Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Steve Yzerman wants Game Misconduct penalties for fighting


  • Please log in to reply
165 replies to this topic

#121 frankgrimes

frankgrimes

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,917 posts

Posted 06 October 2013 - 06:00 PM

Who cares what other leagues are doing? This is hockey, it's a better game, a game where tradition actually is held high and where codes have to be respected. Hockey without fighting, would be like a car without an engine it doesn't work and weasels like Cooke will have a field day with all the skilled guys and undersized players, if that's better ... Yzerman should really care about improving his goaltending and defense, their offense has been great for a long time but in the end, their D has still long ways to go. Also it's not the fault of other team, that some teams simple refuse to sign tough guys or create energy lines, that's stubborness and blaming the guys who get it is really lame. MacIntyre, Orr and even Scott were on waivers Stevo Y didn't take them so he only has himself to blame and not other teams who are signing these guys for a reason. Rutherford has Westgarth on his roster, one of the better heavyweights in the game and also more than enough problems on his own team, fighting should be the least of his worries. The TSN panel also had a lenghty discussion on that and as usual the media is playing the NHLs puppet, lobbying for less fighting. It is so funny how often the fact, that players want guys that can protect them and other team mates is going to get overlooked. Rosehill knee'd Frazer (injured) Orr didn't like it and went after Rosehill, the rest of the game Rosehill played less but when he played he toned it down. The so called Smurfs from last season (Canadiens) won more fights than one of the toughest teams in the NHL, that's what great locker room guys like Parros can do for a teams confidence but yet the media is trying to lobby for an even more watered down game. Hockey is tough, violent and sometimes hard to watch if people can't or aren't willing to deal with that I am sure the soccer-mums and soccer-dads of the world can find some swimming or dancing schools for their kids...soccer on ice =/= hockey!

Edited by frankgrimes, 06 October 2013 - 06:02 PM.

kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..


#122 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,566 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:13 PM

 

 
Oh, it was the drugs and the booze that made him depressed, that's OK then *facepalm*
 
So the next obvious question is - why was he on the drugs and the booze?  In fact why do so many enforcers have problems with drugs and alcohol?  Why is drug addiction and alcoholism so much more prevalent amongst them than regular NHL players?


Why is anyone addicted to drugs, and or alcohol?


Yes - I do acknowledge there's a fair amount of substance abuse with many of those who make fighting a part of their livelihood as NHL'ers, but just how many players who aren't fighters are also abusing drugs/alcohol?...How many other atheletes in MLB/NBA/NFL use, and abuse drugs/alcohol?...How many 'ordinary Joe's' such as ourselves use, and abuse drugs/alcohol (especially if you worked at Walmart - yikes!)?

From my earliest memories - alcohol in particular is part of the 'hockey culture' here in N.America...A friend from school years ago was telling me about his evening in the Milwaukee Admirals locker room after a game (his father was one of the team doctors)...Apparently the trainers would have a chilled 6-pack at each player's stall, and if they chewed/smoked - there would be also a pack of cigs, or chewing tobacco awaiting them as well (mind you this was the late 1970's to early 1980's)...While playing adult rec league hockey I was always more than willing to have a few 'barley pops' after each game/practice/pick up session, and everyone who would stick around for the beers would take his turn in taking the cooler home with him, and bring it back full of beer for the next time around...Again - hockey culture at it's finest.

Guess what I'm getting at is that addiction can result from many outside sources/reasons.

Edited by F.Michael, 06 October 2013 - 08:14 PM.


'Evolution' created by Offsides

#123 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,566 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:21 PM

 

 
FIghting has never been part of hockey. Fighting happens in hockey (and will continue too long after its banned) but its not part of the game.
 
The OHL has already started working towards punishing fights with game misconducts and the rest of the CHL won't be far behind. 
 
The substance abuse in most of the NHL's suicides has been prescription pain killers taken due to the strain on the body fighting every night causes. 
 
I took this from another board but basketball went through the same phase in the 70's.
 
 
The league will absolutely work to reduce fighting to the absolute minimum levels and the game will be better because of it.

Was physical contact ever part of basketball like we see in hockey?

I've played both sports; I do not recall basketball being played in such a manner, but hockey of course is a different story (in terms of physical play).

Again - what Paul Maurice said about the KHL should make some question if removing fighting will in fact make the NHL a better, or safer league.

Edited by F.Michael, 06 October 2013 - 08:48 PM.


'Evolution' created by Offsides

#124 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,695 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 06 October 2013 - 11:42 PM

Seems to me like the big argument for fighting is that it stops the dirty players from being dirty and taking "runs" at your guys.  For the moment I'm willing to overlook the fact that fighting has been around forever, and so have dirty players, and as of yet the former has yet to deter the latter.  My biggest concern here is rather that the majority of fights don't have anything to do with dirty plays.  If you exclude opening faceoff (Tootoo) fights, and fights that occur because of LEGAL (yet still hard) hits, and fights between enforcers who aren't involved in any dirty play (Orr vs. Parros), and fights that break out because other fights are going on (Miller vs. Bernier), or enforcer rematches, then you're left with very few fights where guys are policing dirty play.

 

As Red Wings fans, we don't see a lot of fights.  We also all remember Lemieux on Draper, or Weber on Zetterberg, and those things leave a bad taste in our mouths.  So it's just natural to assume that things like this are the primary cause of fights.  But the sad fact is that most fights have nothing to do with policing the game.  There's nothing that noble going on most of the time. 

 

Fights happen because they always have, and for the time being they are still looked upon favorably by too many sad, old, apes who can't stop romanticizing the past.


Edited by kipwinger, 06 October 2013 - 11:43 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#125 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,566 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:36 AM

 

 

Fights happen because they always have, and for the time being they are still looked upon favorably by too many sad, old, apes who can't stop romanticizing the past.

I prefer to be called a 'knuckle dragger' - thank you very much!



'Evolution' created by Offsides

#126 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,695 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:42 AM

I prefer to be called a 'knuckle dragger' - thank you very much!

 

Haha, I think I got it right the first time.  Knuckle draggers are the guys you're advocating keeping on hockey teams. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#127 frankgrimes

frankgrimes

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,917 posts

Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:52 AM


I prefer to be called a 'knuckle dragger' - thank you very much!


 
Haha, I think I got it right the first time.  Knuckle draggers are the guys you're advocating keeping on hockey teams. 


Sorry for wanting the young guys and star players to be safe and comfortable outthere. I'd rather be a knuckle dragger, past romanizer than someone who is okay, with watering down the game even more so it becomes soccer or dancing on ice someday.

kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..


#128 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,695 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:03 AM

Sorry for wanting the young guys and star players to be safe and comfortable outthere. I'd rather be a knuckle dragger, past romanizer than someone who is okay, with watering down the game even more so it becomes soccer or dancing on ice someday.

 

Haha, nice try.  Tell me again about how you'd rather be a past "romanizer".


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#129 Mckinley25

Mckinley25

    4th Line Grinder

  • Bronze Booster
  • 277 posts

Posted 07 October 2013 - 05:20 AM

I think there' s an awful lot of hyperbole necessary to claim fightless hockey would be dancing on ice.

#130 The Greek

The Greek

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 399 posts
  • Location:L-Town

Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:41 AM

Sorry for wanting the young guys and star players to be safe and comfortable outthere. I'd rather be a knuckle dragger, past romanizer than someone who is okay, with watering down the game even more so it becomes soccer or dancing on ice someday.


Do you really not see the inconsistency in your logic? You flip flop back and forth between saying that reducing fights would make hockey more dangerous and that it dilute hockey to the point that it is dancing on ice. Your position is so untenable you need to do these mental backflips in order to justify it in your mind. When someone says that removing or reducing fighting would make the game safer you respond that it waters the game down. When it's argued that the integrity of the game will be preserved even without fighting you just come back and say it would be dangerous. The problem is, your scenarios are incompatible. What the "anti-fighting crowd" (soccer moms as you also call them) wants is to reduce unnecessary injuries while preserving the other, necessary physical aspects that are actually part of the game.

Edited by The Greek, 07 October 2013 - 09:45 AM.


#131 Electrophile

Electrophile

    Ipsa scientia potestas est.

  • Silver Booster
  • 9,390 posts
  • Location:North Carolina

Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:03 PM

It is just a matter of time before Bettman and company has ruined the game of hockey completely. They will not stop until hockey looks like figureskating.

 

Oh, knock it off with the useless hyperbole, would you?  If fighting ever disappeared from the game entirely, hockey would not look like figure skating, not even close.  The only thing the two activities have in common is they take place on skates.  That's it.


electrophilewingsfloyd.jpg

"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff."  -- The Doctor


#132 Echolalia

Echolalia

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,915 posts
  • Location:fab ferndale

Posted 07 October 2013 - 03:39 PM

 

Oh, knock it off with the useless hyperbole, would you?  If fighting ever disappeared from the game entirely, hockey would not look like figure skating, not even close.  The only thing the two activities have in common is they take place on skates.  That's it.

 

Fighting has been practically extinct from the Wings' game for years.  I wonder how many people on these forums find watching them similar to figure skating.



#133 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,695 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:45 PM

 

Fighting has been practically extinct from the Wings' game for years.  I wonder how many people on these forums find watching them similar to figure skating.

 

Haha, what are you talking about?  The Wings team has been populated by such monumental bad*sses as Brad May, Dallas Drake, and Aaron Downey.  And as you well know, those men are collectively responsible for keeping Dats, Z, and Lidstrom safe during those years.  Nowadays, Tootoo, Ericsson, and Bertuzzi can't hold and candle to those great gladiators of the past. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#134 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,566 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:54 AM

 

Fighting has been practically extinct from the Wings' game for years.  I wonder how many people on these forums find watching them similar to figure skating.

Ok...The brutally honest neanderthal inside me has gotta reply...

 

Wings vs Blue Jackets - OR - Habs vs Bruins...Guess what I'll watch?

 

Wings vs Yotes - OR - Flyers vs Bruins...Take a guess?

 

Wings vs Panthers - OR - Leafs vs Habs...Seeing what I'm getting at?

 

I love me some physical tough hockey, and if things get heated, and a few scraps between willing combatants breaks out - even better!

 

Again - it's why I'll take our 97/98 Cup teams anyday over our 08 team...Maybe we'll see some of the intensity renewed now that we're with our old rivals from the east.



'Evolution' created by Offsides

#135 Echolalia

Echolalia

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,915 posts
  • Location:fab ferndale

Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:20 AM

Ok...The brutally honest neanderthal inside me has gotta reply...

 

Wings vs Blue Jackets - OR - Habs vs Bruins...Guess what I'll watch?

 

Wings vs Yotes - OR - Flyers vs Bruins...Take a guess?

 

Wings vs Panthers - OR - Leafs vs Habs...Seeing what I'm getting at?

 

I love me some physical tough hockey, and if things get heated, and a few scraps between willing combatants breaks out - even better!

 

Again - it's why I'll take our 97/98 Cup teams anyday over our 08 team...Maybe we'll see some of the intensity renewed now that we're with our old rivals from the east.

 

Honestly I agree.  Physical hockey is exciting to watch, and even though I support the game-misconduct for a fight, I get a bit more excited when I see a fight happen (although if its a pointless fight right off the face-off with no real hatred as the cause of the fight, I do roll my eyes a bit).  But I also think that there is a lot of other exciting stuff in hockey without the fights occurring, and that was the essence of my previous post.  Datsyuk's puck mastery, team puck movement, solid body-checks, power-play and penalty kill tactics, acrobatic goaltending, etc etc etc are all reasons why I'm a fan of the game, and taking steps to reduce the frequency of fighting will not affect any of these things.  On the contrary, I think it will enhance the above, because the goons with no purpose but to fight will be eliminated from the game, and more time will be spent playing hockey instead of kicking up dirt.  I also think the truly passionate fights will still be in the game, because if your blood is that boiled, you're not thinking about a game-misconduct or any sort of consequence of your action.  I believe the brawls with the Avs would still have occurred with a game misconduct penalty.  Those teams absolutely hated each other.


Edited by Echolalia, 08 October 2013 - 10:21 AM.


#136 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,566 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:36 AM

 

Honestly I agree.  Physical hockey is exciting to watch, and even though I support the game-misconduct for a fight, I get a bit more excited when I see a fight happen (although if its a pointless fight right off the face-off with no real hatred as the cause of the fight, I do roll my eyes a bit).  But I also think that there is a lot of other exciting stuff in hockey without the fights occurring, and that was the essence of my previous post.  Datsyuk's puck mastery, team puck movement, solid body-checks, power-play and penalty kill tactics, acrobatic goaltending, etc etc etc are all reasons why I'm a fan of the game, and taking steps to reduce the frequency of fighting will not affect any of these things.  On the contrary, I think it will enhance the above, because the goons with no purpose but to fight will be eliminated from the game, and more time will be spent playing hockey instead of kicking up dirt.  I also think the truly passionate fights will still be in the game, because if your blood is that boiled, you're not thinking about a game-misconduct or any sort of consequence of your action.  I believe the brawls with the Avs would still have occurred with a game misconduct penalty.  Those teams absolutely hated each other.

"Staged" face-off fights that I recall from years ago...

 

Probert/Domi - classic - never knew a bowling ball could take so many punches.

 

Probert/Clark - another smaller player with a ton of heart in 'Wendy' :lol:

 

There has been hundreds of others, and many of those staged fights to me are rather  'umm - ok', and truth be told - the staged fights these past few years are really something I can live without...

 

The heat of the battle type of scraps between heated opponents (or old rivalries)  is what I enjoy.



'Evolution' created by Offsides

#137 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,695 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:17 AM

Ok...The brutally honest neanderthal inside me has gotta reply...

 

Wings vs Blue Jackets - OR - Habs vs Bruins...Guess what I'll watch?

 

Wings vs Yotes - OR - Flyers vs Bruins...Take a guess?

 

Wings vs Panthers - OR - Leafs vs Habs...Seeing what I'm getting at?

 

I love me some physical tough hockey, and if things get heated, and a few scraps between willing combatants breaks out - even better!

 

Again - it's why I'll take our 97/98 Cup teams anyday over our 08 team...Maybe we'll see some of the intensity renewed now that we're with our old rivals from the east.

 

I guess this is where we differ.  You'd apparently rather watch two teams, neither of whom you're a fan of, just because they're more likely to punch each other.  I'd rather watch the Red Wings win.  I'd rather watch Datsyuk dangle, Kronwall hit, and Jimmy stand on his head.  I'd rather see the game where our powerplay finally comes alive, or Alfie get his first goal as a Wing, or a four goal night from Mule, or Mrazek come off the bench because of a (non-serious) injury to Jimmy and play out of this world. 

 

There's no need to invent drama in sports, there's always something there.  Even against the Panthers.  I always thought that's what makes a diehard fan.  When you don't miss a game, regardless of the opponent.  When you don't leave early, even during a loss.  When you always find something to be excited about.  When you'd rather watch the Detroit Red Wings play the Phoenix Coyotes than the Bruins and the Habs, not because it'll be the best game ever, but because they're the Detroit F*cking Red Wings and they're the best team ever.  And for games like against Carolina.  A nobody. 

 

But apparently, when you're being honest, you'd rather see one guy punch another guy.


Edited by kipwinger, 08 October 2013 - 11:27 AM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#138 Richdg

Richdg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts

Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:04 PM

Sorry Stevie but I disagree. fact is you spent a good portion of your career-nearly all being protected by guys like Probert, Kocur, McCarty, Shanny, etc....... You had 1 career fight, lost badly, and were smart enough to never do it again, which counters your argument. no one has to fight. But most star players are glad there are guys that do.

Some of us remember that wonderful evening back in 1997 when the RW finally became a champion. No it wasn't a 5 goal night from federov or stevie, it wasn't the night we finally lifted the cup over our heads, it was a couple of months earlier than that, at the Joe vs the Avs in March. Every RW fan under 30 knows that night. But most can't tell you who won the game, or what the final score was. But everyone remembers the night of the turtle. Everyone remembers Mccarty redeeming his best friends honor. Everyone remembers Shanny clocking Roy, and then letting Vernon pummel Roy. BTW the final score was 6-5 RW's, with McCarty scoring the game winner-something he wouldn't be allowed to do if Stevie had his way. Same guy scored the Cup winning goal a few months later.



#139 Opie

Opie

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,419 posts
  • Location:The only Henniker on Earth!

Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:10 PM

When Yzerman was being protected by these players did he know then what he knows now?

 

Maybe the new revelations about concussions in sport have changed his mind.

 

Maybe now that he is a dad his mind has changed.

 

None of you changed your mind after thinking one way for 20+ years, then discovered/learned something you previously were unaware of?

 

Do you think maybe the research and studies down on CTE and concussions have changed his mind?

 

For instance players used to smoke butts in the locker room before and after periods, should they still be doing it?

 

No because they realized the impact it has on their breathing and abilities, so players for the most part stopped smoking, and all of them (due to laws) no longer smoke in the locker room.

 

Also can we stop using the Blood feud as evidence we need to keep fighting, when was the last time a rivalry was that strong and had that much bad blood.

 

No fight in the past 15 years has as much reason to be had as those fights.

IF every fight in the NHL was in the same vein as the ones between the Wings and Avs, I for one would have no issue with them.

But most of the fights are over clean hits, scrums at the net, or because a couple of goons are on the ice.

 

Even when Matt Cooke ended Marc Savard's career, how many of the big bad bruins kicked his arse?


Edited by Opie, 08 October 2013 - 12:16 PM.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#140 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,695 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:13 PM

Sorry Stevie but I disagree. fact is you spent a good portion of your career-nearly all being protected by guys like Probert, Kocur, McCarty, Shanny, etc....... You had 1 career fight, lost badly, and were smart enough to never do it again, which counters your argument. no one has to fight. But most star players are glad there are guys that do.

Some of us remember that wonderful evening back in 1997 when the RW finally became a champion. No it wasn't a 5 goal night from federov or stevie, it wasn't the night we finally lifted the cup over our heads, it was a couple of months earlier than that, at the Joe vs the Avs in March. Every RW fan under 30 knows that night. But most can't tell you who won the game, or what the final score was. But everyone remembers the night of the turtle. Everyone remembers Mccarty redeeming his best friends honor. Everyone remembers Shanny clocking Roy, and then letting Vernon pummel Roy. BTW the final score was 6-5 RW's, with McCarty scoring the game winner-something he wouldn't be allowed to do if Stevie had his way. Same guy scored the Cup winning goal a few months later.

 

If nobody were allowed to change their minds I'd still think Sesame Street was the greatest show in the world, and I'd still want to be a transformer when I grew up. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 






Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users