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Steve Yzerman wants Game Misconduct penalties for fighting


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#141 Richdg

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:25 PM

BTW someone brought up bare knuckle boxing. fact: bare knuckle boxing is much safer for the brain than boxing with gloves. You can hit much harder with gloves on than without. BK boxing was very bloody-turned off fans. It was also much slower because the number 1 injury was broken hands. Without gloves there were cuts and blood. Now there is concussions. same is true in rugby vs football. rugby has 1/10th the number of concussions that football has. Without head protection, players stop using their heads as weapons. if the goal in all of this is to make the games safer, call/enforce the rules: charging and boarding in hockey and spearing in football. helmets do not prevent concussions, nor are those designed to. those are designed to prevent skull fractures. Concussions are caused by the brain moving inside of the skull and crashing into the skull wall. There is no piece of equipment that can be made that will prevent that from happening.



#142 Dabura

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 02:05 PM

This just in: Steve Yzerman receives several game misconduct penalties for fighting against fighting.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#143 frankgrimes

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

Stevie Y can still not sign enforcers and build a soft boring to watch team, so can Rutherford and the other soccer on ice supporting coaches GMs but who the heck they think they are in order to decide how others should be building their teams? I hate to admit it but the Leafs with guys like Orr Mclaren and Frazer are a damn exciting team to watch, even if they lose. Someone already mentioned it, I'd rather watch Leafs versus Habs compared to Detroitredwings against some boring to watch team such as the Rutherford built Hurricanes. When this team was the class of the NHL guys like Koccur, Downie and McCarty also were part of the great hype about this team and now? Skill is diminishing, hits are barely seen and young players have to go through hell in order to get the jobs from long over the hill veterans and yet the anti fighting crowd is still questioning why the interest of fans is going down and the Joe isn't as packed as it used to be? A guy like Downie would have smashed Weber's ugly face through the glass after the Zetterberg incident instead of just getting fined 2,5...

Edited by frankgrimes, 08 October 2013 - 02:25 PM.

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#144 kipwinger

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:08 PM

Stevie Y can still not sign enforcers and build a soft boring to watch team, so can Rutherford and the other soccer on ice supporting coaches GMs but who the heck they think they are in order to decide how others should be building their teams? I hate to admit it but the Leafs with guys like Orr Mclaren and Frazer are a damn exciting team to watch, even if they lose. Someone already mentioned it, I'd rather watch Leafs versus Habs compared to Detroitredwings against some boring to watch team such as the Rutherford built Hurricanes. When this team was the class of the NHL guys like Koccur, Downie and McCarty also were part of the great hype about this team and now? Skill is diminishing, hits are barely seen and young players have to go through hell in order to get the jobs from long over the hill veterans and yet the anti fighting crowd is still questioning why the interest of fans is going down and the Joe isn't as packed as it used to be? A guy like Downie would have smashed Weber's ugly face through the glass after the Zetterberg incident instead of just getting fined 2,5...

 

Haha, cute.  Except none of the "anti-fighting" crowd is questioning anything like this, mostly because it's not true.  It's just another thing you've completely made up to legitimize your personal preference.  Here in the real world, dominated by facts, league revenue and television viewership is still steadily increasing, despite the diminishing number of fights. 

 

Edit:  Also, Detroit was third in the league in attendance last season.  We actually had higher average attendance last year than we did during the 97-98 Cup season.  So it really is just as full as it ever was.  Here's proof...

http://www.hockeyatt...2/?sort=avg_att

 

Maybe don't make stuff up if you want to have intelligent discussions here on the discussion forum.  Just a thought.


Edited by kipwinger, 08 October 2013 - 04:33 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#145 F.Michael

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 05:34 PM

 

I guess this is where we differ.  You'd apparently rather watch two teams, neither of whom you're a fan of, just because they're more likely to punch each other.  I'd rather watch the Red Wings win.  I'd rather watch Datsyuk dangle, Kronwall hit, and Jimmy stand on his head.  I'd rather see the game where our powerplay finally comes alive, or Alfie get his first goal as a Wing, or a four goal night from Mule, or Mrazek come off the bench because of a (non-serious) injury to Jimmy and play out of this world. 

 

There's no need to invent drama in sports, there's always something there.  Even against the Panthers.  I always thought that's what makes a diehard fan.  When you don't miss a game, regardless of the opponent.  When you don't leave early, even during a loss.  When you always find something to be excited about.  When you'd rather watch the Detroit Red Wings play the Phoenix Coyotes than the Bruins and the Habs, not because it'll be the best game ever, but because they're the Detroit F*cking Red Wings and they're the best team ever.  And for games like against Carolina.  A nobody. 

 

But apparently, when you're being honest, you'd rather see one guy punch another guy.

Been a die-hard Detroit Red Wings fan since 1984.

 

I've always enjoyed physical/tough hockey.

 

Just because I choose to watch a different game a few times a year when the Wings are on at the same time doesn't take away the fact that the Wings have been, and always be my #1 team.

 

Once again boys, and girls...Physical/tough hockey against a long time rival is much more fun to watch than hockey with little to no contact, and against an opponent that has little to no history of competing against one another.

 

Am I one of the few here that yearn for a Red Wings vs "opponent's name here" rivalry that harkens back to what we had against the Avs?


 

Haha, cute.  Except none of the "anti-fighting" crowd is questioning anything like this, mostly because it's not true.  It's just another thing you've completely made up to legitimize your personal preference.  Here in the real world, dominated by facts, league revenue and television viewership is still steadily increasing, despite the diminishing number of fights. 

 

Edit:  Also, Detroit was third in the league in attendance last season.  We actually had higher average attendance last year than we did during the 97-98 Cup season.  So it really is just as full as it ever was.  Here's proof...

http://www.hockeyatt...2/?sort=avg_att

 

Maybe don't make stuff up if you want to have intelligent discussions here on the discussion forum.  Just a thought.

Can't find the attendance numbers from the 97/98 Cup seasons on the link you provided...

 

You making stuff up ;)



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#146 F.Michael

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 05:40 PM

 

 

 

 

None of you changed your mind after thinking one way for 20+ years, then discovered/learned something you previously were unaware of?

 

 

 

 

When I was about 5 years old - I snuck a sip from my mom's scotch & soda on a Easter Sunday...Had to immediately down a few Peeps, and I don't even like Peeps.

 

Man - you should see my single malt collection I have today...Whodah thought?



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#147 kipwinger

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:00 PM

Been a die-hard Detroit Red Wings fan since 1984.

 

I've always enjoyed physical/tough hockey.

 

Just because I choose to watch a different game a few times a year when the Wings are on at the same time doesn't take away the fact that the Wings have been, and always be my #1 team.

 

Once again boys, and girls...Physical/tough hockey against a long time rival is much more fun to watch than hockey with little to no contact, and against an opponent that has little to no history of competing against one another.

 

Am I one of the few here that yearn for a Red Wings vs "opponent's name here" rivalry that harkens back to what we had against the Avs?


Can't find the attendance numbers from the 97/98 Cup seasons on the link you provided...

 

You making stuff up ;)

 

http://espn.go.com/n...nce/_/year/2013

 

This link will give you the attendance for any year you want, including the two I mentioned.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#148 F.Michael

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:14 PM

 

http://espn.go.com/n...nce/_/year/2013

 

This link will give you the attendance for any year you want, including the two I mentioned.

It only goes down to 2000/2001...Your credibility is venturing onto thin ice...

 

EDIT - for what it's worth - I recall the Joe adding seats (kinda inflates your claim)...JLA capacity from Wikipedia...http://en.wikipedia....Joe_Louis_Arena

 

ce hockey:
19,275 (1979–1996)
19,983 (1996–2000)
19,995 (2000–2001)
20,058 (2001–2003)
20,066 (2003–present)
Basketball: 20,153
Professional wrestling: 18,735
Concerts: 21,666[4]


Edited by F.Michael, 08 October 2013 - 06:30 PM.


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#149 kipwinger

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:16 PM

It only goes down to 2000/2001...Your credibility is venturing onto thin ice...

 

EDIT - for what it's worth - I recall the Joe adding seats (kinda inflates your claim)...JLA capacity from Wikipedia...http://en.wikipedia....Joe_Louis_Arena

 

ce hockey:
19,275 (1979–1996)
19,983 (1996–2000)
19,995 (2000–2001)
20,058 (2001–2003)
20,066 (2003–present)
Basketball: 20,153
Professional wrestling: 18,735
Concerts: 21,666[4]

 

http://espn.go.com/n...nce/_/year/1998

 

Ok, this is it...finally.  I'm watching this Tigers game and hardly paying attention to anything else.  It's an amazing freaking game!


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#150 Richdg

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:58 PM

It might take me a day or 2 to find this, but there was a 10 year long study in the minors from 95 through 2005 about what effects attendance more: fighting or winning. by a sizeable margin fighting had a bigger impact. teams that increased their fighting majors had a larger % of increase in attendance than teams that increased their winning %.



#151 Richdg

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:13 PM

It might take me a day or 2 to find this, but there was a 10 year long study in the minors from 95 through 2005 about what effects attendance more: fighting or winning. by a sizeable margin fighting had a bigger impact. teams that increased their fighting majors had a larger % of increase in attendance than teams that increased their winning %.

here is the study:

 

Paul, R. J., Weinbach, A. P., & Robbins, D. (2013). American hockey league attendance: A study of fan preferences for fighting, team performance, and promotions. International Journal of Sport Finance, 8(1), 21-38. Retrieved from http://search.proque...accountid=39473



#152 frankgrimes

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:21 PM

Holland himself said the Joe isnsold out in most nights not every night anymore.

Edited by frankgrimes, 08 October 2013 - 08:24 PM.

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#153 F.Michael

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:03 PM

Holland himself said the Joe isnsold out in most nights not every night anymore.

It's been that way for some time...I recall going to a game 4, or 5 seasons ago...Got seats from StubHub; paid $65 each, and we were 9 rows up from the ice...Many empty seats that night, but it was on a Tuesday.



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#154 kipwinger

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:19 PM

here is the study:

 

Paul, R. J., Weinbach, A. P., & Robbins, D. (2013). American hockey league attendance: A study of fan preferences for fighting, team performance, and promotions. International Journal of Sport Finance, 8(1), 21-38. Retrieved from http://search.proque...accountid=39473

 

Ok, I'll read that when I've got a minute.  But just for the record, based on the links I've provided do we at least now agree that more people attended Wings games (on average) last year than in 97-98 when they had their tough guy enforcers?


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#155 F.Michael

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:43 PM

 

Ok, I'll read that when I've got a minute.  But just for the record, based on the links I've provided do we at least now agree that more people attended Wings games (on average) last year than in 97-98 when they had their tough guy enforcers?

That's because the Joe  has a larger capacity today than what it did back in the late 90's.

 

19,983 (1996–2000) vs 20,066 (2003–present)


Edited by F.Michael, 08 October 2013 - 11:45 PM.


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#156 kipwinger

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:24 AM

That's because the Joe  has a larger capacity today than what it did back in the late 90's.

 

19,983 (1996–2000) vs 20,066 (2003–present)

 

But you'd agree that based on the numbers, Frank's assertion that "the Joe isn't as packed as it used to be" is probably not accurate, or even remotely true?  Which was the whole point I was making to begin with. 

 

Edit:  I'd also like to make sure you and I both understanding that yielding this point does not mean that somehow one or the other of us is right about the place of fighting in hockey, but simply that one of us is right when discussing the overall popularity of the NHL, and the Red Wings in general.  Conceding that point simply means you see the evidence and believe it, not that you've somehow changed your tune with regard to fighting.


Edited by kipwinger, 09 October 2013 - 03:27 AM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#157 F.Michael

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:07 AM

 

But you'd agree that based on the numbers, Frank's assertion that "the Joe isn't as packed as it used to be" is probably not accurate, or even remotely true?  Which was the whole point I was making to begin with. 

 

Edit:  I'd also like to make sure you and I both understanding that yielding this point does not mean that somehow one or the other of us is right about the place of fighting in hockey, but simply that one of us is right when discussing the overall popularity of the NHL, and the Red Wings in general.  Conceding that point simply means you see the evidence and believe it, not that you've somehow changed your tune with regard to fighting.

The Detroit Red Wings in recent times have had a solid fan base since Stevie Y was a young man.

 

Even though I personally feel a large % of the Wings fan base enjoys a few scraps here, and there (more than what we're seeing now) - the lack of fights apparently has had little to no effect on their overall popularity.

 

I think having a successful team, multiple Cups, a wonderful owner, smart head office/coaching staff, and a good group of very likeable young men (read no douchebags) who are the heart, and soul of the team bring about the popularity...An exact opposite of the Wings would be the NY Islanders; yeah they've had some tough teams these past 10 years, but haven't done squat.

 

I enjoy the rougher aspects of NHL hockey as do many other Detroit Red Wing fans; just because we don't have a duplicate of our 97/98 Cup teams doesn't mean I'm less of a fan - just that I have an itch that I'd like scratched.



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#158 Richdg

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:46 AM

There are several things being discussed here.

1. Stevie wants tougher penalties for fighting. never happen.

2. The RW were a much tougher team from 97-2005 than they are now.

3. In general more fans attend games for tough teams, at all levels.

4. RW attendance is hard to track over the last 10 years. The state of Michigan went into a recession in 2002 and has yet to come out of it. Detroit is broke and broken. Hockey tickets are very expensive. heck even in GR were we weathered the economic storms fairly well, the griffins have trouble filling the place, and they won the CC last year. The only time they sell out is on Fridays fro $ beer/dog night. yes watching the griffs play hockey is boring as hell. Muskegon has always been a better place to watch a game.



#159 Electrophile

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:42 PM

Stevie Y can still not sign enforcers and build a soft boring to watch team, so can Rutherford and the other soccer on ice supporting coaches GMs but who the heck they think they are in order to decide how others should be building their teams? I hate to admit it but the Leafs with guys like Orr Mclaren and Frazer are a damn exciting team to watch, even if they lose. Someone already mentioned it, I'd rather watch Leafs versus Habs compared to Detroitredwings against some boring to watch team such as the Rutherford built Hurricanes. When this team was the class of the NHL guys like Koccur, Downie and McCarty also were part of the great hype about this team and now? Skill is diminishing, hits are barely seen and young players have to go through hell in order to get the jobs from long over the hill veterans and yet the anti fighting crowd is still questioning why the interest of fans is going down and the Joe isn't as packed as it used to be? A guy like Downie would have smashed Weber's ugly face through the glass after the Zetterberg incident instead of just getting fined 2,5...

 

 

How about because Detroit financially is in dire straits, and fans don't have the money to spend on tickets, parking, and food.  Did that ever cross your mind?  The fact Joe Louis isn't packed to the rafters has little to do with the "anti-fighting" crowd, or because we don't have a bunch of players on the ice whose sole purpose is braining other players. 

 

This isn't an us vs. them argument. 


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#160 frankgrimes

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 07:26 AM


How about because Detroit financially is in dire straits, and fans don't have the money to spend on tickets, parking, and food. Did that ever cross your mind? The fact Joe Louis isn't packed to the rafters has little to do with the "anti-fighting" crowd, or because we don't have a bunch of players on the ice whose sole purpose is braining other players.

This isn't an us vs. them argument.


That's an argument I agree with but why are ticket prices, food and parking rising? Because this organization has to pay 20 million alongside with other 9 clubs annually to keep some failed franchises alive and helping them to sign their stud players, although the DetroitRedWings coud need them! These owners are all smart business men so for sure their expenses are just floating into the ticket pricing, without revenue sharing prices would go down.


I think overall it's a combination of a lot of things and personally I'd love to see the Joe packed to the rafters again.


btw. I know understand why Stevo Y is against fighting so this useless idiot Gudas can do a better job of being a rat and not having to answer to the tough guys, I hope he is pulling that stuff against the Mapleleafs, Bruins or Canadiens. If you reduce fighting or ban it that's exactly what will happen and rather see less rats than less great locker room guys that take pride in protecting star players, rookies and guys who can't defend themselves.

Edited by frankgrimes, 11 October 2013 - 07:28 AM.

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