What's Killing Our Offense?

[joshy207 156]

Fair enough. But I don't think you can fully rate our drafting without looking at our current pool.

Like I said and conceded, we are in a bit of a dry spell in terms of guys who are ready to step in now (though Nyquist and Tatar are both very good pieces). But I do believe that will change in the coming years. At the very least, I don't think it's really fair to say we haven't been drafting well at forward. Given where we always draft (i.e. nowhere near the very top), I think we've done about as well as we conceivably could have done.

Ultimate point being: I don't feel our drafting is very much at fault re: our scoring woes. You're not going to get a Datsyuk or Zetterberg or even a Franzen every year if you're always making the playoffs. Now, a guy like Hossa - that could open up a discussion about our decisions re: free agents, trades. I do feel some of our signings (e.g. Cleary, Samuelsson) could definitely be linked to our scoring problems, if not directly (e.g. Sammy sucks), then indirectly (e.g. having Sammy means not having [insert better player]).

Yeah, I agree with this. They have solid prospects considering their draft position. Hopefully, a good number of them pan out... and I think they will...

[RyanBarnes! 293]

No speed through the neutral zone. This is killing our offense.

[pucktividi 472]

Too many set up guys and the lack of scoring wingers.No more Lids and Rafalski to run the PP, Homer to screen the goalie nor Brunner...

[martinezsvsu 240]

Several things:

1) Our passing ability has really gone down the tube since 2009

2) The inability to quickly turn a neutral zone turnover into an odd man rush the other way

3) Way to many shots from the perimeter

4) When in a good shooting position, the tendency is to make an extra pass or having to make an extra stick handle instead of releasing a good, hard and quick shot

5) Way to many players who do not put their shoulder down and go hard nose to the net and at worse can draw a penalty against a player who has been beaten

6) Way to much line juggling and several players who seemingly make it a 5 on 4 on the ice when they are out there

7) The lack of someone who is selfish and will shoot every chance they get (you could argue a pure goal scorer here)

8) The power play has become very stagnant and not enough moving parts...need to simplify it and just have someone bombing away from the middle on the back end

9) Way to many times do we give the puck away to easily in the D zone causing more energy to be spent trying to retrieve the puck

10) Lack of a killer instinct when the opponent has had most of its life taken out of them...one example was the game against Chicago last season when they had the lead and then took a boneheaded penalty with 2 mins to go and lost in a shootout 2-1

Rant over

this guy killed it.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

8) The power play has become very stagnant and not enough moving parts...need to simplify it and just have someone bombing away from the middle on the back end

9) Way to many times do we give the puck away to easily in the D zone causing more energy to be spent trying to retrieve the puck

10) Lack of a killer instinct when the opponent has had most of its life taken out of them...one example was the game against Chicago last season when they had the lead and then took a boneheaded penalty with 2 mins to go and lost in a shootout 2-1

11) Dan Cleary

Fixed that for ya.

We've drafted really well at forward, IMHO. Names:

Athanasiou

Ferraro

Frk

Glendening

Jarnkrok

Jurco

Mantha

Nastasiuk

Nyquist

Pulkkinen

Sheahan

Tatar

Drafting good is fine. But if when said prospect is ready for the NHL you have to hope your coach and GM will give them there shot instead of re-signing old washed up players to take there spot on the roster. Perfect example is Nyquist and Tatar right now. Right now I have no confidence Babs or Holland will play the young hungry kids when they are ready. Instead we will get more Cleary and Samuelssons.

Edited October 25, 2013 by GoalieManPat

[55fan 5,133]

Many good, strong posts here, and I agree with pretty much everything. I'd like to add two things: We need to have the puck in our end more (fewer turnovers) and we need to Shoot The Puck .

[Nev 1,085]

Too many guys on the roster who rely on others to make them creative. Too many complimentary pieces. Too many depth players too high up the depth chart.

Bertuzzi, Miller, Eaves. Tootoo, Cleary, Samuelsson. Even Andersson and Abdelkader.

Take out 3 of the first 6. Add Helm, Nyquist and Tatar. Suddenly we're a different team. Not genuine-Stanley-Cup-threat different, but certainly better.

Truth is, age, free agency, and the draft have been working against us for 10 years and its finally caught up. Now we're too good to draft star replacements, but not good enough to be genuine contenders.

[ben_usmc 253]

Miller is good with proper linemates and in the proper context, as is Abdelkader. Their thus-far poor performance is not Holland's fault, nor is that of Stephen Weiss. Cleary is atrocious, though I don't think anyone could have anticipated him being this bad. Samuelsson's contract is not a problem right now, but his presence on the roster is.

That said, this team has the tools it needs to win.

buls***, a lot of us did

Edited October 25, 2013 by ben_usmc

[luvmnger 125]

does florida want sammy back?

sammy, tootoo, emmerton, and bag of crazy bread for fleishmann.

please?

cap= good

roster=good

speed=good

scoring=good

holland= no way

enough said.

[Guest Crymson]

does florida want sammy back?

sammy, tootoo, emmerton, and bag of crazy bread for fleishmann.

please?

cap= good

roster=good

speed=good

scoring=good

holland= no way

enough said.

I don't understand the need for this obnoxious, inane exaggeration. There is not the faintest chance that Holland would turn down such a trade, just as there is precisely no possibility that the Panthers would agree to it.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Crymson

[Guest DeGraa55]

No identity is a problem. We have a defensive group that could win a Stanley cup. I'm not a kronwall is a number 1 fan but as a whole it could win a cup in a dump and chase style. Where our forwards are more built for puck possession( not that great at it any more either).

Also now people understand why some of us are so angry. We saw this crap coming with Sammyand cleary and what not. Addiction by subtraction makes us better. Signing a real top 6 winger makes a kwgutmate threat. But again why do something that makes sense?

[Spongewingredpants 75]

for me one thing sums it up

we let Hossa go and we are still stuck with guys like cleary and we resigned Sammy last year.

I won't bring up the Brunner f***-up but the idea that we have Weiss at 2 x the money for the next 5 years gives me ulcers

Seriously....

edit: ok, that is two things

Edited October 25, 2013 by Spongewingredpants

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

for me one thing sums it up

we let Hossa go and we are still stuck with guys like cleary and we resigned Sammy last year.

I won't bring up the Brunner f***-up but the idea that we have Weiss at 2 x the money for the next 5 years gives me ulcers

Seriously....

edit: ok, that is two things

People need to get passed the hossa thing, it was 5 years ago. Agreed with the rest though. Franzen needs to step up, as does Weiss, we need goose up from gr, and helm back, and we will see a completely different team.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

This is what is concerning to me, if we keep that pace we will be in the bottom in a matter of games.

[St. Michael (the Red Wing) 422]

I remember the beginning of last season and seems to be happening again this season. No bottom 6 scoring. Once that gets figured out things will be better I hope...

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Lines at practice today:

Tatar-Zetterberg-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Alfredsson

Cleary-Weiss-Abdelkader

Miller-Andersson-Tootoo

Hopefully it provides a spark.

[VM1138 1,921]

Maybe Babcock is just too focuses on defense. Lidstrom leaving might have really rattled his plans. Very little emphasis seems to have been placed on bottom six scoring.

Lines at practice today:

Tatar-Zetterberg-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Alfredsson

Cleary-Weiss-Abdelkader

Miller-Andersson-Tootoo

Hopefully it provides a spark.

I like those lines. We unfortunately can't keep Datsyuk and Z together right now.

[amato 3,210]

Lines at practice today:

Tatar-Zetterberg-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Alfredsson

Cleary-Weiss-Abdelkader

Miller-Andersson-Tootoo

Hopefully it provides a spark.

didn't see this before posting the same thing in the lines thread ha whoops.

power play 1 stays the same.

power play 2:

franzen-weiss-tatar

kindl-dekeyser

love that tatar is getting the spot he deserves.. now he just has to perform.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Lines at practice today:

Tatar-Zetterberg-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Alfredsson

Cleary-Weiss-Abdelkader

Miller-Andersson-Tootoo

Hopefully it provides a spark.

Omg that first line has the makings to be a very very dominant line, and the second line isn't far behind in that regard. I expect very good things from those lines.

[Dabura 12,206]

I like those lines. I'm happy and excited for Tatar. Hopefully he takes full advantage of this situation.

[Guest Crymson]

Lines at practice today:

Tatar-Zetterberg-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Alfredsson

Cleary-Weiss-Abdelkader

Miller-Andersson-Tootoo

Hopefully it provides a spark.

It's a good start, but I am baffled as to why Dan Cleary is still in the lineup at all. Sad as it is to say, even Samuelsson would be better.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Crymson

[Guest mjtm77]

It's a good start, but I am baffled as to why Dan Cleary is still in the lineup at all. Sad as it is to say, even Samuelsson would be better.

The third line with clearly is so bad. I think we are gunna be wishing z and d were together to score.

God dammit Weiss not being able to center a second line!

[Nev 1,085]

It's a good start, but I am baffled as to why Dan Cleary is still in the lineup at all. Sad as it is to say, even Samuelsson would be better.

[Guest Crymson]

The third line with clearly is so bad. I think we are gunna be wishing z and d were together to score.

God dammit Weiss not being able to center a second line!

That 3rd line would be infinitely better with Eaves, Helm, or Nyquist in place of Cleary.

[Richdg 267]

Some of this was to be expected. Like I asked earlier, when was the last time we developed a star forward? But to answer that, what is the definition of "star"? A 40 point per year or 50 point per year guy is not a star to me. I look at "stars" as 60+ point guys with 30+ goals per year. We haven't developed one of those in 15 years now. I don't see one coming soon either. maybe mantha (I believe he will be) but he is also 2+ years away from making the Wings and will need a season or 2 to blossom then.

So if we haven't been developing star players internally, have we been trading for them or signing them as UFA's? no. All of which brings us back to where we are today. yes all GM's make mistakes when deciding which players to keep vs let walk. Franzen over Hossa was a big one. yes it was 5 years ago and there has been ample time to make up for that error. yes we missed on parise and in another year or 2 we will be glad we did. maybe. fact is star players make star player money. We don't seem to be willing to spend it. last year was a good example of this. We signed 3 role players for 6 million per year. How has that worked out? Sammy-wish he was gone, brunner-bailed on us after 1 season, and tootoo-likeable guy but doesn't offer much. This past off season we could have traded for a proven 30+ goal scorer-Ryan, but we decided not to. even though he is young, RHed, signed for another year after this one and costs less per year than Cleary, Alfie, Tatar, and Nyquist combined. Not to mention he is out scoring all 4 this year. next summer we have a ton of money coming off the cap. anyone care to make a wager on if we sign Vanek or someone like that? it will cost 8 million per year to do it, so I bet we pass.

Now some on here are hoping and begging for tatar, nyquist, and helm to get back, and expect that to fix our offense. Sorry but it will not. tatar and nyquist are more of the same. Speedy guys yes. Puck movers yes. but these are not guys that are going to drive through the Dman and burry the puck in the net on a regular basis. it will be more of the same. Skate around and shoot the puck from 30+ feet away. maybe I should write 10 meters.... helm is not an offensive player. Awesome defensive forward yes, but he is not a goal scorer. None of these three are going to stand in the crease or block out the G and pick up the rebounds, which is a big part of our problem. yes we were spoiled having Homer all of those years. One of the best front of the net guys ever. No one guy is going to do what he did. But that doesn't mean we don't try to find those guys. The issue is, most of the guys that do that also drop the gloves from time to time, and that is something that the brain trust refuses to acquire.