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#21 Dabura

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 03:07 PM

Howard stopped the penalty shot and gave up a breakaway goal. If I remember right, Ribiero scored a couple of goals after the puck had bounced around in the slot and he pretty much had open net to shoot at both times.  Loss wasn't on Howard. Howard didn't give up any weak goals.  Defensive zone faceoff losses are more to blame.

 

Ultimately, it doesn't matter who gets the nod in net last night - either way, we lose. But I think we had something kinda good going with Monster. If you read some of the press from the games we won with him in net, especialy the Avs game, he's refered to a number of times - directly and indirectly - as One of Those Hot Goalies, the kind who comes out of nowhere and plays out of his mind. That's something pretty special, especially when you consider how much hand-wringing was happening re: our once-non-existent "tandem."

 

And maybe it was just me, but I thought we sort of elevated our d-game (e.g. blocking shots) and maybe even our o-game to sort of help the hot backup goalie out. I think we have a bit of a tendency to fall asleep in front of Jimmy, because he's Jimmy.


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#22 Franzine

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 03:08 PM

Starting Howard was not a coaching error.



#23 Dabura

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 03:08 PM

We are extraordinarily good at killing our own momentum.


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#24 Echolalia

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 03:47 PM

1) Where was this "coaching error" opinion when the Wings were up 2-0 late in the second period?  Its easy to point the blame after you know the result, but for some reason these opinions never pop up before the game begins.

2) Why do you start Jimmy over a goalie who's been playing hot the past three games?  First of all, as others have mentioned, because Gus played 3 games in 4 nights, and goalies shouldn't be run into the ground like that. Frankly if it was Jimmy who played 3 in 4, I would expect Gus to get the start for game 5.  Secondly, the Wings play the Sharks tomorrow, and I don't know if you've looked at the standings recently but the Sharks are playing near-unstoppable hockey right now.  You go with your number 1 goalie in that type of game and you don't do it as his first game back from injury.

3) Where is all the blame in the rest of the Wings team, who suddenly gave up with 21 minutes left in the game and allowed 5 goals unanswered in that time?  Its a bit irresponsible to pin this all on Babcock for his decision to start Jimmy Howard.  I would look first to why everyone stopped playing tenaciously after getting a 2 goal lead.



#25 darkmanx

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 04:10 PM

Wings will have to break up Z and D when playing against the Sharks. No way in hell can our 2nd, 3rd or 4th lines withhold their 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines.



#26 pucktividi

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 04:44 PM

Babs didn't like the lines and that's why he mixed them all up.He deserved a huge credit for that as we went 4-0.The part of that was sending Sammy in the press box and dressing Tootoo.Didn't work earlier with Sammy on the 4th line so why the hell should that work this time?

 

Starting Jimmy was reasonable,no other option than Smith was available on a D,but in a case of Sammy/Tootoo/Tatar he made a coaching error.



#27 Opie

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:20 PM

So a guy who saw 10:43 of ice time was the big mistake Babs made?

 

Really?


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"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
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#28 Red Crazy

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:57 PM

I believe that he made a mistake by juggling the lines on a nice streak. Tootoo was playing great and brought good energy to the 4th line and to the team and he did not deserve to sit for Sammy. Staring Jimmy in net was a no brainer.



#29 Opie

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:08 PM

I love how Tootoo can do absolutely nothing but run around like a freight train off the rails and he played great!

But if Sammy or Miller don't pot a hatrick and a fight they are useless!


"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#30 evilmrt

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:48 PM

The loss is on the entire team, no question.

I do, however, think that it's a good rule of thumb to let a hot backup goalie ride out his streak. No idea why Babs didn't, really odd decision.
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#31 Dabura

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:36 PM

I love how Tootoo can do absolutely nothing but run around like a freight train off the rails and he played great!

But if Sammy or Miller don't pot a hatrick and a fight they are useless!

 

First of all, I think all of, like, one person has complained about Miller.

 

Second, how many people have said, "I don't like Sammy and/or Miller because they're not scoring like madmen and fighting!"? I mean, I know you're using hyperbole or whatever, but still. People don't like Sammy because he's Sammy. Borderline useless. You can almost feel him dragging down the fourth line and second PP unit.

 

Third, Tootoo. Tootoo is at his best when he's drawing penalties, and playing an energetic game with discipline and intelligence (i.e. not running around like a freight train off the rails). He's been doing that (like I said, he's had some really good shifts over these past few games). I think we could've really used his energy, his physicality, and his penalty-drawing abilities last night. He, Glendening and Miller had a pretty good thing going. Why kill it? I mean, I get the logic. Kindl goes to the first PP unit, and since we secretly have no faith in our other young defensemen, it's Sammy to the rescue! But man, we really needed a spark last night (we were incredibly slow, passive, and altogether uninspired for most of the game), and that makes sense, considering how many games we've played in how many nights. So you put in...an old, slow, mostly non-physical Sammy? Bad call, IMHO.

 

But maybe this is all sort of moot, since Tootoo is almost certainly gone, what with Helm and Eaves coming back and Tatar and Nyquist needing spots. And hey, had it been my call, I would've played Tatar over Sammy and Tootoo.


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#32 Opie

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:47 PM

 

First of all, I think all of, like, one person has complained about Miller.

 

Second, how many people have said, "I don't like Sammy and/or Miller because they're not scoring like madmen and fighting!"? I mean, I know you're using hyperbole or whatever, but still. People don't like Sammy because he's Sammy. Borderline useless. You can almost feel him dragging down the fourth line and second PP unit.

 

Third, Tootoo. Tootoo is at his best when he's drawing penalties, and playing an energetic game with discipline and intelligence (i.e. not running around like a freight train off the rails). He's been doing that (like I said, he's had some really good shifts over these past few games). I think we could've really used his energy, his physicality, and his penalty-drawing abilities last night. He, Glendening and Miller had a pretty good thing going. Why kill it? I mean, I get the logic. Kindl goes to the first PP unit, and since we secretly have no faith in our other young defensemen, it's Sammy to the rescue! But man, we really needed a spark last night (we were incredibly slow, passive, and altogether uninspired for most of the game), and that makes sense, considering how many games we've played in how many nights. So you put in...an old, slow, mostly non-physical Sammy? Bad call, IMHO.

 

But maybe this is all sort of moot, since Tootoo is almost certainly gone, what with Helm and Eaves coming back and Tatar and Nyquist needing spots. And hey, had it been my call, I would've played Tatar over Sammy and Tootoo.

So you agree with the statement that Tootoo was "Great" recently?

 

Also were you feeling that way at the end of the 1st or  2nd period, or is this all revisionist history?


Edited by Opie, 20 October 2013 - 07:49 PM.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#33 Ally

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 12:23 AM

The really baffling thing is that anybody is confused by the decision to sit your number two , oft-injured, goaltender in favour of giving your number one, solid, net minder a game to to get back before the Sharks.
The Wings lost that game for a whole list of reasons and Babs and Jimmy are way down at the very bottom of it.

 
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#34 _SP_

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 02:15 AM

Howard stopped the penalty shot and gave up a breakaway goal. If I remember right, Ribiero scored a couple of goals after the puck had bounced around in the slot and he pretty much had open net to shoot at both times.  Loss wasn't on Howard. Howard didn't give up any weak goals.  Defensive zone faceoff losses are more to blame.

 

And Weiss is at 48% for the year. Ugh.  He is 20th in the league in faceoffs LOST during even strength-- and he's playing on the 2nd line.  He's statistically one of the worst 2nd line center right now for faceoffs.  Even worse? He is 5:9 on the powerplay. How can you set up in the offensive zone on the power play when your center gives away the puck almost two-thirds of the time??  With at least 90 faceoffs (which is a huge sampling), Weiss comes in at 58th place in faceoffs won (47.8%).  

 

 

Just some food for thought.  And, in case anyone was wondering, through 10% of the season, he is no better than 90th in the league for +/- for centers (I noticed nhl.com has some wingers listed as centers).  He has a whopping ZERO assists- the only player on the Red Wings roster that is playing on the top three lines and doesn't have an assist.  He has an awesome -3 +/- on the year.  The only players on the entire roster that have a worse +/- than him through 10% of the season are Joakim Andersson (-3 as well), Kyle Quincey (-6), and Brendan Smith (-7).  

 

 

And people thought I was crazy for saying this team needed to move Quincey's contract and bring in a real top-4 defenseman with the money they gave Weiss (Rob Scuderi-$3.375) and sign a stop-gap, physical center (Matt Cullen-$3.5M or Tyler Kennedy-$2.35M).  Neither guys are significantly bigger than Weiss, but they play a HELL of a lot tougher. You can't get even smaller on a finesse team and expect your center to win those physical match-ups. 

 

 

Food for thought.  Numbers for $5M/yr.  Crazy.


Edited by _SP_, 21 October 2013 - 02:32 AM.


#35 darkmanx

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:28 AM

 

And Weiss is at 48% for the year. Ugh.  He is 20th in the league in faceoffs LOST during even strength-- and he's playing on the 2nd line.  He's statistically one of the worst 2nd line center right now for faceoffs.  Even worse? He is 5:9 on the powerplay. How can you set up in the offensive zone on the power play when your center gives away the puck almost two-thirds of the time??  With at least 90 faceoffs (which is a huge sampling), Weiss comes in at 58th place in faceoffs won (47.8%).  

 

 

Just some food for thought.  And, in case anyone was wondering, through 10% of the season, he is no better than 90th in the league for +/- for centers (I noticed nhl.com has some wingers listed as centers).  He has a whopping ZERO assists- the only player on the Red Wings roster that is playing on the top three lines and doesn't have an assist.  He has an awesome -3 +/- on the year.  The only players on the entire roster that have a worse +/- than him through 10% of the season are Joakim Andersson (-3 as well), Kyle Quincey (-6), and Brendan Smith (-7).  

 

 

And people thought I was crazy for saying this team needed to move Quincey's contract and bring in a real top-4 defenseman with the money they gave Weiss (Rob Scuderi-$3.375) and sign a stop-gap, physical center (Matt Cullen-$3.5M or Tyler Kennedy-$2.35M).  Neither guys are significantly bigger than Weiss, but they play a HELL of a lot tougher. You can't get even smaller on a finesse team and expect your center to win those physical match-ups. 

 

 

Food for thought.  Numbers for $5M/yr.  Crazy.

 

Food for thought. 9 games played on a new team.



#36 GoWings!

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 10:23 AM

Howard was not good. But you gotta admit the defense didn't seem poised with Kronwall not out there. The whole team stunk it up after the 2 goal lead. I admit I don't always feel safe with Jimmy in there. I question whether he can bring us a Cup. We had a 3-1 series lead that we should've closed out against Chicago last year and I still felt uncomfortable with that lead. But the entire team did fall apart not just him. I think starting Howard was the right choice.

Edited by GoWings!, 21 October 2013 - 10:25 AM.


#37 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:55 AM

Gus was named TSN's Star of the Week. Crosby and Marleau behind him. He went 3-0 with 1.67 GAA and .953 S% and beat the Bruins, Jackets and the previously undefeated Avs. 

 

Just sayin'.


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It still would be nice to have that one guy. (Jordin Tootoo, wish granted)


#38 metalkorn

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 12:01 PM

Yeah I got a bit of a chuckle out of that. I'm sure if we let in as many goals as we did against phoenix (and yes the D is not at full strength tonight) Gustavsson might get another shot.

Or maybe the strategy should be for Jimmy to get "injured" 2 minutes before game time, worked last time.


Edited by metalkorn, 21 October 2013 - 12:02 PM.


#39 evilmrt

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 03:46 PM

Gus was named TSN's Star of the Week. Crosby and Marleau behind him. He went 3-0 with 1.67 GAA and .953 S% and beat the Bruins, Jackets and the previously undefeated Avs. 
 
Just sayin'.


Baffling why anyone would want to play him.

LOL
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#40 Mors

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 08:13 PM

Can we add separating Bertuzzi from Datsyuk to the list as an error in progress?







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