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Steve Yzerman wants Game Misconduct penalties for fighting


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#41 The Greek

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:31 PM

 
It wouldn't? Guys like Kaleta (nice to meet him tonight without an enforcer...), Cooke, Torres and other over the line rats would have a field day with younger and star players because they won't have to answer to qualityguys like Orr, McGrattan, MacIntyre, McLaren, Engelland or Thornton or Scott.
 
Like I said if people hate fighting that much, there are other sports to watch..Yes hitting is part of the game and that's why this stupid front-office and the department for players safety has been to remove it from the game, with ridiculous rules.


Nothing but inference. There is ZERO proof that having fighters prevents cheap shots.

I watch hockey because I love hockey. I've played the game my whole life. I don't really care about the fighting. If you love fighting so much, why don't you watch MMA?

#42 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:48 PM

How can you say guys know the risks when you have boneheads like Cherry saying, hey look at me, I got in fights, and I'm fine.  Did they think they'd get a broken nose, or a black eye or a headache for a day or two?  Sure, I'm sure they knew that.  Did they know they could get severe depression or dementia or have debilitating headaches for the rest of their lives amongst other things?  I don't think so.

The players take those same risks by playing hockey in general- Pronger and Savard are recent examples in the NHL. I also know people who had to stop playing before they were 16 because of repeated concussions. Hockey is a very dangerous sport, with or without fighting.

 

The players want to keep fighitng in the game (see the NHLPA vote on the staged fighting rules), and that is enough for me. You could argue hockey as gotten more dangerous over the years because of increased speed, better protection, etc. but I don't think you can argue that the fights have gotten more dangerous. If the league is serious about lessening head injuries, they should look at shoulder and elbow pads first IMO.

 

To me, fighting has always been a part of North American hockey, and I hope it stays part of the game as long as the players are for it. I don't think the league needs players who are only employed to fight, but I do think fighting plays an important part of the game. There's a reason Giroux, Bogosian, and others spoke out in favor of fighting on TSN today.



#43 frankgrimes

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:50 PM

Nothing but inference. There is ZERO proof that having fighters prevents cheap shots.

I watch hockey because I love hockey. I've played the game my whole life. I don't really care about the fighting. If you love fighting so much, why don't you watch MMA?

 

Why should I? Fighting is part of hockey, just like hitting, goaltending, offense and defense it is part of the tradition of the game, it always was and always will be. I am not saying the anti fighting crowd should change their opinion, but if it's that big of a deal for people maybe hockey isn't the right sport for them.

 

I mean, I wouldn't watch soccer and complain about the lack of toughness or fighting there, because - unlike hockey - it's not part of the game there.

 

The thing is:

Players want fighting in the game, they love guys like Parros, Orr, Scott...look at how much bigger Montreal played yesterday because of the presence of Parros. MacTavish has been quoted saying what guys like MacIntyre can do for the whole locker room.

 

Think Cooke, Torres and Kaleta would still do their crap if the enforcers actually were allowed to go after them ? I don't.


Edited by frankgrimes, 02 October 2013 - 06:52 PM.

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#44 Playmaker

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:52 PM

 

Cherry has seen and probably played more hockey than 90 % of this planet he knows what he is talking about and I am glad there are people like him, who don't tolerate the watering down of this great game.

If I have to pick sides, I'll go with Yzerman and Bowman.



#45 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:14 PM

TSN's OTR with Michael Landsberg is always right on top of the latest topics. Today, he had a a spirited debate between two former players  all too familiar with the subject: Lyndon Byers and Jim Thompson. 

 


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#46 The Greek

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 08:02 PM

 
Why should I? Fighting is part of hockey, just like hitting, goaltending, offense and defense it is part of the tradition of the game, it always was and always will be. I am not saying the anti fighting crowd should change their opinion, but if it's that big of a deal for people maybe hockey isn't the right sport for them.
 
I mean, I wouldn't watch soccer and complain about the lack of toughness or fighting there, because - unlike hockey - it's not part of the game there.
 
The thing is:
Players want fighting in the game, they love guys like Parros, Orr, Scott...look at how much bigger Montreal played yesterday because of the presence of Parros. MacTavish has been quoted saying what guys like MacIntyre can do for the whole locker room.
 
Think Cooke, Torres and Kaleta would still do their crap if the enforcers actually were allowed to go after them ? I don't.


http://www.youtube.c...RRMQ?autoplay=1

Please watch the video. Most of those incidents occured during a time when enforcers were used regularly. It certainly did not stop these situations from happening. That's because violence begets violence.

As much as I hate Cooke, he has actually cleaned up his act quite a bit. Guess what, it was the league's sanctions that caused him to do it, not some enforcer punching his face in. If a hit is dirty, then it should be sanctioned by the league. If one of our star players are crushed with a clean hit there is no reason for an enforcer to fight him.

#47 evilmrt

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 08:29 PM

Steve? Seriously? 

 

Too much sun down in Florida, Stevie? 


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#48 Mckinley25

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:47 PM

I agree with Steve, lets use our brains to find ways to make the gameplay safer, not the players fists. Ive always hated when fighting happened, I cant think of any better way to describe it than stupid.

#49 John Marvin Murphy

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:51 PM

I don't normally log in and post, just read, but people, listen. Remember when Drapes got his face ran into the boards? You think McCarty WANTED to fight Lemieux before that? Nope. Fighting in hockey is the equalizer. You make a dirty play on the ice, you're going to have to answer the bell.

If you want to get rid of fighting, get rid of all the cheap dirty plays and the players who commit them. That's how you'll get rid of fighting,

Hockey is a sport where team mates look out for each other, that should never change, it's what makes hockey different from every other sport. You know when Lidstorm got ran into the boards, SOMEONE was going to come running to politely object.

No one fighting in hockey is out to injure another person. Evidence the other night in the Habs Leafs game. Parros was hurt, you could tell Colton wanted to immediately HELP his fellow hockey player, not punch him anymore.

Keep hockey hockey.

/rant

#50 The Greek

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:24 PM

Keep hockey hockey.

/rant


Again, hockey will still be hockey once fighting is inevitably banned.

I am puzzled by your logic. You propose the league gets rid of dangerous hits in order to reduce fights. Couldn't they just reduce both by sanctioning them in a logical and consistent manner?

Also, it doesn't matter if anyone is trying to hurt someone else In a fight, because it still happens. It even makes less sense if that's the case. You have guys subjecting themselves to brain trauma with no cathartic benefit or deterrent effect. It's for nothing but entertainment value at this point. You can see it with all the stupid, scripted fights that happen right after the puck drops.

#51 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:48 PM

So Stevie has now done a complete 180 from his playing days now that he has become management. How disgusting..
"Joey (Kocur) has no fear" -Lyndon Byers
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#52 frankgrimes

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:29 AM

TSN's OTR with Michael Landsberg is always right on top of the latest topics. Today, he had a a spirited debate between two former players  all too familiar with the subject: Lyndon Byers and Jim Thompson. 
 


Byers is my man I love his reference to soccer mums and dads. The guy is one of the toughest to ever lace them up so he should know and Byers *like most players* is fully aware of the danger. Stevo Y can not tellme that he was not happy, when guys like McCarty, Koccur or Downey had his back, otherwise the Lidstrom incident against the Avalanche would have happened a lot more often with way worse outcomes.

If the soccermums and dads of the world are deciding against hockey, because it is dangerious an violent so be it, these are also the type of parents who will scream bloody murder after a foul in soccer. Stuff like this sadly happens but banning the on ice policy and watering down the game even more is just pure nuts. It is too funnz that a guy lke Rutherford has also joined the discussion, maybe he just wants a rat like Ruutu being free to do his stuff. I am also not surprised that Shero is in favor of banning fighting, because the Penguins would never sign an enforcer right...oh the irony

The players have already spoken they feel safer with an enforcer in the lineup, the enforcers are well aware of the danger so I really don>t think this debate will amount to anything, thankfully.

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#53 Nev

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:40 AM

I'm puzzled by people mentioning the Draper/Lemiuex and Lidstrom/Laperrierre hits.  On both occasions we had fighters on the team., on both occasions they did nothing to prevent the hit occuring.  No point circle jerking over Downey dropping the gloves when Lidstrom is already out injured.  Clearly Downey failed as an enforcer.

 

Lemiuex was a dirty SOB his entire career and enforcers did nothing to stop his cheap-shotting.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#54 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:34 AM


Cooke and Torres have a long history of cheapshotting players.  All while  fighting is still a part of the game.  It's apparently not an effective enough deterrent for either one of them to stop cheapshotting.  What finally got to Cooke's attention was a 17 game suspension from the league.  The league's suspensions clearly haven't gotten Torres' attention yet, but neither has any enforcer.

 

I agree. Lost income is much better deterrent against cheap shots than fighting. That black eye will go away soon enough but losing nearly quarter of your annual paycheck got to hurt.



#55 frankgrimes

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:37 AM

I'm puzzled by people mentioning the Draper/Lemiuex and Lidstrom/Laperrierre hits.  On both occasions we had fighters on the team., on both occasions they did nothing to prevent the hit occuring.  No point circle jerking over Downey dropping the gloves when Lidstrom is already out injured.  Clearly Downey failed as an enforcer.
 
Lemiuex was a dirty SOB his entire career and enforcers did nothing to stop his cheap-shotting.


Not true at all, it was a bounding moment for the whole team. Downeys job was to take care off business after the incident and he did a damn got job, that is wy enforcers are needed. Rats should have to answer for their crap ON THE ice if suspensions are coming on top of that fine.

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#56 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:53 AM

Not true at all, it was a bounding moment for the whole team. Downeys job was to take care off business after the incident and he did a damn got job, that is wy enforcers are needed. Rats should have to answer for their crap ON THE ice if suspensions are coming on top of that fine.

 

I really would not care all that much if a guy who just put Dats or Z out of commission for few week had to fight after the fact. A player I love to watch play hockey would be gone for a while and instead I got to see a fight between couple of guys who probably should not even be in the league anyway. Does not sound like a good deal at all.



#57 F.Michael

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 06:26 AM

What concerns me most about a ban on fighting in the NHL is - what  might take place if fighting is indeed "eliminated"...

 

I take it that most here are pretty media savy - as in most probably saw the pic of Sam Gagne.....

 

1297470737744_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80&si

 

 

Most of us have watched hockey for quite a few years; I'm up there with Harold (30 plus years)...Can't tell ya how many scaps I've seen in my lifetime, and how many 5 on 5 tussles where everyone on the ice is tied up with someone else...Now...What if fighting were removed/banned, and tempers on the ice flared up?

 

Anyone seeing where I'm going with this?

 

The above broken jaw suffered by Sam Gagne was an 'accidental high stick'.....Just think of what might happen if there was a purposeful swing of a stick at an opponents head?.....Now just think of the nightmare if there were several plus individuals on the ice partaking in a 'stick swinging competition'?

 

IMHO - fighting is the lesser of the evils...If fighting needs to be banned - let the NHLPA do it.



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#58 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:13 AM

It's a good thing that Parros lost his balance as it makes this topic discussable.


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#59 F.Michael

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:07 AM

It's a good thing that Parros lost his balance as it makes this topic discussable.

 

 

AND that concussions occur OUTSIDE of fighting...

 

Heck - they even take place in high school sports, and in everyday life...

 

Oh - btw - technically speaking - it was Orr who lost his balance - thus pulling Parros over, and striking his head onto the ice...



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#60 TheRealPedro

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:37 AM

 

When was the last time you saw a sanctioned bare knuckle boxing match?

Er, as minor point here, boxing gloves and MMA gloves don't reduce brain trauma or damage to the head.  In fact, they likely increase it.  Gloves protect a fighter's hands, and let them punch much, much harder.  I've never understood why hockey players drop their gloves to fight, other than that they may simply be too unwieldy to be useful in a fight.







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