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Nyquist taking things in stride, with class


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#41 kipwinger

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 02:52 AM

Cleary gets way more ice time than Goose and has also played with Dats and Z.  Apples and oranges...


Cleary needs to go too.  He sucks.  I don't know if I mentioned it in any threads today, but I'd like to go on record stating that Cleary sucks.  A Wings roster without him may bring tears of joy.

 

You're right, and he produces way more than Nyquist for slightly more money, so I don't see what you're getting at?   


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#42 Euro_Twins

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 08:40 AM

 

You're right, and he produces way more than Nyquist for slightly more money, so I don't see what you're getting at?   

 

15 points in 48 games compared to Goose's 6 points in 22 games is not way more. The only place he was really out produced was the playoffs, but again, ice time



#43 kipwinger

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 08:52 AM

 

15 points in 48 games compared to Goose's 6 points in 22 games is not way more. The only place he was really out produced was the playoffs, but again, ice time

 

Wait, are we using Cleary's clutch playoff performances against him now?  Do the playoffs not count?  Also I fail to see your point about ice time.  Everybody is supposed to produce more with more ice time, if Cleary didn't then I'd say he's not worth his money.  Given more ice time, he produces more.  That's what he's supposed to do. 

 

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Cleary is as skilled as Nyquist, he's not.  But he produces consistently, and when paired with quality linemates he produces pretty well.  He's definitely worth his money.  However, I do have a problem with those that think Nyquist is somehow entitled to a top six spot based on his skill alone.  He has by no means shown (so far) that he's capable of producing even at Hudler or Filppula levels given third line minutes, and yet many are clamoring for him to get promoted to the top six. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#44 Dabura

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 05:15 PM

kip, you're being a partypooper.

 

All Nyquist has done is destroy the AHL and play a key role in this past postseason run with the Wings (looking like far and away one of the best, most effective forwards on this team in the process). True, he hasn't "produced like Cleary," but he's also had a fraction of the time and opportunity Cleary's had.

 

He's the future, and the future is now. And the future is...sitting in Grand Rapids. And that is ridiculous. No voodoo rhetoric here. No extremist agenda. Just logic, or common sense, or whatever you want to call it. A really good up-and-comer deserves a spot on a roster that's overloaded with scrubs and plugs, guys who overall aren't as good and effective as said youngster. And, I mean, aren't the Wings all about building from within? Hasn't that been Holland's Big Thing for a good long while now? Young talent! Prospects! Youth! Homegrown talent! Drafting! The future!

 

WHILE MY GITTAH GENTLY WEEPS


Edited by Dabura, 12 October 2013 - 05:51 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#45 kipwinger

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 05:38 PM

kip, you're being a partypooper.

 

All Nyquist has done is destroy the AHL and play a key role in this past postseason run with the Wings (looking like far and away one of the best, most effective forwards on this team in the process). True, he hasn't "produced like Cleary," but he's also had a fraction of the time and opportunity Cleary's had.

 

He's the future, and the future is now. And the future is...sitting in Grand Rapids. And that is ridiculous. No voodoo rhetoric here. No extremist agenda. Just logic, or common sense, or whatever you want to call it. A really good up-and-comer deserves a spot on a roster that's overloaded with scrubs and plugs, guys who overall aren't as good and effective said youngster. And, I mean, aren't the Wings all about building from within? Hasn't that been Holland's Big Thing for a good long while now? Young talent! Prospects! Youth! Homegrown talent! Drafting! The future!

 

WHILE MY GITTAH GENTLY WEEPS

 

I don't disagree with any of that.  My initial reason for comparing Cleary and Nyquist was simply to suggest that many here at LGW are ready to cut Cleary loose, in spite of his value (and particularly value for money) and give his spot to Nyquist.  But if we're being objective, we have to admit to ourselves that Nyquist has hardly set the world on fire (thus far) in the NHL.  Brunner produced better during his time in Detroit, so did Tatar.  But we keep talking about Nyquist as if he's next in line.  He isn't.  He'll get his opportunity, and hopefully he'll make good on it.  But we also shouldn't be so quick to throw the baby out with the bath water.  Cleary still has a lot of value to this team.

 

FYI, if you look at the lines thread made before the start of this season you'll see my ideal line combos.  They are worth repeating here,  to give you an idea about where I see Cleary AND Nyquist fitting into this team

 

Z-Dats-Abby

Alfie-Weiss-Franzen

Nyquist-Andersson-Tatar

Cleary-Emmy (Helm when ready)-Miller

Bertuzzi-Eaves


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#46 marcaractac

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 05:44 PM

Nyquist will get his chance. It's 4 games into the season. People need to be more patient. Do I think he should be with the big club? Yes. And he will be when there is room for him. Like I said. It's 4 whole games into the season. 

 

He, along with Tatar, will get their permanent spots in the lineup when they earn them. They will see time in the bottom 6 before they ever work their way up to the top 6. They won't be handed out based on what they did in the AHL. I'm convinced that come playoff time we will see Tatar-Helm-Gus. I do see them earning a spot in the lineup by that time. Just be patient and they will get there. 

 

The team has a lot of competition up front. It will prove to be a good problem to have, even though most can't see that right now. 



#47 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 05:58 PM

Nyquist will get his chance. It's 4 games into the season. People need to be more patient. Do I think he should be with the big club? Yes. And he will be when there is room for him. Like I said. It's 4 whole games into the season. 

 

He, along with Tatar, will get their permanent spots in the lineup when they earn them. They will see time in the bottom 6 before they ever work their way up to the top 6. They won't be handed out based on what they did in the AHL. I'm convinced that come playoff time we will see Tatar-Helm-Gus. I do see them earning a spot in the lineup by that time. Just be patient and they will get there. 

 

The team has a lot of competition up front. It will prove to be a good problem to have, even though most can't see that right now. 

 

The problem most of us have, I think, is that Babcock isn't even giving them the OPPORTUNITY to earn a spot. 

 

Tatar was given 9 4th line minutes. Meanwhile, Bertuzzi and Cleary are providing nothing to the team. 

 

His stubbornness is driving us absolutely...positively...CRAZY!!!



#48 kipwinger

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:03 PM

 

The problem most of us have, I think, is that Babcock isn't even giving them the OPPORTUNITY to earn a spot. 

 

Tatar was given 9 4th line minutes. Meanwhile, Bertuzzi and Cleary are providing nothing to the team. 

 

His stubbornness is driving us absolutely...positively...CRAZY!!!

 

It drives me crazy too, but because the opportunity was not there in the first four games doesn't mean it won't come.  The Tatar situation is a little bit more frustrating than Nyquist because he COULD theoretically be playing every night.  But in light of the roster and cap crunch, the fact that Nyquist hasn't played makes sense.  You've got to assume that sooner, rather than later, someone will be waived or traded.  The problem is, if you don't give guys like Sammy, Tootoo, and eventually Eaves some playing time, nobody is going to trade for them or pick them up off waivers and if any (or all) of them pass through without getting picked up then we still don't have the cap space to bring up Nyquist.  For the time being these guys need to be showcased.  Then, once they've shown they have value, or once some other team is so plagued by injuries that they have no choice but to claim a guy off waivers or trade for him, Nyquist's time will come. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#49 marcaractac

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:04 PM

 

The problem most of us have, I think, is that Babcock isn't even giving them the OPPORTUNITY to earn a spot. 

 

Tatar was given 9 4th line minutes. Meanwhile, Bertuzzi and Cleary are providing nothing to the team. 

 

His stubbornness is driving us absolutely...positively...CRAZY!!!

 

Please enlighten me. How can they get Gus into the lineup right now? 

 

Bert and Cleary have their place on this team. Especially Cleary. 

 

Get used to the likes of Tatar getting 4th line minutes. Minutes have to be earned, not given out because people on an internet forum demand it. 

 

Gus and Tatar both had chances to show they can be impact players. They have been solid, but it will take time before they become the players everyone seems to think they already are at the NHL level. 

 

In the end, it's a long season. It's gonna take a dozen games or so for each team to begin to show the kind of team they will be the rest of the season. Nothing to worry about at this point. 



#50 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:24 PM

 

Please enlighten me. How can they get Gus into the lineup right now? 

 

Bert and Cleary have their place on this team. Especially Cleary. 

 

Get used to the likes of Tatar getting 4th line minutes. Minutes have to be earned, not given out because people on an internet forum demand it. 

 

Gus and Tatar both had chances to show they can be impact players. They have been solid, but it will take time before they become the players everyone seems to think they already are at the NHL level. 

 

In the end, it's a long season. It's gonna take a dozen games or so for each team to begin to show the kind of team they will be the rest of the season. Nothing to worry about at this point. 

 

This argument won't go anywhere. 

 

I'm just frustrated. I get that the situations or players aren't the same, but it irks me when a 19 year old plays on a top line in San Jose and scores 4 goals. 



#51 marcaractac

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:29 PM

 

This argument won't go anywhere. 

 

I'm just frustrated. I get that the situations or players aren't the same, but it irks me when a 19 year old plays on a top line in San Jose and scores 4 goals. 

 

He is also a big body who will have an easier time adjusting to playing in the NHL. IT is not so easy for smaller players like Tatar and Gus. Take out the likes of Bertuzzi and Cleary and swap them with the kids, and the Wings become a much smaller and weaker team with no balance. 

 

Gus and Tatar will earn their spots when they learn how to play big. It will happen over time, not over night.



#52 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:35 PM

 

He is also a big body who will have an easier time adjusting to playing in the NHL. IT is not so easy for smaller players like Tatar and Gus. Take out the likes of Bertuzzi and Cleary and swap them with the kids, and the Wings become a much smaller and weaker team with no balance. 

 

Gus and Tatar will earn their spots when they learn how to play big. It will happen over time, not over night.

 

Theoretically, you may be right.

 

But I want to see it for myself. To my knowledge, I don't believe that they have been called up at the same time. In other words, they haven't played on the Wings at the same time yet. 



#53 marcaractac

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:38 PM

 

Theoretically, you may be right.

 

But I want to see it for myself. To my knowledge, I don't believe that they have been called up at the same time. In other words, they haven't played on the Wings at the same time yet. 

 

They definitely haven't, and I myself can't wait until they do. But at this point in time it is gonna take injuries to get them together. I\d also imagine players will start getting moved sooner or later. 

 

At the end of the season the best lineup will be played. And if they beat out other guys, they will be in the lineup. They'll definitely get their chance to show they belong.



#54 Nev

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 03:15 AM

Nyquist with a goal and an assist for the Griffs yesterday...and then the winner in the shoot-out to boot.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#55 Spongewingredpants

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:14 AM

just took a look at cap geek.com so here are some observations:

 

he has two more years on his contract and then he is still an RFA (oldest RFA ever?)

 

capgeek lists him in the column "buried contracts". Yeah, i bet he feels like that too

 

You know, if I was a young player, I would love getting drafted by the Red Wings- Having said that, I would also like to play and make the most out of my career. Increasingly the Red wings are no longer the team of choice for these guys. Its simple math for players. 


My wish: A healthy roster

 

 


#56 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:08 AM

 

You're right, and he produces way more than Nyquist for slightly more money, so I don't see what you're getting at?   

You also missed the part where I stated that Cleary got to play with Dats and Z whereas Nyquist did not.  That would also help produce points playing with the top 2 guys on the team.  Also, being on the PP with them versus not being on the PP at all.


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#57 dat's sick

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:27 AM

just took a look at cap geek.com so here are some observations:

 

he has two more years on his contract and then he is still an RFA (oldest RFA ever?)

 

capgeek lists him in the column "buried contracts". Yeah, i bet he feels like that too

 

You know, if I was a young player, I would love getting drafted by the Red Wings- Having said that, I would also like to play and make the most out of my career. Increasingly the Red wings are no longer the team of choice for these guys. Its simple math for players. 

On the other hand if you're a Red Wing you have a chance to play longer as a veteran. They're loyal, so once you make the team they treat you well. Even after you retire they take care of you. Honestly this situation with Nyquist is not the normal type of situation, it sucks but hopefully it'll be over soon and Gus will be a Wing for years to come. 



#58 Echolalia

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:14 AM

I just want to see Helm centering Tatar and Nyqvist. 



#59 Spongewingredpants

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:55 AM

On the other hand if you're a Red Wing you have a chance to play longer as a veteran. They're loyal, so once you make the team they treat you well. Even after you retire they take care of you. Honestly this situation with Nyquist is not the normal type of situation, it sucks but hopefully it'll be over soon and Gus will be a Wing for years to come. 

kinda like Cleary and Tuzzi........ works well for the young ones


Edited by Spongewingredpants, 24 October 2013 - 03:56 AM.

My wish: A healthy roster

 

 


#60 VM1138

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:28 AM

Tatar doesn't have any size issues. Like Datsyuk, he plays bigger than he is. I don't buy size as a reason he doesn't play.

Nyquist is stuck where he is because of the roster. I don't think Babcock has anything against him like he does seem to have for Tatar.
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