Steve Yzerman wants Game Misconduct penalties for fighting

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

Is this Yzerman's "plan" for trying to save some salary?

[1980s24 12]

I find it a bit ironic that Yzerman wants to do away with fighting when his lightning have one of the most undisciplined goons in Radko Gudas.

[Nev 1,085]

The above broken jaw suffered by Sam Gagne was an 'accidental high stick'.....Just think of what might happen if there was a purposeful swing of a stick at an opponents head?..

Yeah, if only Vancouver had someone on their roster who could fight, this would never have happened!

Honestly, this is the problem with the fight fans argument. There has always been cheap-shotting in the game, just as there has always been fighting. "Making guys answer" with fighting hasn't stopped the cheap shots.

As I think Harald has pointed out, what has caused a noticable change is the suspensions the league has started handing out for hits to the head.

And BTW, I'm not calling for fighting to be banned, although I believe it is inevitable. Its just the exagerrated "fighting helps prevent cancer!!!!" claims of the fight fans that have always annoyed me. I view fighting as like having nuclear weapons - you need them because your opponent has them.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

I find it a bit ironic that Yzerman wants to do away with fighting when his lightning have one of the most undisciplined goons in Radko Gudas.

I wouldn't say Gudas is an "undisciplined goon". However, it is ironic that his team has guys like Pierre-Cedric Labrie and B.J. Crombeen, who don't offer a whole lot other than fighting.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

As this discussion goes on I feel like Yzerman's comments are getting exaggerated, in this thread a little but even in the media. Unless he's made stronger comments I missed?

Because the initial one he's saying something along the lines of what Babcock said. Pointing out the absurd situation the NHL is in right now. Punishing players severely for hits to the head but then allowing them to punch each other in the head. Regardless of if you want fighting in the game or not, I think people can realize that's an odd position for a league to defend.

Khan even goes so far as to say Yzerman wants fighting eliminated from the game completely. Has he actually said anything like that?

[55fan 5,133]

As this discussion goes on I feel like Yzerman's comments are getting exaggerated, in this thread a little but even in the media. Unless he's made stronger comments I missed?

Because the initial one he's saying something along the lines of what Babcock said. Pointing out the absurd situation the NHL is in right now. Punishing players severely for hits to the head but then allowing them to punch each other in the head. Regardless of if you want fighting in the game or not, I think people can realize that's an odd position for a league to defend.

Khan even goes so far as to say Yzerman wants fighting eliminated from the game completely. Has he actually said anything like that?

I was wondering the same thing. From what I understand, he was saying that sterner penalties would reduce the "unnecessary" fighting. (My expression in the quotes, not his.)

Basically, what I got out of it was that he just thought there was too much fighting that didn't need to be there. Kind of like the people who like the fighting, but don't like the enforcers or staged fights.

If anyone has anything more where he's saying that all fighting is bad, please let me know.

[Guest Crymson]

Drew Remenda (color commentator for the Sharks) went on an anti-fighting rant to which the Red Wings were central; he noted that the Wings have been the most successful team from 1995 onward despite having had, by a substantial margin, the lowest number of fights out of any team (expansion teams included) during that period.

[Guest DeGraa55]

Drew Remenda (color commentator for the Sharks) went on an anti-fighting rant to which the Red Wings were central; he noted that the Wings have been the most successful team from 1995 onward despite having had, by a substantial margin, the lowest number of fights out of any team (expansion teams included) during that period.

Also makes for boring hockey while the game is going on. Low scoring games with lots of passing and no checking or fighting is quite boring. That's why as a wings fan I watched eastern conference games almost as much as the wings.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

From CBC:

In an interview with the CBC's Peter Mansbridge Monday that touched on the league's new helmet rule and violence in hockey, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said fighting was "part of the fabric" of hockey.

But, Bettman added change is coming, albeit gradually.

"When we make changes, we respect the tradition" of the game. "You don’t throw a light switch to effectuate change. The game is evolving and we are constantly wrestling with that balance,” Bettman said.

Typical Uncle Gary; he's so full of it his eyes are brown.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

It is just a matter of time before Bettman and company has ruined the game of hockey completely. They will not stop until hockey looks like figureskating.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Drew Remenda (color commentator for the Sharks) went on an anti-fighting rant to which the Red Wings were central; he noted that the Wings have been the most successful team from 1995 onward despite having had, by a substantial margin, the lowest number of fights out of any team (expansion teams included) during that period.

Are the Wings evidence that fighting isn't neccesary, or are they evidence that fighting is neccesary but doesn't need to be used often?

Yeah, if only Vancouver had someone on their roster who could fight, this would never have happened!

Honestly, this is the problem with the fight fans argument. There has always been cheap-shotting in the game, just as there has always been fighting. "Making guys answer" with fighting hasn't stopped the cheap shots.

As I think Harald has pointed out, what has caused a noticable change is the suspensions the league has started handing out for hits to the head.

And BTW, I'm not calling for fighting to be banned, although I believe it is inevitable. Its just the exagerrated "fighting helps prevent cancer!!!!" claims of the fight fans that have always annoyed me. I view fighting as like having nuclear weapons - you need them because your opponent has them.

I don't think anyone has argued that fighting would stop all cheap shots- if it did, why would there be fighting? It may be a more 'fair' alternative to more reckless plays.

Edited October 4, 2013 by WorkingOvertime

[Opie 308]

I was listening to the B's on the radio last night, so I didn't get to see what led to Thornton and Labrie going at it, but from the radio broadcast it did not seem like the scrum at the net(previous shift) was that bad to need a fight.

And if it was that bad, wasn't McQuaid's cross check something worse that should have led to another fight?

Was last night's fight "necessary" (need a better word than that), was that protecting anyone?

Was Labrie really going to town in the scrum in front of the net?

Again I was listening on the radio so these questions are honest!

Edited October 4, 2013 by Opie

[ogreslayer 1,069]

As this discussion goes on I feel like Yzerman's comments are getting exaggerated, in this thread a little but even in the media. Unless he's made stronger comments I missed?

Because the initial one he's saying something along the lines of what Babcock said. Pointing out the absurd situation the NHL is in right now. Punishing players severely for hits to the head but then allowing them to punch each other in the head. Regardless of if you want fighting in the game or not, I think people can realize that's an odd position for a league to defend.

Khan even goes so far as to say Yzerman wants fighting eliminated from the game completely. Has he actually said anything like that?

I wouldn't necessarily say his comments are being exaggerated, it feels more like people are selectively ignoring this part of his comments.

"We're stuck in the middle and need to decide what kind of sport do we want to be. Either anything goes and we accept the consequences, or take the next step and eliminate fighting."

It feels more to me like he's recommending the NHL follow the teaching of modern day philosopher Mike Ehrmantraut... "No half measures".

Edited October 4, 2013 by ogreslayer

[frankgrimes 1,836]

As far as I am concerned the anti-fighting crowd and Bettman can go watch soccer, baseball or basketball. Players are the ones who should know better than everyone else and they've already voted FOR fighting so it's here to say and I am very glad it is. Also, one has to keep in mind how the DetroitRedWings were a much bigger deal a few years ago when we've had guys like Downey, McCarty and Koccur. Yes, the DetroitRedWings were more skilled too but those guys are also great locker-room guys and people other players are feeling better with.

If everything is in the name of player safety and enforcers are providing that everything should be fine.

This stupid league led by an undersized new york based *******, who has no clue about the game is more and more going the way of becoming soccer on ice and yet there are people who are ok with that. The nonsense will only stop once this game has been destroyed once and for all.

I'd rather see no NHL, than an even more dumbed down product (aren't failed franchises, no hipchecks and less hitting enough of a dumbed down)? For the 8 ,3 million a year waste of human being not it seems...when will the owners wake up and kick this guy out of the league.

I am glad, there are teams like the Leafs who are tough, skilled and not getting pushed around easily. I love our rivalry with them but there fourth line should be something other teams should want to recreate too. With guys like Devane, Broll in the minors they can soon ice even a third line from hell...and that's impressive.

Also the stupid Blackhawks are a freaking boring team to watch, rather see the Blues or Kings style.

Edited October 4, 2013 by frankgrimes

[Opie 308]

No hip checks???

Really is that how you see things?

A cup winning team is boring?????

You are an all or nothing type of guy/gal I am assuming.

And you realize Yzerman is not asking for fighting to be abolished? He is asking for stiffer penalties.

But hey who cares if getting punched in the head led to players killing themselves as long as you are entertained.

And if Athletes are so willing to accept the dangers why are there class action suits in the NFL and NCAA because the leagues did not do enough to prevent long term damage from concussions?

Edited October 4, 2013 by Opie

[frankgrimes 1,836]

No hip checks???

Really is that how you see things?

A cup winning team is boring?????

You are an all or nothing type of guy/gal I am assuming.

And you realize Yzerman is not asking for fighting to be abolished? He is asking for stiffer penalties.

But hey who cares if getting punched in the head led to players killing themselves as long as you are entertained.

And if Athletes are so willing to accept the dangers why are there class action suits in the NFL and NCAA because the leagues did not do enough to prevent long term damage from concussions?

Yes that is how I see things. Hip checks are a great thing - like pointed out by F Michael - if they are done right. Yzerman is asking for something that could be the first step and a stupid step!

Maybe just maybe if these guys would also be appreciated by the stupid media and some of the anti-fighting crowd their lifes would be easier? These guys are having the toughest job in the NHL and other than some fans, teammates and coaches they are only reading/hearing how useless they are and that they don't belong to the NHL how about that crap/bs? What happened to Rypien and Belak is horrible but at the end It's not about me or anyone else being entertained, it's about players feeling safe with these guys on the ice, it's about on ice policy and clean up your game or someone is going to come to you. You think a guy like Lucic is trying to run Miller again with John Scott on the Sabres roster? I highly doubt it.

If Lucic runs Howard tonight he has - and will answer - to Tootoo big deal Tootoo has no chance against him, would we have a guy like say Colton Orr he wouldn't even be thinking about that possibility.

Personally couldn't care less what other leagues are doing, this is hockey a different sport the NFL could fold and I wouldn't care so let them do whatever.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

This is all I have to say about the subject. I love the fights, not the staged kind. And, I think Yzerman is wrong and should be more concerned about his team than fighting.

[beachwing 426]

If someone wants to take a run and or cheap shot Howie, Z or Dats...they will do so even if we had Probert, Kocur, on the ice with them.

I am all for retribution!!! And dbags that do dbag s*** should be waxed for 25 games!!!

Fighting does not need to be banished...cheapshots and instigating after clean hits is what needs to stop.

What I hate is the cheap shot bs the last 5 mins of a game....yanno, "sending the message" that even though you whipped our ass tonight, tmmrrw wont be as easy beacuse im gonna fight you tonight after you whipped our ass.

The league could stop all the cheapshots with suspensions and they should.

The league could also stop those talentless goons that choose to try and injure non goons with lengthy suspensions.

I dont recall Mcsorely, Domi, running Stevey.....How many times did Probie pummell someone becuase they ran Stevey....you can count it one hand!

If Lucic or Chara jump Kronwall after he levels Bergeron with a perfectly clean hit...they should get 10 games!

Fighting has a place and if two dudes want to drop and go in nonstaged manor, let em go.

I dont want the game pussified BUT all of hockeys unwritten rules and 'code' are almost as laugjable as baseball.

[The Greek 323]

Maybe just maybe if these guys would also be appreciated by the stupid media and some of the anti-fighting crowd their lifes would be easier? These guys are having the toughest job in the NHL and other than some fans, teammates and coaches they are only reading/hearing how useless they are and that they don't belong to the NHL how about that crap/bs? What happened to Rypien and Belak is horrible but at the end It's not about me or anyone else being entertained, it's about players feeling safe with these guys on the ice, it's about on ice policy and clean up your game or someone is .

Is this a joke? Your pro-fighting stance is due to your concern for the players' safety? I'm sorry, but that does not make any sense. Look at the amount brain damage these guys sustain. For enforcers, drug abuse and alcoholism are common ways to cope with the the crippling depression that often accompanies such brain damage. Read that Boogard article. It features several players who talk about the long term effects, such as the onset of dementia. You cannot say that your position is in the interest of player safety. Despite your denial, your position is based on you being entertained. You even say so in your other posts where you say how you love hockey much more than sports that are less tolerant of fighting. If you really are motivated by player safety, then I encourage you to do some research on the effects of sustaining repeated punches to the head, or you just read some of the stories of former enforcers who have to deal with a severely dimished quality of life due to their lifestyle choice. You will see that hockey does nothing to make the make the game any safer.

Edited October 5, 2013 by The Greek

[FlashyG 1,799]

As far as I am concerned the anti-fighting crowd and Bettman can go watch soccer, baseball or basketball. Players are the ones who should know better than everyone else and they've already voted FOR fighting so it's here to say and I am very glad it is. Also, one has to keep in mind how the DetroitRedWings were a much bigger deal a few years ago when we've had guys like Downey, McCarty and Koccur. Yes, the DetroitRedWings were more skilled too but those guys are also great locker-room guys and people other players are feeling better with.

If everything is in the name of player safety and enforcers are providing that everything should be fine.

This stupid league led by an undersized new york based *******, who has no clue about the game is more and more going the way of becoming soccer on ice and yet there are people who are ok with that. The nonsense will only stop once this game has been destroyed once and for all.

I'd rather see no NHL, than an even more dumbed down product (aren't failed franchises, no hipchecks and less hitting enough of a dumbed down)? For the 8 ,3 million a year waste of human being not it seems...when will the owners wake up and kick this guy out of the league.

I am glad, there are teams like the Leafs who are tough, skilled and not getting pushed around easily. I love our rivalry with them but there fourth line should be something other teams should want to recreate too. With guys like Devane, Broll in the minors they can soon ice even a third line from hell...and that's impressive.

Also the stupid Blackhawks are a freaking boring team to watch, rather see the Blues or Kings style.

Saying those of us who have no problem with game misconducts for fighting should go watch soccer is no different than us saying you should go watch MMA or boxing if you want to watch fights.

What you see as destroying the game will in all likelihood increase the number of viewers and the number of kids playing hockey. Very few fans will actually stop watching hockey when fighting is removed from the game, many say they will, but many also said they'd stop watching over the lockouts yet almost all of them came back.

What you see as "dumbing down" the sport is actually putting the focus back on hockey and drastically improving the product on the ice. If we can get rid of the Colton Orr's of the league and replace them with guys who actually play hockey then the product has been improved considerably.

If the players got to decide everything about how the game worked, they'd still be playing helmetless...sometimes decisions have to be made on their behalf.

Its not a matter of if fighting will be removed from the game its a matter of when. If you really like fighting more than the game itself then you better get your fill in the next few years because like it or not its going to be gone sooner rather than later.

[freshy 181]

Why exactly are those that don't care for fighting in hockey *******? Many of us have played hockey our entire lives. Steve Yzerman certainly isn't a *****. The game is evolving and fighting isn't needed. Hard checking, crisp passing, Datsyukian deking, and multiple other SKILLS are part of the game. There is no "fighting" event in the skills competition. Change is hard. I grew up watching fighting in hockey. I like watching a good fight since it get's the adrenaline going. I think hockey needs to evolve though. I like watching the Wings play & much prefer their style of hockey compared to a team like Anaheim. Those talking about Stevie needing to just worry about running his team don't seem to understand that is what he is trying to do. You think he wants to have to pay for a scrub fighter? The cap is going to force these changes inevitably. I don't think the NHLPA should vote. Their is too much old school "non-fighters are *******, it's tradition, etc.." mentality in the hockey world. If you want to showcase skill, you focus on eliminating scrubs. Do what is right for the sport & the players health.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Here's an interesting take by former NHL'er Chris 'Knuckles' Nilan...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E53SiEJRWIM

Points out how his depression didn't come from the game, or the fighting - it came from substance abuse.

Agreed.

I'm really indifferent to the 'staged' fights, but IMHO there's nothing better than those 'heat of the moment' scraps between players who've been battling hard the entire night, and wish to 'vent'.

It's really easy despite what the soccer mums dads of the world think, fighting is here to stay. It has been part of hockey for a long time and always willwill be. Using horrible accidents or suicides as proof that fighting needs to be gone is just classless.

thanks for posting that

one would think the game is already dumbed down enough, guess some people are only happy f hockey turns into soccer on ice...

also don't give me that players that players safety be if the league would care about the players, there is no way they would reduce goalie pads...

Edited October 6, 2013 by frankgrimes

[Guest Playmaker]

Bob Probert and Derek Boogaard were both found to have CTE after their deaths. Depression is a major symptom. Unfortunately, it can only be diagnosed after death. The bottom line is money and liability. Fighting has already been reduced and the trend will continue.

[Nev 1,085]

Here's an interesting take by former NHL'er Chris 'Knuckles' Nilan...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E53SiEJRWIM

Points out how his depression didn't come from the game, or the fighting - it came from substance abuse.

Oh, it was the drugs and the booze that made him depressed, that's OK then *facepalm*

So the next obvious question is - why was he on the drugs and the booze? In fact why do so many enforcers have problems with drugs and alcohol? Why is drug addiction and alcoholism so much more prevalent amongst them than regular NHL players?

[Hey man nice shot! 144]

getting kicked after a fight maybe, getting rid of fighting all together is a bit extreme.