Trade Proposal

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Cant give up on Smith yet. But Red Wings need speed and work ethic more than defense in my opinion. Ryan Callahan or Brandon Dubinsky type players.

[marcaractac 3,963]

I thought if someone signs a contract before age 35 and retires the years remaining were voided and didn't count against the cap such was the case with Rafalski

This is the case yes, but there was a rule thrown in to the new CBA to punish GM's who signed players to these lifetime contracts with low salary years tacked on the end to lower the cap hit. it is possible to be stuck with a cap hit pushing 10 mil a year if franzen retired at the right time. not sure how much of that the Wings would be on the hook for if he were to be traded, but it would not be good. even if he remains a Wing for life and retires before his contract is up it will be an issue for the team. buying him out is the only way to avoid this. the only other way to avoid it is eventually having a 40+ year old franzen on the team.

I wanna see him off this team as much as the next guy. but trading him would just lead to him causing an even bigger headache for wings fans down the road than he currently ever has.

Edited October 14, 2013 by marcaractac

[Dabura 12,207]

Would absolutely love Callahan, but he's one of the last guys I'd expect to be traded (anytime soon, at least).

But then, no one - NO ONE - expected Daniel Alfredsson to up and leave Ottawa, so ya never know. Therefore, Franzen and Smith will be traded. Huzzah!

Next best thing: we get a time machine and get ourselves an older Smith. 4-5 years from now sounds about right.

I'm not sure how a time machine would help the Franzen situation, but I'm working on it.

[AtlantaHotWings 984]

Would absolutely love Callahan, but he's one of the last guys I'd expect to be traded (anytime soon, at least).

But then, no one - NO ONE - expected Daniel Alfredsson to up and leave Ottawa, so ya never know. Therefore, Franzen and Smith will be traded. Huzzah!

Next best thing: we get a time machine and get ourselves an older Smith. 4-5 years from now sounds about right.

I'm not sure how a time machine would help the Franzen situation, but I'm working on it.

If we get a time machine built we go get 1997 Shanny and Feds and Lids and Stevie and Vladdy no reason to trade simply waive Sammy and others we don't like

[legaleaglewingsfan 75]

Would absolutely love Callahan, but he's one of the last guys I'd expect to be traded (anytime soon, at least).

But then, no one - NO ONE - expected Daniel Alfredsson to up and leave Ottawa, so ya never know. Therefore, Franzen and Smith will be traded. Huzzah!

Next best thing: we get a time machine and get ourselves an older Smith. 4-5 years from now sounds about right.

I'm not sure how a time machine would help the Franzen situation, but I'm working on it.

Go back in time and show KH the quote from franzen about not being a scorer and then hold him at gunpoint while he re-signs Hossa instead.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Let's just hope the Coyote's scouting department is too lazy to update their reports every year and still have Smith as the highly-toted prospect tearing it up at Wisconsin, and Franzen is still the goal-scoring beast dubbed the Mule by the great Steve Yzerman. It MIGHT just work then...

[Dabura 12,207]

Go back in time and show KH the quote from franzen about not being a scorer and then hold him at gunpoint while he re-signs Hossa instead.

That, and/or we bring back - or, um, forward - the Franzen from the Avs series. Hard to believe now that there was a time when he could single-handedly win a whole round for us like that.

If we get a time machine built we go get 1997 Shanny and Feds and Lids and Stevie and Vladdy no reason to trade simply waive Sammy and others we don't like

True.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Dabura

[evilmrt 636]

It will take far more than that to pry OEL away from Phoenix. He's set to become a premiere defenseman in this league. Good luck getting Edler and Kassian out of that package, too; the Canucks are high on Kassian, and Edler is on the top pairing over there.

Besides, as GMR has mentioned, we'd still be down one scoring winger.

Absolutely. As much as a it pains me to agree with you.

Phoenix, especially with the new ownership, is not going to give up a future franchise player. They want OEL to be the face of the team after Doan retires and play there the next 17 seasons or more.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Absolutely. As much as a it pains me to agree with you.

Phoenix, especially with the new ownership, is not going to give up a future franchise player. They want OEL to be the face of the team after Doan retires and play there the next 17 seasons or more.

Wouldn't that require them having a team for 17 more seasons? Or am I missing something?

This is the case yes, but there was a rule thrown in to the new CBA to punish GM's who signed players to these lifetime contracts with low salary years tacked on the end to lower the cap hit. it is possible to be stuck with a cap hit pushing 10 mil a year if franzen retired at the right time. not sure how much of that the Wings would be on the hook for if he were to be traded, but it would not be good. even if he remains a Wing for life and retires before his contract is up it will be an issue for the team. buying him out is the only way to avoid this. the only other way to avoid it is eventually having a 40+ year old franzen on the team.

I wanna see him off this team as much as the next guy. but trading him would just lead to him causing an even bigger headache for wings fans down the road than he currently ever has.

His contract would be up when he is 39

[Kira 451]

Why can't we find some unsuspecting suckers to trade Cleary to? Seriously, I wish he wouldn't have bothered to come back.

[ogreslayer 1,069]

No, I did not realize that. And I don't understand how there can be any such agreement. It sounds absolutely ridiculous.

That wouldn't be a trade at all, it would be like a glorified wife swap where you are stll legally married to the wife you want to be done with. Wtf?

It's the Cap Recapture Rule, also known as the Luongo Rule, which ends up recapturing the cap advantage from the early years in those "lifetime" contracts & adds it to a team's salary cap over the remaining years of the contract if the player retires before it's up. You can play around w/ Franzen scenarios here: http://www.capgeek.com/recapture-calculator/?player_id=292&player_submit=on

Personal opinion, if Mule doesn't get his ass in gear this season, he very well could be looking at a compliance buyout come June as improbable as that once seemed.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Cleary is on pace to cruise to a nice 16 point season

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Wouldn't that require them having a team for 17 more seasons? Or am I missing something?

His contract would be up when he is 39

Franzen turns 40 in December of 2019 so he'll be 40 when his contract expires.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Franzen turns 40 in December of 2019 so he'll be 40 when his contract expires.

You are correct, I apologize, but he stillborn be forty-something, just forty

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Cant give up on Smith yet. But Red Wings need speed and work ethic more than defense in my opinion. Ryan Callahan or Brandon Dubinsky type players.

Ryan Callahan is a perfect example of what the Wings need. Especially with Helm out constantly.

[Dabura 12,207]

Ryan Callahan is a perfect example of what the Wings need. Especially with Helm out constantly.

Agreed.

Secretly I'm hoping the Rangers lose the rest of their games this season and we somehow get Callahan and Girardi in the offseason.

I'm a dreamer.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Dabura

[T.Low 1,011]

It's the Cap Recapture Rule, also known as the Luongo Rule, which ends up recapturing the cap advantage from the early years in those "lifetime" contracts & adds it to a team's salary cap over the remaining years of the contract if the player retires before it's up. You can play around w/ Franzen scenarios here: http://www.capgeek.com/recapture-calculator/?player_id=292&player_submit=on

Personal opinion, if Mule doesn't get his ass in gear this season, he very well could be looking at a compliance buyout come June as improbable as that once seemed.

Thanks for the explanation, but that is the part that I did understand. what I did not know was that the liability stayed after the player was traded

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Thanks for the explanation, but that is the part that I did understand. what I did not know was that the liability stayed after the player was traded

The penalty applies to any team that received a cap advantage from one of those long term contracts, even if the player is traded. The only way the Wings can avoid the risk of carrying a cap hit from Franzen retiring early is to do a buyout.

Edited October 14, 2013 by ogreslayer

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Agreed.

Secretly I'm hoping the Rangers lose the rest of their games this season and we somehow get Callahan and Girardi in the offseason.

I'm a dreamer.

I'd probably poop myself. Hopefully next year we have one of the younger teams in the league where those 2 would be considered old. Time to lose the old over the hill vets and spend money on good vets and young talent.

Agreed.

Secretly I'm hoping the Rangers lose the rest of their games this season and we somehow get Callahan and Girardi in the offseason.

I'm a dreamer.

I'd probably poop myself. Hopefully next year we have one of the younger teams in the league where those 2 would be considered old. Time to lose the old over the hill vets and spend money on good vets and young talent.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Thanks for the explanation, but that is the part that I did understand. what I did not know was that the liability stayed after the player was traded

Yeah Gary made sure to get that in in order to punish anyone who tried to circumvent the cap in the past.

Back on topic..no sense in listing franchise guys or captains of other teams. Its hard enough to make a trade let alone one of those types of trades.

Maybe take a chance on a guy like Ryan Malone. Big, slow, injury-prone and well into his 30s. Seems like the Wings style lol

[evilmrt 636]

Wouldn't that require them having a team for 17 more seasons? Or am I missing something?

So you seriously think a franchise will be dissolved? Lol. Contracts aren't pinned to geographic locations. He'll finish his career in Quebec or Seattle.

[Dabura 12,207]

You guys are a buncha buzz kills. Shame on you.

There's nothing to say we can't and won't snag a key piece (at some point in the extremely distant future). Maybe not a Dustin Brown, and maybe not for Johan Franzen, but it's not like we're locked out of any and all potential trades of significance forever. I know, I know - "That's just not how it's done these days." But I also know (or, believe very strongly) that Holland has little "faith in the farm," despite all his claims to the contrary. Plus, people do still make trades. (See: Nill, Jim.)

SO SHUT UP. WE'RE GETTING GRETZKY

[legaleaglewingsfan 75]

You guys are a buncha buzz kills. Shame on you.

There's nothing to say we can't and won't snag a key piece (at some point in the extremely distant future). Maybe not a Dustin Brown, and maybe not for Johan Franzen, but it's not like we're locked out of any and all potential trades of significance forever. I know, I know - "That's just not how it's done these days." But I also know (or, believe very strongly) that Holland has little "faith in the farm," despite all his claims to the contrary. Plus, people do still make trades. (See: Nill, Jim.)

SO SHUT UP. WE'RE GETTING GRETZKY

Gretzky now or Gretzky circa 1980's? Can we trade Mule for Gretzky's daughter?

[AtomicPunk 296]

I stopped reading at "for something good". How can you evaluate that trade?

[Dabura 12,207]

I stopped reading at "for something good". How can you evaluate that trade?

Basically I was leaving it up to you guys to fill in the blank. I figured it's generally accepted that we could really use a top defenseman, so I guess the question is essentially "Would you be willing to part with Franzen and Smith if it meant landing That Elite Defenseman we need (assuming you agree we need him. And if you don't, then make him a scoring winger. There's no gun to your head here)?"

Then again, "Would you trade Franzen and Smith for [i'M NOT TELLING!!!]?" is a pretty cool question. Very new-age.