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What's Killing Our Offense?


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#21 Euro_Twins

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:55 PM

I expected a little more offense from Smith and Kindl, who both have combined for 2 points in 18 games. Or I should say Kindl has both points, Smith has zero. Smith has looked better recently with his scoring chances though, I'll admit.


He's been a -5 since returning to the lineup, he is currently a -9. I know +/- isn't everything but that is quite a terrible number to accumulate in 7 games. I think smith is a weak link as is Sammy and Cleary, bring up nyquist ouellet, and a healthy helm and this team changes entirely

#22 joshy207

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:59 PM

We've drafted really well at forward, IMHO. Names:

 

Athanasiou

Ferraro

Frk

Glendening

Jarnkrok

Jurco

Mantha

Nastasiuk

Nyquist

Pulkkinen

Sheahan

Tatar

 

That's an extraordinarily good group, considering we haven't picked in the top twenty since, what, Marty Lapointe? And our D group is nothing to sneeze at.

 

All of which is to say: I believe drafting is one thing we've been getting very right.

 

True, there's been a bit of a dry spell lately, but in the coming years that will change. My only worry is, of course, the clock that's ticking on Z and D's careers. I want as many of our young guys to learn as much as they can from those two.

 

All enticing prospects, yes, but for now they are just prospects.  We can grade the drafting in 5 or so years after we see how many of these guys make the NHL.



#23 Dabura

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:22 PM

Fair enough. But I don't think you can fully rate our drafting without looking at our current pool.

 

Like I said and conceded, we are in a bit of a dry spell in terms of guys who are ready to step in now (though Nyquist and Tatar are both very good pieces). But I do believe that will change in the coming years. At the very least, I don't think it's really fair to say we haven't been drafting well at forward. Given where we always draft (i.e. nowhere near the very top), I think we've done about as well as we conceivably could have done.

 

Ultimate point being: I don't feel our drafting is very much at fault re: our scoring woes. You're not going to get a Datsyuk or Zetterberg or even a Franzen every year if you're always making the playoffs. Now, a guy like Hossa - that could open up a discussion about our decisions re: free agents, trades. I do feel some of our signings (e.g. Cleary, Samuelsson) could definitely be linked to our scoring problems, if not directly (e.g. Sammy sucks), then indirectly (e.g. having Sammy means not having [insert better player]).


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#24 The Greek

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:33 PM


None of those guys are here yet, thus why we are in the spot we are. The chances that all of them turn out is very small. maybe 1 or 2 will turn out into a star, but that is about it. Most will never be anything more than role players and career AHL types.

I agree. It seems we have been doing a far better job of drafting and developing defensemen than forwards.

Edited by The Greek, 24 October 2013 - 09:33 PM.


#25 esteef

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:34 PM

We don't have 2 Tatars.

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#26 joshy207

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:47 PM

Fair enough. But I don't think you can fully rate our drafting without looking at our current pool.

 

Like I said and conceded, we are in a bit of a dry spell in terms of guys who are ready to step in now (though Nyquist and Tatar are both very good pieces). But I do believe that will change in the coming years. At the very least, I don't think it's really fair to say we haven't been drafting well at forward. Given where we always draft (i.e. nowhere near the very top), I think we've done about as well as we conceivably could have done.

 

Ultimate point being: I don't feel our drafting is very much at fault re: our scoring woes. You're not going to get a Datsyuk or Zetterberg or even a Franzen every year if you're always making the playoffs. Now, a guy like Hossa - that could open up a discussion about our decisions re: free agents, trades. I do feel some of our signings (e.g. Cleary, Samuelsson) could definitely be linked to our scoring problems, if not directly (e.g. Sammy sucks), then indirectly (e.g. having Sammy means not having [insert better player]).

 

Yeah, I agree with this.  They have solid prospects considering their draft position.  Hopefully, a good number of them pan out... and I think they will...



#27 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:07 PM

No speed through the neutral zone. This is killing our offense.
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#28 pucktividi

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:29 PM

Too many set up guys and the lack of scoring wingers.No more Lids and Rafalski to run the PP, Homer to screen the goalie nor Brunner...



#29 martinezsvsu

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:47 PM

Several things:

1) Our passing ability has really gone down the tube since 2009
2) The inability to quickly turn a neutral zone turnover into an odd man rush the other way
3) Way to many shots from the perimeter
4) When in a good shooting position, the tendency is to make an extra pass or having to make an extra stick handle instead of releasing a good, hard and quick shot
5) Way to many players who do not put their shoulder down and go hard nose to the net and at worse can draw a penalty against a player who has been beaten
6) Way to much line juggling and several players who seemingly make it a 5 on 4 on the ice when they are out there
7) The lack of someone who is selfish and will shoot every chance they get (you could argue a pure goal scorer here)
8) The power play has become very stagnant and not enough moving parts...need to simplify it and just have someone bombing away from the middle on the back end
9) Way to many times do we give the puck away to easily in the D zone causing more energy to be spent trying to retrieve the puck
10) Lack of a killer instinct when the opponent has had most of its life taken out of them...one example was the game against Chicago last season when they had the lead and then took a boneheaded penalty with 2 mins to go and lost in a shootout 2-1

Rant over

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#30 GoalieManPat

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:57 PM

8) The power play has become very stagnant and not enough moving parts...need to simplify it and just have someone bombing away from the middle on the back end
9) Way to many times do we give the puck away to easily in the D zone causing more energy to be spent trying to retrieve the puck
10) Lack of a killer instinct when the opponent has had most of its life taken out of them...one example was the game against Chicago last season when they had the lead and then took a boneheaded penalty with 2 mins to go and lost in a shootout 2-1
11) Dan Cleary
 

Fixed that for ya.

 

We've drafted really well at forward, IMHO. Names:

 

Athanasiou

Ferraro

Frk

Glendening

Jarnkrok

Jurco

Mantha

Nastasiuk

Nyquist

Pulkkinen

Sheahan

Tatar

Drafting good is fine. But if when said prospect is ready for the NHL you have to hope your coach and GM will give them there shot instead of re-signing old washed up players to take there spot on the roster. Perfect example is Nyquist and Tatar right now. Right now I have no confidence Babs or Holland will play the young hungry kids when they are ready. Instead we will get more Cleary and Samuelssons.


Edited by GoalieManPat, 24 October 2013 - 11:58 PM.


#31 55fan

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:32 AM

Many good, strong posts here, and I agree with pretty much everything.  I'd like to add two things:  We need to have the puck in our end more (fewer turnovers) and we need to Shoot The Puck ™.



#32 Nev

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:54 AM

Too many guys on the roster who rely on others to make them creative.  Too  many complimentary pieces.  Too many depth players too high up the depth chart.

 

Bertuzzi, Miller, Eaves. Tootoo, Cleary, Samuelsson.  Even Andersson and Abdelkader.

 

Take out 3 of the first 6.  Add Helm, Nyquist and Tatar.  Suddenly we're a different team.  Not genuine-Stanley-Cup-threat different, but certainly better.

 

Truth is, age, free agency, and the draft have been working against us for 10 years and its finally caught up.  Now we're too good to draft star replacements, but not good enough to be genuine contenders.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#33 ben_usmc

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:24 AM

 

Miller is good with proper linemates and in the proper context, as is Abdelkader. Their thus-far poor performance is not Holland's fault, nor is that of Stephen Weiss. Cleary is atrocious, though I don't think anyone could have anticipated him being this bad. Samuelsson's contract is not a problem right now, but his presence on the roster is.

 

That said, this team has the tools it needs to win.

buls***, a lot of us did


Edited by ben_usmc, 25 October 2013 - 01:25 AM.

There's no I in team, but there's a U in c***, so don't be little jealous c***s

#34 luvmnger

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:12 AM

does florida want sammy back?

 

sammy, tootoo, emmerton, and bag of crazy bread for fleishmann.

 

please?

 

cap= good

roster=good

speed=good

scoring=good

holland= no way

 

enough said.


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#35 Crymson

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:59 AM

does florida want sammy back?

 

sammy, tootoo, emmerton, and bag of crazy bread for fleishmann.

 

please?

 

cap= good

roster=good

speed=good

scoring=good

holland= no way

 

enough said.

 

I don't understand the need for this obnoxious, inane exaggeration. There is not the faintest chance that Holland would turn down such a trade, just as there is precisely no possibility that the Panthers would agree to it.


Edited by Crymson, 25 October 2013 - 03:00 AM.


#36 DeGraa55

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:33 AM

No identity is a problem. We have a defensive group that could win a Stanley cup. I'm not a kronwall is a number 1 fan but as a whole it could win a cup in a dump and chase style. Where our forwards are more built for puck possession( not that great at it any more either).


Also now people understand why some of us are so angry. We saw this crap coming with Sammyand cleary and what not. Addiction by subtraction makes us better. Signing a real top 6 winger makes a kwgutmate threat. But again why do something that makes sense?

#37 Spongewingredpants

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 06:41 AM

for me one thing sums it up

 

we let Hossa go and we are still stuck with guys like cleary and we resigned Sammy last year.

 

I won't bring up the Brunner f***-up but the idea that we have Weiss at 2 x the money for the next 5 years gives me ulcers

 

Seriously....

 

edit: ok, that is two things


Edited by Spongewingredpants, 25 October 2013 - 06:42 AM.

My wish: A healthy roster

 

 


#38 F.Michael

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:32 AM

 

Maybe we aren't giving some of our higher end talent any chances to prove themselves. Instead we have Cleary and Samuelson showing why exactly they shouldn't have been signed.

Agreed.

 

Not giving guys like Nyquist, and Tartar a chance at top 6 minutes is silly.



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#39 Euro_Twins

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 08:36 AM

for me one thing sums it up
 
we let Hossa go and we are still stuck with guys like cleary and we resigned Sammy last year.
 
I won't bring up the Brunner f***-up but the idea that we have Weiss at 2 x the money for the next 5 years gives me ulcers
 
Seriously....
 
edit: ok, that is two things


People need to get passed the hossa thing, it was 5 years ago. Agreed with the rest though. Franzen needs to step up, as does Weiss, we need goose up from gr, and helm back, and we will see a completely different team.

#40 darkmanx

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 09:42 AM

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This is what is concerning to me, if we keep that pace we will be in the bottom in a matter of games.







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