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wings87

stephen weiss

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Guest Playmaker

There just isn't anything I've seen from watching Weiss with the Wings or in the past with Florida that leads me to believe he's a significant upgrade over Filppula.

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The goalie ultimately made the save on Stamkos but Flip had an end to end rush tonight where he carried the puck through like 5 guys and made a nice pass to Stamkos.

Where the hell was that when he was a Red Wing?

2011-12 season called, it wanted me to remind you it happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thIsL_oBN-o

Edited by dat's sick

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The goalie ultimately made the save on Stamkos but Flip had an end to end rush tonight where he carried the puck through like 5 guys and made a nice pass to Stamkos.

Where the hell was that when he was a Red Wing?

he also scored a SO goal. I cant recall him ever scoring one of them as a wing

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2011-12 season called, it wanted me to remind you it happened.

2003 called and wanted me to remind you that's a tired joke.

Saw the edit and the YT. It is pretty good. The one to Stamkos was better though he didn't finish.

I guess he does do it once every couple years?

I just don't get what Flips problem was here. That he could show flashed of skill like that but then seems so reluctant offensively for long stretches.

he also scored a SO goal. I cant recall him ever scoring one of them as a wing

I can't either specifically but I don't think he took that many, did he?

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:lol:

And people were calling me dumb for saying I didn't like the Weiss signing the day it was announced .

This guy is undersized, he can't score during ES hockey, and he is a defensive liability. I will repeat, once again: Filppula scored more often during even strength hockey on the second line than Weiss did playing with the top line.

People were upset that Filppula couldn't put it together?? Weiss has played in the NHL for three more seasons that Filppula and hasn't put it together yet!!

And, before it starts, no, this is not a claim that I wanted to get Filppula back... this is a claim that NEITHER player was worth $3M/YR- LET ALONE $5!

10/21: "sign a stop-gap, physical center (Matt Cullen-$3.5M or Tyler Kennedy-$2.35M). Neither guys are significantly bigger than Weiss, but they play a HELL of a lot tougher. You can't get even smaller on a finesse team and expect your center to win those physical match-ups. "

10/08: "I think you're missing my point, although it may not be clear: I didn't like Filppula. However, that doesn't mean I like Weiss simply for the fact that he's the replacement. I think he's a replacement-level player, but they were BOTH given SIGNIFICANTLY overvalued contracts. That's my issue." AND "Like I said, Weiss makes up his stats on the Power Play, and always has. He's too small to do any better 5-on-5. He operates best in space, not the kind of contract you give to an undersized, 2nd center."

10/07: "When you look at what Tyler Kennedy or Matt Cullen signed for, it makes you shake your head. Here's guys that can play the PK and would also be a physical presence next to Zetterberg. Look at Tyler Bozak playing next to Kessel. Think that couldn't be Zetterberg instead? He signed for less money and he's 2 1/2 years younger. "

"And, yes, it has to do with the team around them, but Weiss was also +12 more than any other player ON THE POWER PLAY during his best season (+19) with playing only on 14.5% of the PK. So he takes advantage of not playing on the PK while also playing on the PP.

But... you all wanted to run Filppula out of town? Dude, the Red Wings didn't replace him with anyone significantly better...."

07/05: "I'm on board with the people aligning with this style of thinking. I just don't understand how you give nearly $5M to a guy that has only performed exceptionally well when flanked by really good wingers (Booth/Horton). Even then, he isn't much of a two-way player, and isn't very good in the faceoff circle (although, I will admit, he's finally reached 50% over the past two years). I suppose I would be okay with the money if it was over three years and not five, but I think this signing will turn out to be a move that fans point back to in a couple of years and wonder why the Red Wings jumped the gun.

I may very well be wrong. In fact, as a fan of the team, I WANT to be wrong. But when I hang up the sweater and look at this objectively... I think it has all of the makings of the subject featured in another popular thread: an overreaction. I think the Red Wings jumped the gun and way overpaid in both years and dollars for a guy in a limited pool. If it was $5.9 over two years... fine. But $4.9 over 5? Not a fan."

So there you have it.

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Guest Playmaker

I didn't think it was the coup or the missing link that some here seemed to think it was. Wasn't really a huge fan of the Alfredsson signing either, and don't even get me started on Cleary! Weiss' injury history was a concern to me. I did think he'd be better than he is now, and hopefully he still will be.

As far as Flip goes, it may just be something as simple as having like someone like Stevie Y saying "we WANT you, we think you're great and will help our team". I never got the feeling Babcock was all that into him. If he did well, it was like well he should play that well and he took the brunt of the blame for offensive droughts. The mental part of the game is huge and confidence is everything. Of course playing with Stamkos probably doesn't hurt anything either.

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:lol:

And people were calling me dumb for saying I didn't like the Weiss signing the day it was announced .

This guy is undersized, he can't score during ES hockey, and he is a defensive liability. I will repeat, once again: Filppula scored more often during even strength hockey on the second line than Weiss did playing with the top line.

Defensive liability ? You can criticize Weiss for not scoring enough but he is damn good at passing and protecting the puck. He may not be the offensive powerhouse we all wanted (yet), but he is the opposite of a defensive liability.

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Guest Crymson

So saying that 2 months is a ton of time to recover from a leg injury (which is way worse in terms of fitness level than a wrist injury, especially for a player with skating as one of his biggest strengths) for one player but 7 months isn't enough for another player with a wrist injury isn't completely biased and delusional? Okay.

Sorry, keep on going everyone. Filppula sucks with his 9 points in 12 games and Weiss is way better with his 2 points in 13.

Shall I go over Filppula's production thus far once again? Yeah, let's do that.

Goal #1: Brewer takes the puck all the way up the ice with Filppula trailing behind. Brewer's shot hits the goalie's pads and goes directly to Filppula, who has 90% of the net to shoot into.

Goal #2: Mundane shot let in by a mediocre goalie having an awful game.

Goal #3: Terrible goal let in by the same goalie.

Goal #4: Shot from the point deflected off of his skate.

Assist #1: Filppula passes it to one of his linemates, whereupon the latter and the other fellow on the line cycle the puck between each other for ten seconds and score while Filppula remains uninvolved.

Assist #2: Quality, cross-ice pass to Johnson for a goal.

Assist #3: A wide-open Filppula passes to a wide-open Carle at the point. Goal by Carle.

Assist #4: Filppula wins a face-off to Stamkos at the point, and the league's best goal-scorer slams it into the goal. Barely an assist at all.

Assist #5: Filppula takes a shot from the right circle that rebounds off the goalie to another player on his team. Goal.

In other words, Filppula's numbers have been misleading, just as Cleary's tally from the postseason was. Weiss has not been good enough offensively, but Filppula has not been nearly as productive as his point totals make it seem.

Edited by Crymson

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I expected more points but its still really early in the season. People forget it only takes a hot streak for his stats to look good. But I mean this can be said to just about the entire team no? Besides Syuk, Zetts and Alfie the secondary scoring all around has been nonexistent. I cannot wait to see this team when its in a more comfortable state.

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I thought he was REALLY close last night to taking his game to the level he should be playing at. I would love Babs to put him with Pavs and Z to try to get his confidence back. I agree that he is getting better and comfortable with the Wings system.

I was a Flip supporter....I still am. Why can't you love hockey and really like certain other players who play elsewhere but love the Wings?

Weiss will breakout...it's just a matter of time. I'd rather him than Franzen every day. At least the guy shows some heart and competes. The rest will come

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Guest Playmaker

Shall I go over Filppula's production thus far once again? Yeah, let's do that.

Goal #1: Brewer takes the puck all the way up the ice with Filppula trailing behind. Brewer's shot hits the goalie's pads and goes directly to Filppula, who has 90% of the net to shoot into.

Goal #2: Mundane shot let in by a mediocre goalie having an awful game.

Goal #3: Terrible goal let in by the same goalie.

Goal #4: Shot from the point deflected off of his skate.

Assist #1: Filppula passes it to one of his linemates, whereupon the latter and the other fellow on the line cycle the puck between each other for ten seconds and score while Filppula remains uninvolved.

Assist #2: Quality, cross-ice pass to Johnson for a goal.

Assist #3: A wide-open Filppula passes to a wide-open Carle at the point. Goal by Carle.

Assist #4: Filppula wins a face-off to Stamkos at the point, and the league's best goal-scorer slams it into the goal. Barely an assist at all.

Assist #5: Filppula takes a shot from the right circle that rebounds off the goalie to another player on his team. Goal.

In other words, Filppula's numbers have been misleading, just as Cleary's tally from the postseason was. Weiss has not been good enough offensively, but Filppula has not been nearly as productive as his point totals make it seem.

The work on his SO goal was done entirely by a teammate.

LOL...tell me you're not serious. Maybe I'm confused here, but isn't SO, shoot out? How does a team mate do the work on a shootout goal?

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Guest Crymson

LOL...tell me you're not serious. Maybe I'm confused here, but isn't SO, shoot out? How does a team mate do the work on a shootout goal?

It appears I got myself all mixed up. I'd gotten it into my hand that Filppula's first goal was shorthanded, for whatever reason, then misread SO as SH and used the wrong acronym myself.

In my defense, I had just woken up. Anyway, the rest of the post is correct.

Edited by Crymson

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Guest Playmaker

You can go through just about any player's points and there are going to be goals and assists that maybe the player didn't "deserve". Just as there are points that should have been had but were taken away on an outstanding save by the goalie or whatever. I haven't watched all the Tampa games or even most of one, but what I have seen Filppula's stats are indicative of his play. Even if he had zero points and played horribly, it doesn't mean that Weiss hasn't totally underachieved.

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Shall I go over Filppula's production thus far once again? Yeah, let's do that.

No, lets talk about how incredibly biased you are and how you completely bulls*** everything you say, such as saying that 2 months is plenty of recovery time and then a week later say that 7 months isn't enough recovery time for comparable injuries.

And you could do the same undervaluing of points for basically every single player in the league. The fact is if you play well you will get points. Flip is playing well, and he's getting points. Maybe if we nit pick every single point and goal for whether or not he deserves it, he should start giving points for great plays even if they don't result in goals.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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Guest Crymson

You can go through just about any player's points and there are going to be goals and assists that maybe the player didn't "deserve". Just as there are points that should have been had but were taken away on an outstanding save by the goalie or whatever. I haven't watched all the Tampa games or even most of one, but what I have seen Filppula's stats are indicative of his play. Even if he had zero points and played horribly, it doesn't mean that Weiss hasn't totally underachieved.

Weiss has underachieved.

No, lets talk about how incredibly biased you are and how you completely bulls*** everything you say, such as saying that 2 months is plenty of recovery time and then a week later say that 7 months isn't enough recovery time for comparable injuries.

I don't recall ever having compared their injuries. You're thinking of somebody else.

That said, the statistics I've listed for Filppula, both now and in earlier discussions, have all been correct. They are factual, and are therefore not at all the product of bias or bull****, whatever you actually mean by the latter. Whatever the case, I see you're once again resorting to your previous tack of attempting to undermine my credibility. Focus on the facts instead; this is a discussion forum.

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I haven't watched all the Tampa games or even most of one, but what I have seen Filppula's stats are indicative of his play.

They are. Go take a look at the TBL forum, they love him.

Even if he had zero points and played horribly, it doesn't mean that Weiss hasn't totally underachieved.

See, for Crymson, it does. Just like, for Crymson, wasting time and nit picking each of Filppula's points means that he didn't just say that 2 months is more than enough recovery time but 7 months isn't enough. Which he totally did say.

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I don't recall ever having compared their injuries. You're thinking of somebody else.

That said, the statistics I've listed for Filppula, both now and in earlier discussions, have all been correct. They are factual, and are therefore not at all the product of bias or bull****, whatever you actually mean by the latter. Whatever the case, I see you're once again resorting to your previous tack of attempting to undermine my credibility. Focus on the facts instead; this is a discussion forum.

Focusing on facts? What could possibly be more subjective than what you said of Filppula points? If that stuff "shouldn't be counted" then no player would score more than 25 points a season. And that is factual (you know, just because I say it is) so I'm not biased. In fact, everything I ever said about Filppula ever is factual, so it's not biased. Boom. Argument over.

As for the injuries, you're wrong again. After I said that Filppula poor season was due, in part, to his pre-season injury, you promptly dismissed that, twice, and said 2 months was plenty of recovery time.

Your other two arguments likewise hold no water. With regards to his injury, Filppula had two months to recover before entering play.

Filppula had two months to recover from what tends to be an injury of 6-8 weeks length.

So according to you, 7 months is a shorter time than 2 months. And you're trying to sling a completely subjective assessment as fact when you say stupid s*** like that. Okay.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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Guest Crymson

Focusing on facts? What could possibly be more subjective than what you said of Filppula points? And that is factual (you know, just because I say it is) so I'm not biased. In fact, everything I ever said about Filppula ever is factual, so it's not biased. Boom. Argument over.

Mine was a report drawn from video evidence. I did nothing but describe each goal and assist that he has logged thus far. I suggest that you do so as well before we continue discussing this particular point.

If that stuff "shouldn't be counted" then no player would score more than 25 points a season.

That is thoroughly untrue.

As for the injuries, you're wrong again. After I said that Filppula poor season was due, in part, to his pre-season injury, you promptly dismissed that, twice, and said 2 months was plenty of recovery time.

So according to you, 7 months is a shorter time than 2 months. And you're trying to sling a completely subjective assessment as fact when you say stupid s*** like that. Okay.

Had I attributed Weiss's poor play to his injury, then you would have a point. However, I have never once done so---you may check through my content to confirm this---and your accusation is therefore totally without merit.

Edited by Crymson

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Defensive liability also means NOT doing the following: taking to puck away from the opposition, taking your mark out of the play, and making a great play with your stick. You all just brought up OFFENSIVE things. Making passes in your defensive zone is still offense when you have the puck FYI

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