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Will young talent ever speak out against Wings philosophy?


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#21 kipwinger

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:51 AM

Like when little Bert put Jensen on the LTIR? Everyone on the forum was for it. Trying to make an impression and a name for himself. Go back a few years. probert, kocur, grimson all practiced fighting. Tommy hearns used to box Mccarty lapointe etc..... There are tryout videos online of McKee fighting others in the USHL tryout camp. Every player has to play their game to earn a spot. You do what you have too to make it. 

 

Do you honestly not see any difference between an enforcer taking boxing lessons, and one teammate taking "a run" at another teammate in order to "knock him out of the lineup for a while"?  I think that you do, and I think you're just being obtuse just for the sake of it.  Futhermore, I certainly don't think you'd have advocated this position if it were say...Filppula hurting Datsyuk in order to gain an opportunity he didn't previously have. 

 

Nice try, but I'm not buying what you're selling. 


Edited by kipwinger, 08 October 2013 - 11:59 AM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#22 Richdg

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:13 PM

 

Do you honestly not see any difference between an enforcer taking boxing lessons, and one teammate taking "a run" at another teammate in order to "knock him out of the lineup for a while"?  I think that you do, and I think you're just being obtuse just for the sake of it.  Futhermore, I certainly don't think you'd have advocated this position if it were say...Filppula hurting Datsyuk in order to gain an opportunity he didn't previously have. 

 

Nice try, but I'm not buying what you're selling. 

Very simple: yes you do what you have too to win the job.



#23 kipwinger

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:23 PM

Very simple: yes you do what you have too to win the job.

 

So you'd be ok with it if Jarnkrok took a run at Zetterberg and injured him to "win the job"?  I don't believe you.  And this is a big if, but even if you actually believe that it says quite a lot about your character.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#24 Richdg

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:30 PM

 

So you'd be ok with it if Jarnkrok took a run at Zetterberg and injured him to "win the job"?  I don't believe you.  And this is a big if, but even if you actually believe that it says quite a lot about your character.

Yes. that is the mind set that made the US the greatest in the world. You go out and do, not sit and wait for things to happen. You take the chances, you take the risks, you be proactive, not passive and hope things turn out in life.



#25 kipwinger

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:33 PM

Yes. that is the mind set that made the US the greatest in the world. You go out and do, not sit and wait for things to happen. You take the chances, you take the risks, you be proactive, not passive and hope things turn out in life.

 

Haha, the U.S. is the "greatest in the world" because we injure our friends and teammates to get what they have?  It's funny, I don't remember them teaching me that in basic training when I was in the Army.  Tell me again about what makes the country great?


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#26 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:35 PM

Let's keep this on topic about hockey and not a discussion of what makes America great.

Also, any player that took a run at Zetterberg and injured him would find himself about as far from being in the lineup as you could get.



#27 toby91_ca

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:37 PM

The philosophy isn't just a Wings' way, most teams do this.  Having someone like Crosby come along and enter the league at 18 is a rarity.  I think his year, he was the only player to play the year in the NHL right after being drafted.  The fact is that the vast majority of players simply need further development.  In Crosby's case, he'd play regardless of who drafted him, in other cases, it might be a matter of how desperate the drafting team is (i.e. Edmonton) - a lot of those younger players would benefit from more development.

 

The Wings situation has been two-fold: 1) they aren't drafting top end talent due to draft position and 2) they haven't been desperate to inject new talent....things could change of course.



#28 frankgrimes

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 02:34 PM

Sure a player like Crosby is the exception but at some point these guys deserve a real chance. I agree with you the DetroitRedWings for now aren't desperate enough to inject youth, which could backfire. Teams can get away with making their young guns working extra hard if they are extremely talented but if not changes are you become the next Calgary Flames. maybe the front office has become to complacent with some veterans who knows but the fact is, Tatar and Nyquist deserve a real chance otherwise they might move on and I wouldn't blame them one bit for doing so.
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#29 toby91_ca

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:18 PM

Sure a player like Crosby is the exception but at some point these guys deserve a real chance. I agree with you the DetroitRedWings for now aren't desperate enough to inject youth, which could backfire. Teams can get away with making their young guns working extra hard if they are extremely talented but if not changes are you become the next Calgary Flames. maybe the front office has become to complacent with some veterans who knows but the fact is, Tatar and Nyquist deserve a real chance otherwise they might move on and I wouldn't blame them one bit for doing so.

There is a real risk in bringing a guy along too fast, much greater risk in that than the player getting frustrated and wanting to move on....most guys understand the process and benefit greatly from said process.



#30 Richdg

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:25 PM

IIRC the average age of career goal scoring years is 23. Not points, nor best overall years etc.... but in terms of goal scoring, most players have their best years in their early 20's. they learn defense as they get older, bigger, stronger, etc..... So most of our top prospects have their best goal scoring years in the minors. that is but one part of the game true, but something to keep in mind.



#31 Shaman

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:42 PM

 

The third line of Joakim Andersson centering Daniel Cleary and Todd Bertuzzi has yet to score a point this season and is a combined minus-8.

… The normal lines were skating together Monday, meaning Tomas Tatar is likely back to being an extra.



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#32 Superman54

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:02 PM

The whole team plays piss poor on Saturday, Tatars first night, and Babs just assumed the reason was because of him?! In all seriousness Injuries are bound and those players like Tatar and Nyquist will get playing time and prove why they have to be on this club. I thought Nyquist demonstrated that point last season n' playoffs but i guess the smarter move was sign an allready full roster in Cleary, which would then mean sending Gus down.... 


#33 esteef

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:41 PM

The philosophy won't change until the playoff streak is broken.  Tatar should have been a starter long ago.

 

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#34 Richdg

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:02 PM

The worse part of this equation is/was, we can't trade tatar/nyquist for Ryan because they are the future. yet 1 is in the minors, 1 is in the rafters and we sign Alfie/cleary for more money than Ryan makes.

Now I have said before that I don't believe that tatar and nyquist will become stars. I see 40 point per year 3rd line guys. But I firmly believe that both should play every day and prove who/what they are every game.



#35 frankgrimes

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:04 PM

The philosophy won't change until the playoff streak is broken.  Tatar should have been a starter long ago.
 
esteef


Sadly, you are right maybe it would have been better if this team broke the streak last year. The playoffs have given Kenny a very false impression on where the DetroitRedWings are. Not rushing young players is fine and the way to go but they have proven enough last season. If some f the veterans would be producing points...OK but they aren't.

Personally speakingnI thought Tatar was one of the better players against Boston.

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#36 number9

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:49 PM

Like when little Bert put Jensen on the LTIR? Everyone on the forum was for it. Trying to make an impression and a name for himself. Go back a few years. probert, kocur, grimson all practiced fighting. Tommy hearns used to box Mccarty lapointe etc..... There are tryout videos online of McKee fighting others in the USHL tryout camp. Every player has to play their game to earn a spot. You do what you have too to make it. 

 

Certainly not. You need to go back and re-read that thread. More than a few LGWers were against what Lil Bert did. I was one of the more adamant supporters of what Lil Bert did, but not for the reasons you are describing. I supported Bert because I felt he should - as an agitator - be allowed to agitate, and because he did not initiate the actual fight, Jensen did. He did not run Jensen or make a dangerous play.

 

I think guys like Bertuzzi should be allowed to play rough and tumble, but deliberately attempting to injury another prospect, let alone a full time wing, is beyond going too far. What you're describing is sociopathic. By the way you describe what's stopping Mrazek from arranging a little "accident" after practice for Howard? Do WHATEVER it takes right?

 

Do you really think if Tatar slammed Zetterbergs face into the glass at tryouts he would be on this team? It might free up a spot, but he would be hated by his own teammates and by management as well. Fighting is one thing, and it happens at tryouts and camps when things get heated, but you don't attempt to run or injury a teammate EVER. A guy like that would find himself in the KHL veryyyy quickly.



#37 bakerbert

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:00 PM

There are 79 regular season games left to play this year, The young guys will get there playing time. 

 

Injuries, loosing streaks, players games going to hell, back to back games and a ton of other reason will get these guys in the line up. 

probably sooner rather then later. 


Edited by bakerbert, 08 October 2013 - 09:03 PM.

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#38 Nightfall

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:50 PM

Isn't that what we are doing now?

 

I'm not sure I understand what you are wanting from them. We only have 2 players that legitimately could be replaced by younger players and it make a difference...Cleary and Sammy. Who else do you want to see a young player take a spot from? 

 

I am still waiting for someone to answer this question.  Aside from Cleary and Sammy, I can't think of anyone else that i would like to see a young player take a spot from.  Maybe Bert.....maybe.....


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#39 number9

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:55 PM

 

I am still waiting for someone to answer this question.  Aside from Cleary and Sammy, I can't think of anyone else that i would like to see a young player take a spot from.  Maybe Bert.....maybe.....

 

I'm sure there are those who would say any of Miller, Tootoo, Eaves, Emmerton



#40 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:00 AM

I think instead of checking an older player at practice it would be better to just take the puck from him and not let him have it back. If you can do that you will probably get a spot.

On the other hand, players like Tatar and Nyquist have earned their spots. Nyquist's play last season and post showed he is Datsyuk's heir at this point. Cleary took his spot and so far hasn't shown me anything worthy or keeping it.

I'm all for Tatar leaving for the KHL if he feels under appreciated. I want him to stay. But maybe him leaving and thriving would have woken management up to their flaws.

Edited by Wings_Dynasty, 09 October 2013 - 12:01 AM.

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It still would be nice to have that one guy.






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