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Jensen out till December/January after fight with Tyler Bertuzzi


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#21 ForzaVerde

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

I saw what happened, he slashed, cross checked and talked s*** to a fellow red wings prospect, then after he got the reaction he wanted proceeded to injure him. 


I agree with you. There is nothing to be gained from preseason agitation / intrasquad fighting. If a coach needs to see you goad s teammate and then fight him, you're not going to make it. Do you think Kocur or Probert had to beat up Konstantinov so the coaches knew they could fight? They know by now what Bert 2 brings to the table. He should not be instigating his teammates.

#22 number9

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:49 PM

I agree with you. There is nothing to be gained from preseason agitation / intrasquad fighting. If a coach needs to see you goad s teammate and then fight him, you're not going to make it. Do you think Kocur or Probert had to beat up Konstantinov so the coaches knew they could fight? They know by now what Bert 2 brings to the table. He should not be instigating his teammates.

You think an 18 year old who's never played higher than the CHL has nothing to prove?

 

First, he's new to the organization and has to show where he stacks up against our other prospects. Second, Bertuzzi is not big at all by NHL standards and will be expected to: hit, agitate, and fight. Add that to the pressure of being a 2nd round draft choice, and add that to the pressure of the name on his back. I'm sure some among the Wings - and this forum - believe he was only drafted so high because of his uncle, or that it at least influenced the decision. All our prospects have a lot to prove, particularly Bertuzzi.

 

It's also his job. He agitates. That's what he's good at, and it was made pretty clear by the Wings that that's what they brought him in for and wanted out of him. Did you want him to skate around like a plug and just go through the motions? He's a professional athlete at his first ever NHL prospect camp. He did what he does best, gets under the skin of an opposing defender almost 5 years his senior.

 

Regardless of whether you thought he was too aggressive, he did not start the fight. He did not attempt to injury anyone. All he did was chirp and push Jensen around. If anything this incident should be demerit on Jensen. He lost his cool under pressure, chose to initiate the fight, and got injured for that choice. Lesson learned: Don't let the Marchand's, Raymonds, Avery's, and Bertuzzi's of the world get to you or your probably going to make dumb decisions on the ice. Like losing your composure and getting a dumb injury for it.

 

I believe it was Jalen Rose who used to research his opponents personal lives before games so he could chirp them about it and get in their heads. IMO, smack talk is far worse in hockey. If Jensen can't handle the heat he needs to get out of the kitchen.

 

When it comes down to it, I'm sure the choice words management had for Bertuzzi was that he needs to make peace with Jensen off the ice.



#23 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:36 AM

Please! Injuries happen. Fellow Red Wings prospect, really? These guys are fighting for a limited number of spots. They are not team mates and they dont give a s*** about being drafted by the same organization till they make the team, nor should they. 1-0 Tyler Bertuzzi.
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#24 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:15 AM

If you make a name for yourself playing rough and being an agitator, and it gets you drafted, that team drafted you as an agitator. 

 

What were the expectations here, Bert JR. shows up to camp and is supposed to flush away everything that got him there to begin with? The reason why he was drafted? 

 

If you work in a warehouse, you interview a potential manager, they show you their managing skills to get hired. You interview a potential electrician they show you their electrician skills to get hired.

 

The manager doesn't show you how well he can widdle wood, or the electrician their cooking skills. It's irrelevant to why they are their applying to begin with to fill that company's needs.

 

You draft a goon they show you your goon skills to try and make the team, the camp is the interview process. If you show up as a goon and pretend to be a skilled hockey player you sit unemployed for a long time. Bert Jr. did nothing wrong, injuries happen, it's the nature of physical sports. The entire point of being at a prospect camp is to show off your skill set, regardless if it's a scorer, a playmaker, or an agitator. 


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#25 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:34 AM

I'm gonna like Tyler Bertuzzi. Good for Jensen for dropping the mits and trying to get him to piss off, so he got hurt? He'll be back in the new year and if Grand Rapids are where they were last year it'll be just in time to help down the stretch.


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#26 Dabura

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:42 AM

Funny thing about the younger Bertuzzi is that he's actually got a very nice skill set (good skater, passer etc.) He's just so hung-up on agitating and fighting and being a tough guy. It'll be interesting to see how he's' brought along and what his all-around maturation will mean for his game.


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#27 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:28 AM

So let me see if I get this right.....We like lil Bert and what he would bring but we don't like Tootoo and what he brings???


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#28 sleepwalker

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:36 AM

So let me see if I get this right.....We like lil Bert and what he would bring but we don't like Tootoo and what he brings???

 

Making sweeping generalizations based upon the very small but vocal minority always makes one sound intelligent.  ALWAYS!



#29 ForzaVerde

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:00 AM

So if we bring up an enforcer, we should expect him to KO a few teammates each training camp because "that's what he does"?? Aggitating is not some highly prized skill we need someone to showcase. It's probably the LEAST valueable thing the Red Wings need, and I bet that's why Tootoo doesnt get much PT here. There's a big difference between playing physical + being defensively responsible (Datsyuk/Helm) and being a pest to play against but someone the other team can score on (Tootoo). I want the Wings to be more physical, but seeing them bicker and fight in practice with each other doesnt accomplish that. "Well, he's a police officer. So you cant blame him for arresting his kids for not eating their vegetables." "Well, he was brought in here to kill termites. So we cant blame him for poisoning our dogs." The "that's what he does argument" makes me laugh.

#30 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:15 AM

 

Making sweeping generalizations based upon the very small but vocal minority always makes one sound intelligent.  ALWAYS!

Oh I'm sorry. This was really directed towards a few people but in the past we have been warned for using certain posters names in posts which could be seen as personal attacks.

 

I apologize for not being more specific, but I really want to avoid calling anyone out and getting in trouble. Hence, the general statement.


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#31 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:30 AM

So if we bring up an enforcer, we should expect him to KO a few teammates each training camp because "that's what he does"?? Aggitating is not some highly prized skill we need someone to showcase. It's probably the LEAST valueable thing the Red Wings need, and I bet that's why Tootoo doesnt get much PT here. There's a big difference between playing physical + being defensively responsible (Datsyuk/Helm) and being a pest to play against but someone the other team can score on (Tootoo). I want the Wings to be more physical, but seeing them bicker and fight in practice with each other doesnt accomplish that. "Well, he's a police officer. So you cant blame him for arresting his kids for not eating their vegetables." "Well, he was brought in here to kill termites. So we cant blame him for poisoning our dogs." The "that's what he does argument" makes me laugh.

these guys are not team mates, they are fighting for a spot.
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#32 ForzaVerde

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:46 AM

these guys are not team mates, they are fighting for a spot.


It looks like they both have the same logo on their jerseys in the fight clip. Organizationmates, if you will, then.

#33 number9

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:51 AM

It looks like they both have the same logo on their jerseys in the fight clip. Organizationmates, if you will, then.

Maybe Jensen shouldn't have dropped the gloves then eh?



#34 ogreslayer

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:23 PM

Please! Injuries happen. Fellow Red Wings prospect, really? These guys are fighting for a limited number of spots. They are not team mates and they dont give a s*** about being drafted by the same organization till they make the team, nor should they. 1-0 Tyler Bertuzzi.

 

Given that they play different positions & Jensen already has his spot i.e. an entry level contract and is on the 50 man roster, I wouldn't really say this was about both of them flighting for a limited number of spots.  I still do think that the term "boneheaded" applies to both of them in this situation.



#35 ForzaVerde

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:57 PM

 
Given that they play different positions & Jensen already has his spot i.e. an entry level contract and is on the 50 man roster, I wouldn't really say this was about both of them flighting for a limited number of spots.  I still do think that the term "boneheaded" applies to both of them in this situation.


Well said. Both made a stupid decision to fight. But why is there any agitating going on in a scrimmage.

#36 Tman77

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:05 PM


 

Regardless of whether you thought he was too aggressive, he did not start the fight. He did not attempt to injury anyone. All he did was chirp and push Jensen around. If anything this incident should be demerit on Jensen.

Forza is correct. What, now goons have free reign to beat the s*** out of everyone in camp? I can see it now: Babs - Hey Mantha, our goons are, well, goons and they do goon things like beat the s*** out of people? You ok with getting the snot knocked outta ya? You are? Great! I knew there was a reason we drafted ya!! :P

 

And btw, Tyler did more than just "chirp and push". He crosschecked the hell out of Jensen`s back, head and arms a few dozen times on top of the rest of the physical and verbal sparring. Were you there to see the entire episode? You ever get crosschecked by a hockey stick? I don`t blame Jensen one bit for drawing a line and showing he wasn`t going to take it anymore.

 

If you want to get technical, they were both at fault but it was Tyler that harassed Jensen over and over. Why? Dunno. Maybe Jensen beat him on a play and Tyler got embarrassed. Either way, the injury is proof as to why we don`t need it in camp. Of course there will be a little roughhousing but what happens when we draft the "next one" and we let our goons be, well goons, and the great promise of a great career is suddenly halted or even stopped? I`d rather be cautious and prevent any possible injuries in the first place.



#37 Dabura

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:25 PM

So let me see if I get this right.....We like lil Bert and what he would bring but we don't like Tootoo and what he brings???

 

Hell, I like 'em both. I do think Tyler's going to be a better all-around player, though.


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#38 ForzaVerde

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:49 PM

You brought 2 fire engines and sprayed down the whole house because the guy turned on his bbq?

"We're firemen. Hello? That's what we do."

If this was Sproul or Ouelette, I'm certain we'd all think alike.

#39 number9

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:52 PM

Forza is correct. What, now goons have free reign to beat the s*** out of everyone in camp? I can see it now: Babs - Hey Mantha, our goons are, well, goons and they do goon things like beat the s*** out of people? You ok with getting the snot knocked outta ya? You are? Great! I knew there was a reason we drafted ya!! :P

 

And btw, Tyler did more than just "chirp and push". He crosschecked the hell out of Jensen`s back, head and arms a few dozen times on top of the rest of the physical and verbal sparring. Were you there to see the entire episode? You ever get crosschecked by a hockey stick? I don`t blame Jensen one bit for drawing a line and showing he wasn`t going to take it anymore.

 

If you want to get technical, they were both at fault but it was Tyler that harassed Jensen over and over. Why? Dunno. Maybe Jensen beat him on a play and Tyler got embarrassed. Either way, the injury is proof as to why we don`t need it in camp. Of course there will be a little roughhousing but what happens when we draft the "next one" and we let our goons be, well goons, and the great promise of a great career is suddenly halted or even stopped? I`d rather be cautious and prevent any possible injuries in the first place.

 

Nice strawman.

 

Do you really think anyone here believes "goons" should have "free reign" at prospect camp? Or were you just exaggerating my argument? I'll assume the later.

 

Fighting at prospect camp is an obvious negative for the team, and I don't support it. I also don't support dangerous hits, or plays of that nature, that can easily lead to injury at prospect camp. However, I do support chirping and all the other rough stuff at camp.

My point was that Tuzzi is an agitator. That's how he plays hockey. I don't think any coach would ever tell a player, even at prospect camp, "Hey, don't do your job out there. Don't play your style of game. Don't give everything you've got." From what I saw Bertuzzi ran his mouth, played his in your face style, and threw a few cross-checks. All of which are part of the game. He didn't make a dangerous play or even initiate the fight. I think as an "agitating forward" (not a goon) he's well within his right to play as such.

 

I respect Jensen for not putting up with it, and dropping the gloves to try and give lil bert a spanking, but ultimately the decision to fight was his. You chirp back, match his roughness, beat him on a play, but you don't fight at a prospect camp.



#40 Tman77

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:29 PM

 

Nice strawman.

 

Do you really think anyone here believes "goons" should have "free reign" at prospect camp? Or were you just exaggerating my argument? I'll assume the later.

 

Fighting at prospect camp is an obvious negative for the team, and I don't support it. I also don't support dangerous hits, or plays of that nature, that can easily lead to injury at prospect camp. However, I do support chirping and all the other rough stuff at camp.

My point was that Tuzzi is an agitator. That's how he plays hockey. I don't think any coach would ever tell a player, even at prospect camp, "Hey, don't do your job out there. Don't play your style of game. Don't give everything you've got." From what I saw Bertuzzi ran his mouth, played his in your face style, and threw a few cross-checks. All of which are part of the game. He didn't make a dangerous play or even initiate the fight. I think as an "agitating forward" (not a goon) he's well within his right to play as such.

 

I respect Jensen for not putting up with it, and dropping the gloves to try and give lil bert a spanking, but ultimately the decision to fight was his. You chirp back, match his roughness, beat him on a play, but you don't fight at a prospect camp.

Strawman lol.

 

The beginning of the post was towards what a few posters above had said. I quoted you because you said "All he did was chirp and push Jensen around". No, Tyler did more than that. A good bit more. I was there and saw it go down. Tyler went a little bit farther than he should have for whatever reason. Tyler also has a skill side to him. His knock on him is that he concentrates too much on the "agitator" part. He should be "showcasing" his other talents in camp if he wants to impress the coaches.

 

With that said, I`m pulling for Tyler. I hope he makes the team in a few years. I love Bert and hope his nephew follows in his footsteps.







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