Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

So....did Cleary just take Tatar's spot?


  • Please log in to reply
226 replies to this topic

#61 DickieDunn

DickieDunn

    http://redwingsandotherthings.wordpress.com/

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,621 posts
  • Location:Belding

Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:03 PM

Tatar will not be waived. He wouldn't clear them if they tried. He cannot play overseas without the team oking it. Unless Helm is on LTIR for the entire season they have to move Bertuzzi, Cleary, or Samuelsson in order to get under cap anyway, so Tatar would be losing his spot to keep Emmerton or Eaves. Anyone dumb enough to think that will happen? Eaves is gone. One of the bubble vets is gone. Emmerton is gone as soon as Helm is back.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#62 Wingsfan72

Wingsfan72

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 431 posts
  • Location:kalamazoo

Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:04 PM

Good god, by the talk around here you'd think Babcock or Holland already came out and said Tatar will certainly be gone.  Why is it that everyone thinks this will adversely affect Tatar and not Eaves, Tootoo, Miller, Bertuzzi, or Samuelsson? 

 

Oh I know, because as the last 10+ years of free agency and trade deadlines have shown us, the Detroit Red Wings constantly throw away quality prospects right?

 

Kinda jumping the gun aren't we guys?

Welcome to LGW




 
If I die tell my wife I said, "Hello".

#63 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 21,064 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:06 PM

Tatar will not be waived. He wouldn't clear them if they tried. He cannot play overseas without the team oking it. Unless Helm is on LTIR for the entire season they have to move Bertuzzi, Cleary, or Samuelsson in order to get under cap anyway, so Tatar would be losing his spot to keep Emmerton or Eaves. Anyone dumb enough to think that will happen? Eaves is gone. One of the bubble vets is gone. Emmerton is gone as soon as Helm is back.

 

I don't see this Cleary move not affecting Tatar and other young players.  It's just handcuffing your own team by adding one more forward you don't need.

 

I'd rather see us pay half that money for a goon, who can at least be a healthy scratch that plays on occasional nights.  You know Babcock is going to have Cleary in the lineup every game, unless he's hurt.  


According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#64 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,510 posts
  • Location:Washington, District of Columbia

Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:15 PM

Holland should be hired as the new GM for Mexico's soccer team.  He's not needed in Detroit anymore.  

 

To answer the OP's question, someone is getting screwed for Cleary.  Either Nyquist is sent to GR, or Tatar will be traded / goes to Europe.

 

Explain to me why it has to be one of those two options and not an Eaves trade, or a Tootoo trade, or some package of trades?  We're 2.3 million over the cap.  Trade Tootoo (1.9 million) and Lashoff (725,000) and we're cap compliant.  Trade Eaves and put Helm on LTIR and we're cap compliant.  Trade Eaves, put Helm on LTIR, and waive Sammy and Tootoo and we're cap AND roster compliant.

 

There are a bunch of different scenarios to be played out, so why is it you're so sure that this will effect Nyquist or Tatar and nobody else?


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#65 shoobiedoobin

shoobiedoobin

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 348 posts

Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:19 PM

 

Explain to me why it has to be one of those two options and not an Eaves trade, or a Tootoo trade, or some package of trades?  We're 2.3 million over the cap.  Trade Tootoo (1.9 million) and Lashoff (725,000) and we're cap compliant.  Trade Eaves and put Helm on LTIR and we're cap compliant.  Trade Eaves, put Helm on LTIR, and waive Sammy and Tootoo and we're cap AND roster compliant.

 

There are a bunch of different scenarios to be played out, so why is it you're so sure that this will effect Nyquist or Tatar and nobody else?

Because panic is therapeutic. For GMR, doomspeak is therapy. Think about it like that and suddenly almost every single post he's ever made makes sense.


Edited by shoobiedoobin, 12 September 2013 - 06:22 PM.


#66 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 21,064 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:50 PM

 

Explain to me why it has to be one of those two options and not an Eaves trade, or a Tootoo trade, or some package of trades?  We're 2.3 million over the cap.  Trade Tootoo (1.9 million) and Lashoff (725,000) and we're cap compliant.  Trade Eaves and put Helm on LTIR and we're cap compliant.  Trade Eaves, put Helm on LTIR, and waive Sammy and Tootoo and we're cap AND roster compliant.

 

There are a bunch of different scenarios to be played out, so why is it you're so sure that this will effect Nyquist or Tatar and nobody else?

 

Why would anyone want to trade for those players?  Those types of guys are available in every team's farm system, or in free agency.  Not saying it might not happen, but it seems pointless for anyone to trade for an Eaves.  Also, if waiving Sammy was easy, why didn't they already do it?    

 

If they're signing Cleary just to have depth and make him a healthy scratch all season, it's a different story, but with Babcock's man love for Cleary, I have a hard time seeing that.  

 

Whether we're cap compliant isn't what I'm worried about.  It's the idea that once again an old fogey is taking attention and icetime away from younger players who may or may not be the future of this team.   We know Cleary isn't.  

 

Because panic is therapeutic. For GMR, doomspeak is therapy. Think about it like that and suddenly almost every single post he's ever made makes sense.

 

a-strangelove_0.jpg


According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#67 unsaddleddonald

unsaddleddonald

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 748 posts

Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:24 PM

Good god, by the talk around here you'd think Babcock or Holland already came out and said Tatar will certainly be gone.  Why is it that everyone thinks this will adversely affect Tatar and not Eaves, Tootoo, Miller, Bertuzzi, or Samuelsson? 

 

Oh I know, because as the last 10+ years of free agency and trade deadlines have shown us, the Detroit Red Wings constantly throw away quality prospects right?

 

Kinda jumping the gun aren't we guys?

 

Good god, by the talk around here you'd think Babcock or Holland already came out and said Tatar will certainly be gone.  Why is it that everyone thinks this will adversely affect Tatar and not Eaves, Tootoo, Miller, Bertuzzi, or Samuelsson? 

 

Oh I know, because as the last 10+ years of free agency and trade deadlines have shown us, the Detroit Red Wings constantly throw away quality prospects right?

 

Kinda jumping the gun aren't we guys?

 

Not when you take into account Babcock's track record of favoring veterans over kids.

 

St. James tweeted that an initial plan was to have Cleary on the top line with Pav and Hank.

 

...REALLY?!? A guy who no one wanted is going to be a 1st liner for us?!?! K....



#68 blgillett

blgillett

    Stevie the one and only Captian

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,103 posts
  • Location:Ludington Mi

Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:57 PM

 
I know some one said you already forgot Tootoo, but as well you forgot eaves and emmerton... all are still currently on our roster hahaha what a mess...

Speculation is that all three will be gone
"He was standing there like a cigar store Indian" Mickey Redmond
"Holmstrom gets more attention around the net than a pretty girl around closing time!" Mickey Redmond
IPB Image

#69 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,945 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:17 PM

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!!


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#70 AtomicPunk

AtomicPunk

    Nobody rules these streets at night like me...

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,104 posts
  • Location:Home of the Wings

Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:21 PM

Speculation is that all three will be gone

Where have you seen this speculation, and who speculated it?


I am a victim of the science age...the underground.

Feed the Swede! - RETIRED 2012

#71 fixxxer

fixxxer

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 601 posts

Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:37 PM

...I am speechless that Ken Holland is dumb enough to sign Cleary what a waste of a decent off season. I'm embarrassed for Holland complete lack of self control to sign these types of players.



#72 brett

brett

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,133 posts
  • Location:NJ

Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:40 PM

better not

 

 

guy had 16 goals in the playoffs and 4 goals in 14 games with the wings. cleary had 9 in 48 games

 

would be one of the best 3rd lines in the league IMO nyquist andy/helm tatar. speeeeeeed and skill



#73 Doc Holliday

Doc Holliday

    LGW's impromptu Photoshopper

  • Silver Booster
  • 4,341 posts

Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:42 PM

 

Why would anyone want to trade for those players?  Those types of guys are available in every team's farm system, or in free agency.  Not saying it might not happen, but it seems pointless for anyone to trade for an Eaves.  Also, if waiving Sammy was easy, why didn't they already do it?    

 

If they're signing Cleary just to have depth and make him a healthy scratch all season, it's a different story, but with Babcock's man love for Cleary, I have a hard time seeing that.  

 

Whether we're cap compliant isn't what I'm worried about.  It's the idea that once again an old fogey is taking attention and icetime away from younger players who may or may not be the future of this team.   We know Cleary isn't.  

 

 

a-strangelove_0.jpg

Exactly why I am not happy with this deal.

 

Yeah, this deal made me so annoyed I got my old account and hopped on back.


Posted Image


#74 ShanahanMan

ShanahanMan

    DUUUUUUUUH

  • Silver Booster
  • 5,783 posts
  • Location:Michigan, then Los Angeles, now Tokyo, Japan

Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:47 PM

Wouldn't they have to send Nyquist to GR for another year (I'm sure he'll be thrilled with that) AND put Helm on long term IR just to get Tatar a spot?




I HATE JASON WILLIAMS

#75 Detroit # 1 Fan

Detroit # 1 Fan

    Truculence.

  • HoF Booster
  • 19,094 posts
  • Location:St John's

Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:16 PM

I love Dano, and I'm happy he's back for the sheer fact we share a similar bloodline, but Tatar needs to play this season. The guy was the friggin AHL playoff MVP at 22 years old. See, I know I'm no NHL GM or anything, but that screams "NHL READY" to me. Nyquist and Tatar should be playing with Zetterberg and Datsyuk to learn how to be good pros, and maybe even stars. The same way Zetterberg and Datsyuk learned from Hull, Shanahan and Yzerman. It's a transition phase, we're gonna see even more of it when Jurco, Pulkkinen and Frk are ready... Oh ya and f*** you Sammy for still being on the team!!!


#NOMOREKINDL


#76 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,261 posts

Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:33 PM

samuelsson to anyone for nothing..?  (i don't know if they'd be getting enough in return though)


He has a no trade clause.

#77 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,945 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:45 PM

I must have missed the memo stating Tatar is getting traded/waived/screwed.

 

How everyone has made this about Tatar is dumbfounding. 

 

Now if you're complaining about bringing back Cleary over Brunner, that's understandable. Cause you know....THAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

 

Quit jumping the gun and getting all enraged over things that haven't even occurred.  


He has a no trade clause.

 

As I stated before...Send him to the minors if he declines a trade. That relief (I know its not his full salary) and the relief from Helm being on IR puts us under the cap. by close to a million with just one more roster spot to clear.

 

People are making this situation a lot more dramatic than it needs to be. Depth is a good thing people. Weeds out whoever is at the bottom whether that be Emmerton, Eaves, Tootoo, Sammy or anyone else.

 

We don't even need a trading partner to make it work.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#78 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,261 posts

Posted 12 September 2013 - 10:17 PM

Explain to me why it has to be one of those two options and not an Eaves trade, or a Tootoo trade, or some package of trades?  We're 2.3 million over the cap.  Trade Tootoo (1.9 million) and Lashoff (725,000) and we're cap compliant.  Trade Eaves and put Helm on LTIR and we're cap compliant.  Trade Eaves, put Helm on LTIR, and waive Sammy and Tootoo and we're cap AND roster compliant.
 
There are a bunch of different scenarios to be played out, so why is it you're so sure that this will effect Nyquist or Tatar and nobody else?


Because the Wings have such a long history of giving young players an opportunity and trading/waving veterans? They have been over the cap and roster limit since the signing of Alfredsson and Weiss. So to get cap relief, he signs another aging,injured, over the hill veteran when there's already no room on the roster. Tatar was already the "odd man out" in training camp lines. He was called up this past season and played well, but yet was still sent down. It's hardly unreasonable to think that the Wings management would part with a younger player over a "loyal" veteran.

#79 Nightfall

Nightfall

    My goal is to deny yours!

  • Gold Booster
  • 3,770 posts
  • Location:Grand Rapids

Posted 12 September 2013 - 10:18 PM

 

What more can he do to prove he's NHL ready? He won the playoff MVP. He's watched players leap frog him on the depth chart. He had more points than Nyquist when he got sent back down. 

 

Seriously, if I got s*** on repeatedly like that I'd leave too. There's 29 teams that would sign him in a second.

Which is why he won't hit waivers.  We are talking about the playoff MVP here.  He will be playing with the Wings.  If anything, the wings will send Nyquist down.


Christopher Brian Dudek
My Domain

#80 Jesusberg

Jesusberg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,817 posts
  • Location:Toronto, Ontario

Posted 12 September 2013 - 10:20 PM

I must have missed the memo stating Tatar is getting traded/waived/screwed.

 

How everyone has made this about Tatar is dumbfounding. 

 

Now if you're complaining about bringing back Cleary over Brunner, that's understandable. Cause you know....THAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

 

Quit jumping the gun and getting all enraged over things that haven't even occurred.  


 

As I stated before...Send him to the minors if he declines a trade. That relief (I know its not his full salary) and the relief from Helm being on IR puts us under the cap. by close to a million with just one more roster spot to clear.

 

People are making this situation a lot more dramatic than it needs to be. Depth is a good thing people. Weeds out whoever is at the bottom whether that be Emmerton, Eaves, Tootoo, Sammy or anyone else.

 

We don't even need a trading partner to make it work.

 

You mean the 100K of relief that would provide? Detroit would still be taking on 2.9 million of Samuelsson's cap hit.

 

http://www.capgeek.c...us-contract.php

 

 

 

Players who sign multi-year contracts when they are age 35 or older (calculated on June 30 of the season the contract begins) count toward the cap under all circumstances, regardless of where (or if) the player is playing. The only cap relief is $100,000 from the player's cap hit if he is assigned to the minors after the first year of the contract or in the event of a buyout.


What happens when Helm returns? Real cap hit and real bodies need to be moved out. Helm on LTIR, Eaves and Tootoo actually traded (Not sure who'd want them. Have to hope for injury issues in training camps). Even then, guys are playing on lines they're not suited for (my opinion).

The roster is a cluster**** at the moment. I think this team needs to get a little lucky in the next three weeks.


Edited by Jesusberg, 12 September 2013 - 10:20 PM.






Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users