.



#48 rick zombo

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:30 PM

 

Outside of Howard none of those players played 4 years in GR. Howard wasn't exactly lighting the AHL on fire either. 

 

So if they ask Tatar, one of our top prospects, to spend year number 5 in GR then Tatar has a right to be pissed.

 

None of those guys played their first year in GRs at the age of 18.  Hudler and Filpulla, for example were both 22 when they played their first full season in Detroit. Ericsson was 25.

 

Tatar is 22 right now. Worth considering.

 

But for the record:

 

1. I'm mostly in agreement with you, I just wish he'd keep his thoughts to himself and keep working hard.

2. He's not waiver exempt and would never clear so he'd never be sent down. So it's all a bit moot anyway.


Edited by rick zombo, 12 September 2013 - 01:30 PM.

"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#49 Crashnburnluder

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 02:00 PM

I don't think Tatar would clear anyway, but if we lose a top prospect over this... then theres a HUGE problem...

 

I guess our best Solution as much as it sucks... 

 

Helm goes on IR, Emmerton gets waived... don't need him with Helm and Andersson centering the bottom 2 lines... Nyquist starts in GR till roster room is cleared with a move of Sammy, Eaves, or Miller or someone haha. Or we just wait for Sammy or Bert to get hurt in training camp haha


Edited by Crashnburnluder, 12 September 2013 - 02:03 PM.


#50 nuts2u

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 02:29 PM

 

According to @Lindy72 Tomas Tatar just flat refused to go to GR if he clears waivers & is assigned there.

 

Watch Tatar get traded out of this whole mess.  And for what?!

 

Not much when it's common knowledge you have to trim your roster. 



#51 StormJH1

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 02:36 PM

Nyquist played every game of the Wings' two rounds last year.  In terms of actual NHL resume, him and Tatar were roughly even last year, except:

 

(a) Tatar is 15 months younger;

(b) Nyquist showed more value as a two-way player; 

© It's pretty well known already that Tatar is sort of a cocky guy, which is fine if you're good, but also leads to an extended "humbling" process in this organization.

 

I can't imagine Nyquist starting in Grand Rapids.  I could imagine it with Tatar, but, reportedly, he cannot.

 

This is what I kept saying in 2012 when they signed all those guys - it's not that any ONE of the Sammy, Tootoo, Bertuzzi, Miller, and Abdelkader deals are that bad, but combined, that's about $10 million + of guys that could more or less be replaced by faster, skilled youngsters on rookie contracts.  Of course, as the past two offseasons have shown, just because you have a spare 10-15 million in cap space laying around doesn't mean you're landing the next Weber or Suter in free agency (though I like Weiss and one year of Alfie).



#52 The Greek

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:05 PM

 
I don't disagree with you, but that is the dumbestf****** thing I can possibly read.
 
That is the point we are at with Babcock and Holland.

I ready said it in the signing thread, this team has turned into their personal social club.

Not much when it's common knowledge you have to trim your roster. 


Exactly, everyone in the NHL knows our plight. Kenny has put himself in a very weak position for future negotiations.

#53 Jesusberg

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:17 PM

Looking at this objectively, getting past my initial shock and annoyance, it's not the end of the world of Tatar was moved. The team has a lot of young talent. (Gus, Jurco, Mantha, Pulu, Frk, etc.) who are going to be contributors in the future. Winning the tournament in TC showed that. But... what does this say to future prospects? Sure, the Red Wings are loyal to their vets, but what about their prospects who put in all that work at the junior and pro levels?

What motivation are some of these kids going to have when being drafted by Detroit... "Well, I won't even sniff their roster for 5-6 years, so I can take it easily initially." I understand that'd be a poor attitude to have, but I feel like management needs to come down off their pedestal for a second. For a guy who says that the way to maintain success in this league is through the draft, he sure has a funny way of showing it. You've got TWO of the best players in the AHL, and they're fringe guys on your club, not because of talent, but because of some misguided sense of loyalty.

In my eyes, Dan Cleary is not the issue... it's Ken Holland (or perhaps Illitch to an extent?). Cleary is a perfect 3rd line guy. He could even fit in on a 4th line of Miller-Helm/Andy-Cleary... but when you're showing younger talent that you don't have much faith in them. I don't even know.



#54 Dabura

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:25 PM

I posted this in the main Cleary thread, but I figure it's just as relevant here:

 

SI.com: Signing Dan Cleary could hurt Detroit Red Wings prospects


Don't Toews me, bro!


#55 Son of a Wing

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:32 PM

I still don't see the situation as being that complicated.  

 

Helm - Will start on IR and probably be on there till the new year.

 

Emmerton - Waived if not traded. (Dats, Zetts, Weiss, Andy, Franz, Abby can all play center so don't give me that we need to keep him because Helm is injured)

 

Sammy, Eaves, Tootoo - battle out the last couple spots. Trade/Demote who doesn't cut it.

 

Leaves us with a 23 man roster and over 1 million in cap space.


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When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#56 dirtydangles

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:41 PM

Chicago has that Saad kid who is really impressing me and sticking with the stars and quietly developing. Why can't we function like this? Tatar should be up in the top six learning with the best along with Nyquist as well. Its better to do this NOW while Z and Dats are producing so that we don't have to rely on the kids to be THE guys right away. 


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#57 pucktividi

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:54 PM

Both Tatar and Nyqiust were loyal for playing in the minors for years on ELC instead of choosing petrol $$$ from KHL at first.They led the underdog Grand Rapids team to the Calder Cup so any thoughts about some washed up veteran taking their spot makes me puke.

 

Nothing against veterans in general,but those two kids should be a priority.



#58 shoobiedoobin

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:34 PM

 

What more can he do to prove he's NHL ready? He won the playoff MVP. He's watched players leap frog him on the depth chart. He had more points than Nyquist when he got sent back down. 

 

Seriously, if I got s*** on repeatedly like that I'd leave too. There's 29 teams that would sign him in a second.

 

I lurk here once and holy s*** I can't believe how bad it's gotten. I just had to reply. Maybe you'd throw a fit too because you never matured out of the stage where you only see 2 inches past your nose. It's the only way you could convince yourself Detroit has some sort of history of s***ting on young and/or loyal players. Someone will say they do but what they really mean is they're mad their exciting new toy spent one season in the AHL more than they'd like. Fact is they don't s*** on them, and if Tatar could show some patience it'd pay off greatly. If he has to be traded then whatever, buck the f*** up and make yourself look better with a better attitude. Even if you don't like it, you're essentially a business and you have to sell yourself.

 

I don't like Cleary as a player much and I'm pretty sure I was noticing this long before anyone else. I routinely got told I was nuts or stupid or whatever so this is a little funny to see now. I don't mind Cleary in a third line role away from the PP. On the top 6 he destroys offensive zone rushes/possession. He drop passes to no one, coughs up pucks every time he touches them, etc. But he does grind it out hard and play a role and more importantly he plays a huge role in the locker room. That's more important than I think most people here will or even can realize. They're not trading cards and this isn't f***in NHL on Xbox. We're not stacking a HUT team. Leadership and guys like Cleary are valuable outside of their shift to shift duties on the ice.

 

Tatar doesn't have to go anywhere if this is settled by getting rid of Emmerton, Sammy somehow, maybe Gus, someone else. There are options. Before you light your goddamn hair on fire just relax. And I can't believe people are talking about a bad return for Sammy, like what the s*** do you think we'll get for a 34 year old tweener who isn't too bad but isn't great? After a year of injuries? f*** a return, just move him. 3 mil is the return. This league isn't 30 paranoid GMs looking to screw each other every chance they get-favors are done and Sammy isn't some 15 point useless bum. Someone like NJ who needs forwards and has cash could get him for a wink and a handshake. All it takes is someone on the cap floor, or someone who needs a forward like him and has the cash to pay him for one measly season (which we do not in our circumstance).



#59 kipwinger

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:38 PM

Good god, by the talk around here you'd think Babcock or Holland already came out and said Tatar will certainly be gone.  Why is it that everyone thinks this will adversely affect Tatar and not Eaves, Tootoo, Miller, Bertuzzi, or Samuelsson? 

 

Oh I know, because as the last 10+ years of free agency and trade deadlines have shown us, the Detroit Red Wings constantly throw away quality prospects right?

 

Kinda jumping the gun aren't we guys?


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Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#60 GMRwings1983

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:02 PM

Holland should be hired as the new GM for Mexico's soccer team.  He's not needed in Detroit anymore.  

 

To answer the OP's question, someone is getting screwed for Cleary.  Either Nyquist is sent to GR, or Tatar will be traded / goes to Europe.  


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