Lineup Crunch: Who's going?

[AL g 0]

No way will any GM claim Sammy on waivers and pay him the full $3 mil. Even if the new CBA allows the Wings to eat most of his salary in a trade, the new team would still have $3 mil counted against THEIR salary cap......how many teams would be willing to do this ? Maybe a team way at the bottom of the salary cap scale, but then those teams are in a rebuilding mode with young players, not dinosaurs with injury issues. As far as some team picking up Sammy late in the season, that won't help the Wings cap issues now with injured players returning soon......if they were able to get rid of him, it has to be soon for cap relief.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's not as outlandish as it sounds initially, and it's certainly more likely than someone trading assets for him.

I agree with you there. No-trade clause + negative value = In our sweet dreams.

[kipwinger 8,521]

Think about it again from the viewpoint of a team like Buffalo or Florida though. They're not making the playoffs and are not even close to contenders. They're number one priority is long-term growth player and development. So why bring in overpaid guy like Sammy who's borderline retired and not known for his leadership? He will only take away minutes from those whom the team actually wants to develop while (if he actually did provide scoring) distancing them from a lottery pick. Teams like that (whether losing or not) want to create a positive atmosphere and a guy who just got ditched by a cup contender is not going to help with that.

Sure, that's a definite possibility. And perhaps Buffalo is a long shot in that regard. But Sammy has a history with Florida, had a moderate degree of success with them, and every young team needs veterans around the locker room. An example would be Vinny Prospal with Columbus. He was a guy at the tail end of his career who was a successful contributor on a young team and really helped in the leadership department.

Again, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's not out of the ballpark either.

[Ekmanc 586]

Well looks like Tatar is getting sick of waiting at least

http://instagram.com/p/fiVlmsH1TD/

[AL g 0]

Kwame has a greater chance of getting out of jail soon than Sammy does of getting traded with his albatross contract.

[kipwinger 8,521]

Kwame has a greater chance of getting out of jail soon than Sammy does of getting traded with his albatross contract.

Zing.

[T.Low 1,011]

I actually do think Edmonton could benefit from his veteran...well, I hesitate to use the term leadership... But they could use a guy who's been there, done that, won that,with some of the best players in the league.

Poll; Who will get out of jail sooner? Kwame, Nyquist, or Tatar?

[dat's sick 1,002]

There are enough terrible teams with trouble scoring that you'd think one would take a chance on a veteran like Sammy. Philly, Buffalo, Edmonton.. come on, someone take him!

[AL g 0]

Yes, there are several teams that could use a player like Sammy BUT are they willing to use $3 million against their salary cap ? Teams actually hire "capologists" these days because cap space is like gold. There are better players they can get for less money.

Philly doesn't have the cap space to take on Sammy's $3 million salary.

[T.Low 1,011]

I am really starting to worry about Holland. If he is this loyal to Sammy, what's it going to be like when Babcock starts losing?

If Babbs keeps Tatar on the bench much longer, I'll be ready for Blashill.

[brett 1,029]

can we has helm glendening and tootoo on same line?

[number9 3,297]

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Franzen

Tatar - Weiss - Abdelkader

Nyquist - Helm - Cleary

Miller - Andersson - Tootoo

Glendening

Here's what the forward line looks like next year (before free agency) assuming they re-sign Tatar, Glendening, and beloved Cleary, and Bert retires, Aflie retires, Eaves is waived, and Sammy hits FA.

Even without any FA acquisitions that's a pretty decent line up. And all the prospects will be a year older and closer to jumping up.

[matthewdanna 143]

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Franzen

Tatar - Weiss - Abdelkader

Nyquist - Helm - Cleary

Miller - Andersson - Tootoo

Glendening

Here's what the forward line looks like next year (before free agency) assuming they re-sign Tatar, Glendening, and beloved Cleary, and Bert retires, Aflie retires, Eaves is waived, and Sammy hits FA.

Even without any FA acquisitions that's a pretty decent line up. And all the prospects will be a year older and closer to jumping up.

And with Sammy gone, possibly Bert and Alfie retiring we are going to have a lot of coin to go after someone...

Perhaps Vanek? Callahan?

[Guest Crymson]

Here's what the forward line looks like next year (before free agency) assuming they re-sign Tatar, Glendening, and beloved Cleary, and Bert retires, Aflie retires, Eaves is waived, and Sammy hits FA.

Even without any FA acquisitions that's a pretty decent line up. And all the prospects will be a year older and closer to jumping up.

If Cleary's current level of play continues, I sincerely doubt he'll be on the team next season. The organization loved Draper, but they likewise told him goodbye when it became clear that his leadership and other positive moral attributes could not compensate for his flagging level of play.

I am really starting to worry about Holland. If he is this loyal to Sammy, what's it going to be like when Babcock starts losing?

In what regard is Holland being loyal to Samuelsson? He can't do a darned thing. If Samuelsson doesn't want to be traded, then he can't be traded, and dumping him in the minors will only garner an extra $100K of cap space. He'd have been bought out if not for his injury.

Kwame has a greater chance of getting out of jail soon than Sammy does of getting traded with his albatross contract.

It's not an albatross contract. It's one year at an average salary. He's just injury-prone and ineffective; no team would want him anyway.

[joesuffP 1,746]

Cleary has been fine I swear some of you don't even watch the games and still ***** about Cleary

[Guest Crymson]

Cleary has been fine I swear some of you don't even watch the games and still ***** about Cleary

Cleary is doing nothing that Tatar could not do more effectively. He tries his best, as ever, but his body is broken.

[Dabura 12,207]

Cleary is doing nothing that Tatar could not do more effectively. He tries his best, as ever, but his body is broken.

To be fair, Cleary is much better defensively, and he does still provide a good degree of "grit and such." I am, of course, a big Tatar fan, and I hate that he's not playing - but he is, at present, a smallish, one-dimensional scorer. Not necessarily saying I'd take Cleary over him, mind you. Just sayin'.

[Guest mjtm77]

Cleary is doing nothing that Tatar could not do more effectively. He tries his best, as ever, but his body is broken.

Cleary plays fine and you better get use to him cause he is getting a raise. and Tatar and Cleary are completely different players

[T.Low 1,011]

If Cleary's current level of play continues, I sincerely doubt he'll be on the team next season. The organization loved Draper, but they likewise told him goodbye when it became clear that his leadership and other positive moral attributes could not compensate for his flagging level of play.

In what regard is Holland being loyal to Samuelsson? He can't do a darned thing. If Samuelsson doesn't want to be traded, then he can't be traded, and dumping him in the minors will only garner an extra $100K of cap space. He'd have been bought out if not for his injury.

It's not an albatross contract. It's one year at an average salary. He's just injury-prone and ineffective; no team would want him anyway.

Easy there, Turbo, I'm referring to the contract term and ntc.

[Guest Crymson]

Easy there, Turbo, I'm referring to the contract term and ntc.

That had nothing to do with loyalty. Two years is not a long contract, and the 2012 UFA class was so piss-poor and full of NTCs that any player of moderate ability could demand one.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

It's not just this season though, last year Tootoo played less at even strength than every other (regular) forward. Only Mursak, Helm, and Sheahan had less ES time on ice per game. He also hardly used him in the playoffs, what was it...a game or two? This year it's even less. Now factor in the fact that we're taking more penalties so far this year and his available time on ice is further decreased. You may be right about each team needing something different, but that doesn't mean the "something different" should be a one dimensional guy who hits. Maybe the "something different" is a freak offensive d-man like Karlsson, or maybe it's a Holmstrom type net front guy who makes the difference. Maybe it's a Dustin Byfuglien type "rover". Maybe all of the above. But I think it's misleading to suggest that the "something different" on which a Stanley Cup depends (according to you) needs to be a fourth line hitter who plays six or seven minutes a night and only in 5-on-5 situations. That's giving the guy WAY more credit than he's earned.

Please dont put words in my mouth. I have never stated that Detroit's chances of winning another cup stands or falls with a fourth liner. That is just another debate tactic by people who wants to get rid of fighting and all things physical in the game of hockey. I stated that Detroit has never won a cup without a player(s) with a different skill set, and I think you understand that I dont mean another offensive player like Karlsson. If you have truly followed the Red Wings for as long as you say, you will know that this is not BS. Again, to me Tootoo is much more than a hitting and fighting machine. He draws penalties, he will get the crowd going and add energy to the team but he will also stand up for his teammates. Look, if you do not see the value in the qualities of a guy like Tootoo (that you say you do) then we can continue this discussion forever. You will not convince me that Eaves adds more value to this club than Tootoo with the current lineup and the opposite is true for you.

[BadgerBob 297]

And with Sammy gone, possibly Bert and Alfie retiring we are going to have a lot of coin to go after someone...

Perhaps Vanek? Callahan?

Callahan yes please!

[kipwinger 8,521]

Please dont put words in my mouth. I have never stated that Detroit's chances of winning another cup stands or falls with a fourth liner. That is just another debate tactic by people who wants to get rid of fighting and all things physical in the game of hockey. I stated that Detroit has never won a cup without a player(s) with a different skill set, and I think you understand that I dont mean another offensive player like Karlsson. If you have truly followed the Red Wings for as long as you say, you will know that this is not BS. Again, to me Tootoo is much more than a hitting and fighting machine. He draws penalties, he will get the crowd going and add energy to the team but he will also stand up for his teammates. Look, if you do not see the value in the qualities of a guy like Tootoo (that you say you do) then we can continue this discussion forever. You will not convince me that Eaves adds more value to this club than Tootoo with the current lineup and the opposite is true for you.

Fighting in hockey is stupid, everybody knows my position on it. There I said it, I feel better. My opinion on fighting is not why I think Tootoo is the odd man out. I think that because he makes more than Eaves and plays far, far, far less. You can make this about my position on fighting if you want, but you still haven't really explained why Tootoo hardly plays if indeed he's so valuable.

You're talking about of both sides of your mouth. You imply that Tootoo brings a unique skill set and that every team that wins the Cup needs at least one guy with a unique skill set. So far, I can sorta go along with you. But then you say it's not about his hitting for fighting, which are the only thing he brings that are unique on this team. He does not play special teams, he's not a defensive whiz, he provides no offense, and he plays less than all other forwards 5-on-5. Then you say it's about some amorphous intangibles like bringing "energy" and "pumping up the crowd". But those aren't unique skills. Big saves, goals, important penalty kills, all "provide energy" and "pump up the crowd". Even by your standards he fails to bring more intangibles than anyone else...except hitting and fighting, which you say isn't the point.

Tootoo hits and fights. And that's fine, he should play his game. But he doesn't do anything else of value that someone else doesn't do better...and the Red Wings HARDLY value that. That's why he's the odd man out.

Edited October 17, 2013 by kipwinger

[bakerbert 211]

I like TooToo and he is a lot of fun to watch when he is out there.

But for almost 2 mill a year and only 6 minutes of playing time per game, seems like that money could be spent a little more wisely (especially with the cap crunch we are in now).

I will be sad if he leaves but seems to me he is the most logical choice at the moment.

Very interested to see how this all plays out.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Fighting in hockey is stupid, everybody knows my position on it. There I said it, I feel better. My opinion on fighting is not why I think Tootoo is the odd man out. I think that because he makes more than Eaves and plays far, far, far less. You can make this about fighting or whatever if you want, but you still haven't really explained why Tootoo hardly plays if indeed he's so valuable.

Good for you, I had a feeling that's where we were headed. I didnt think I needed to, but you have said it yourself. He plays a limited role on a team that put most emphasis on skill. Doesnt mean he can or should be replaced by anybody and Eaves is not the guy in my opinion.