Will young talent ever speak out against Wings philosophy?

[toby91_ca 620]

The philosophy isn't just a Wings' way, most teams do this. Having someone like Crosby come along and enter the league at 18 is a rarity. I think his year, he was the only player to play the year in the NHL right after being drafted. The fact is that the vast majority of players simply need further development. In Crosby's case, he'd play regardless of who drafted him, in other cases, it might be a matter of how desperate the drafting team is (i.e. Edmonton) - a lot of those younger players would benefit from more development.

The Wings situation has been two-fold: 1) they aren't drafting top end talent due to draft position and 2) they haven't been desperate to inject new talent....things could change of course.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Sure a player like Crosby is the exception but at some point these guys deserve a real chance. I agree with you the DetroitRedWings for now aren't desperate enough to inject youth, which could backfire. Teams can get away with making their young guns working extra hard if they are extremely talented but if not changes are you become the next Calgary Flames.

maybe the front office has become to complacent with some veterans who knows but the fact is, Tatar and Nyquist deserve a real chance otherwise they might move on and I wouldn't blame them one bit for doing so.

[toby91_ca 620]

Sure a player like Crosby is the exception but at some point these guys deserve a real chance. I agree with you the DetroitRedWings for now aren't desperate enough to inject youth, which could backfire. Teams can get away with making their young guns working extra hard if they are extremely talented but if not changes are you become the next Calgary Flames. maybe the front office has become to complacent with some veterans who knows but the fact is, Tatar and Nyquist deserve a real chance otherwise they might move on and I wouldn't blame them one bit for doing so.

There is a real risk in bringing a guy along too fast, much greater risk in that than the player getting frustrated and wanting to move on....most guys understand the process and benefit greatly from said process.

[Richdg 267]

IIRC the average age of career goal scoring years is 23. Not points, nor best overall years etc.... but in terms of goal scoring, most players have their best years in their early 20's. they learn defense as they get older, bigger, stronger, etc..... So most of our top prospects have their best goal scoring years in the minors. that is but one part of the game true, but something to keep in mind.

[Shaman 713]

The third line of Joakim Andersson centering Daniel Cleary and Todd Bertuzzi has yet to score a point this season and is a combined minus-8.

… The normal lines were skating together Monday, meaning Tomas Tatar is likely back to being an extra.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131007/SPORTS0103/310070105#ixzz2hAIPHmvI

Yeah, status quo, the ship that was sailed into mediocrity.

[Superman54 91]

The whole team plays piss poor on Saturday, Tatars first night, and Babs just assumed the reason was because of him?! In all seriousness Injuries are bound and those players like Tatar and Nyquist will get playing time and prove why they have to be on this club. I thought Nyquist demonstrated that point last season n' playoffs but i guess the smarter move was sign an allready full roster in Cleary, which would then mean sending Gus down....

[esteef 2,679]

The philosophy won't change until the playoff streak is broken. Tatar should have been a starter long ago.

esteef

[Richdg 267]

The worse part of this equation is/was, we can't trade tatar/nyquist for Ryan because they are the future. yet 1 is in the minors, 1 is in the rafters and we sign Alfie/cleary for more money than Ryan makes.

Now I have said before that I don't believe that tatar and nyquist will become stars. I see 40 point per year 3rd line guys. But I firmly believe that both should play every day and prove who/what they are every game.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

The philosophy won't change until the playoff streak is broken. Tatar should have been a starter long ago.

esteef

Sadly, you are right maybe it would have been better if this team broke the streak last year. The playoffs have given Kenny a very false impression on where the DetroitRedWings are. Not rushing young players is fine and the way to go but they have proven enough last season. If some f the veterans would be producing points...OK but they aren't.

Personally speakingnI thought Tatar was one of the better players against Boston.

[number9 3,297]

Like when little Bert put Jensen on the LTIR? Everyone on the forum was for it. Trying to make an impression and a name for himself. Go back a few years. probert, kocur, grimson all practiced fighting. Tommy hearns used to box Mccarty lapointe etc..... There are tryout videos online of McKee fighting others in the USHL tryout camp. Every player has to play their game to earn a spot. You do what you have too to make it.

Certainly not. You need to go back and re-read that thread. More than a few LGWers were against what Lil Bert did. I was one of the more adamant supporters of what Lil Bert did, but not for the reasons you are describing. I supported Bert because I felt he should - as an agitator - be allowed to agitate, and because he did not initiate the actual fight, Jensen did. He did not run Jensen or make a dangerous play.

I think guys like Bertuzzi should be allowed to play rough and tumble, but deliberately attempting to injury another prospect, let alone a full time wing, is beyond going too far. What you're describing is sociopathic. By the way you describe what's stopping Mrazek from arranging a little "accident" after practice for Howard? Do WHATEVER it takes right?

Do you really think if Tatar slammed Zetterbergs face into the glass at tryouts he would be on this team? It might free up a spot, but he would be hated by his own teammates and by management as well. Fighting is one thing, and it happens at tryouts and camps when things get heated, but you don't attempt to run or injury a teammate EVER. A guy like that would find himself in the KHL veryyyy quickly.

[bakerbert 211]

There are 79 regular season games left to play this year, The young guys will get there playing time.

Injuries, loosing streaks, players games going to hell, back to back games and a ton of other reason will get these guys in the line up.

probably sooner rather then later.

Edited October 9, 2013 by bakerbert

[Nightfall 871]

Isn't that what we are doing now?

I'm not sure I understand what you are wanting from them. We only have 2 players that legitimately could be replaced by younger players and it make a difference...Cleary and Sammy. Who else do you want to see a young player take a spot from?

I am still waiting for someone to answer this question. Aside from Cleary and Sammy, I can't think of anyone else that i would like to see a young player take a spot from. Maybe Bert.....maybe.....

[number9 3,297]

I am still waiting for someone to answer this question. Aside from Cleary and Sammy, I can't think of anyone else that i would like to see a young player take a spot from. Maybe Bert.....maybe.....

I'm sure there are those who would say any of Miller, Tootoo, Eaves, Emmerton

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

I think instead of checking an older player at practice it would be better to just take the puck from him and not let him have it back. If you can do that you will probably get a spot.

On the other hand, players like Tatar and Nyquist have earned their spots. Nyquist's play last season and post showed he is Datsyuk's heir at this point. Cleary took his spot and so far hasn't shown me anything worthy or keeping it.

I'm all for Tatar leaving for the KHL if he feels under appreciated. I want him to stay. But maybe him leaving and thriving would have woken management up to their flaws.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Wings_Dynasty

[evilmrt 636]

Let's keep this on topic about hockey and not a discussion of what makes America great.

One of the best mod comments ever. HAHAHA

[Nev 1,085]

There are 79 regular season games left to play this year, The young guys will get there playing time.

Injuries, loosing streaks, players games going to hell, back to back games and a ton of other reason will get these guys in the line up.

probably sooner rather then later.

We've already got 3 forwards out injured and they can't get a game. So currently, we'd need 5 forwards injured before Babcock would be forced to play both of them. Do we really want 5 forwards injured? Because you bet they won't be Cleary, Sammy, Emmerton, Bertuzzi and Eaves. Some of them are going to be forwards that we actually like and want on the team.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

The Detroit Red Wings: Where forty is the new twenty thirty.

[Guest Crymson]

In answer to the OP: they get to be part of the most successful organization of the past 20 years, one that makes the playoffs every season; and they know that if they do well, they'll probably be treated very well by the organization for the rest of their careers.

And, as others have said, it's rather bad for one's career in the NHL to whine about such things. More, you make it seem as if this policy affects literally every prospect. That's not the case. Your diatribe was brought on by the fact that Nyquist is in the AHL and Tatar is scratched. That's all.

[Opie 308]

In answer to the OP: they get to be part of the most successful organization of the past 20 years, one that makes the playoffs every season; and they know that if they do well, they'll probably be treated very well by the organization for the rest of their careers.

And, as others have said, it's rather bad for one's career in the NHL to whine about such things. More, you make it seem as if this policy affects literally every prospect. That's not the case. Your diatribe was brought on by the fact that Nyquist is in the AHL and Tatar is scratched. That's all.

[sarcasm] But those are the only two youngsters the wings have[/sarcasm]

People act like this D doesn't have guys with less than a full season of NHL experience or that Andy isn't a youngster who got a chance.

Maybe it is because young guys like Dekeyser and Andy play a great defensive game.

I mean I know Smith is not the best defenseman on this team, but he plays solid D at times as well.

Players who are not defensively responsible, especially when young, are going to get passed over for a vet who plays solid in both ends every time in this org.

Not saying Tatar and Nyquist won't or can't eventually be that, but right now the org thinks there are better options.

[T.Low 1,011]

I am sort of torn here. We could be a team like the Oil and be on a 7 season playoff drought trying by trying to play all of our young kids or we can be like the wings and be on a 22 season playoff streak doing what we do. Don't get me wrong I would love to see some of our young players over the likes of Sammy and Cleary but with the success the wings have had with the way they have done things I don't see that changing any time soon. The young players still talk highly about the wings and how they are ran so I think its more us fans that have a problem with it then any of the players.

I agree I thought last year was the perfect mix of veterans and youngsters with the forward group.

Youngsters together on the third line playing against other teams third pairing D makes a lot of sense to me and it seemed to work out well.

Maybe too many youngsters on the defensive corps

It's kind of strange. I think we would benefit from more youngsters on offense, like the third line of Nyquist Andy and Tatar, but last year I think we would have benefited in the playoffs with the veteran experience of Ian White over the inexperience of young Smith.

Yes Babcock chooses opposite. Hmm.

Edited October 9, 2013 by T.Low

[Guest Playmaker]

I think DeKeyser would have been sent to GR but his agents made it quite clear he wouldn't sign here to play in the minors.

[kipwinger 8,492]

Hey now - did I say "hurt"?

My co-workers know better not to mess with F.Michael.....I just might do something totally irrational.....A good example; just this morning I bought the ingredients for my kick butt cheesy artichoke heart dip to share this upcoming weekend with said co-workers...Ok - if ya really wanna know...

Pre-heat over to 350 F

2 cups mayo (preferrably Hellmans - no fat free, nor reduced fat, and dear lord no miracle whip)

4 cups mozzarella cheese

2 cups parmesan cheese

2 cans 14 oz each can of artichoke hearts (not the marinated, nor the cocktail - just reg canned in water artichoke hearts - drain 1st - then it's best to cut/chop them down to bite size)

1 very large bowl for mixing

Combine the above ingredients into large mixing bowl, mix thoroughly, and then spread evenly into a baking dish, and bake for 25 to 30 min, or until the edges are 'golden brown'.

I prefer Keebler 'Town House Toppers' crackers, but you may use any cracker/chip/veggie.

This stuff is addictive...That's how evil I am.

Ok, so what did you mean when you said young guys should "take a run" at veterans and "knock them out of the lineup for a bit"? Just curious, since I've obviously got it wrong and god knows you couldn't possibly have meant to say something so dumb.

[kipwinger 8,492]

As another poster had already mentioned - is there anything wrong with a young player who's rather tired of either riding the pine at the NHL level, or a regular in GR, and is confident enough that he may possess greater skill/ability than lets say the 3 players I have mentioned earlier - so he gets in their face - roughs them up - shows the coaching staff that he's more than ready for regular duty at the NHL level?

I'm thinking if there's a true competitive spirit - some of these guys should show it, and if need be - "take it" since nuthin is gonna get handed out for free (well except silly contracts by Holland for the aging vets).

Some here such as yourself may forget that this is a competitive game; wallowing in self pity will get ya nowhere, and certainly complaining to the media will do no good with this organization...Sometimes ya gotta man the f-up to get things done...Sorry if that's a shock to you.

So you meant that the young guys should out compete the veterans, but you said "take a run at them" and "knock them out of the lineup for a bit"? Not buying it. Seems duplicitous to me. I'm not stupid and neither are you, if you had meant that they should outperform veterans, you would have said so.

[kipwinger 8,492]

Out perform them - smack'em around - intimidate them...Yes - all of the above.

It's not like the 3 aging vets are crucial for this teams success; if any kid wants a shot at regular ice time - he should go out, and show the coaching staff what he's made of.

The league is rich in history of players changing up their game in order to play at the NHL level be it thru physical play, or becomming a shot blocker, or concentrating on the defensive side of the game, etc, etc.

IMHO this team could use more sand paper on the 3rd/4th lines; why not play with a physical edge at practice, and show what ya can do?.....If you ruffle a few feathers in the process - well so be it...At least you'll get noticed.

Dude, you said "take a run at them" and "knock them out of the lineup". You didn't say, "compete harder". You were clearly implying that they should injure the vets. No matter what you're saying now, that's what you said before. We all realize it, and now you're dodging it...poorly. You aren't nearly as clever as you think. Just own up to the absurd s*** you said and move on.

[The Greek 323]

I think DeKeyser would have been sent to GR but his agents made it quite clear he wouldn't sign here to play in the minors.

It doesn't matter what was said before the contract is signed. DD got to stay because he has proven that he belongs on the wings.