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What's Killing Our Offense?


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#41 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 09:45 AM

I remember the beginning of last season and seems to be happening again this season. No bottom 6 scoring. Once that gets figured out things will be better I hope...



#42 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:22 AM

Lines at practice today:

 

Tatar-Zetterberg-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Alfredsson

Cleary-Weiss-Abdelkader

Miller-Andersson-Tootoo

 

Hopefully it provides a spark.


#NOMOREKINDL


#43 VM1138

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:28 AM

Maybe Babcock is just too focuses on defense. Lidstrom leaving might have really rattled his plans. Very little emphasis seems to have been placed on bottom six scoring.

Lines at practice today:
 
Tatar-Zetterberg-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Alfredsson
Cleary-Weiss-Abdelkader
Miller-Andersson-Tootoo
 
Hopefully it provides a spark.


I like those lines. We unfortunately can't keep Datsyuk and Z together right now.
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#44 amato

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:39 AM

Lines at practice today:

 

Tatar-Zetterberg-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Alfredsson

Cleary-Weiss-Abdelkader

Miller-Andersson-Tootoo

 

Hopefully it provides a spark.

 

didn't see this before posting the same thing in the lines thread ha whoops.

 

power play 1 stays the same.

power play 2:

 

franzen-weiss-tatar

kindl-dekeyser

 

 

love that tatar is getting the spot he deserves.. now he just has to perform.


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          1. When your moves are so amazing and beyond reason, the only way to describe them is "datsyukian."


#45 Euro_Twins

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:06 AM

Lines at practice today:
 
Tatar-Zetterberg-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Alfredsson
Cleary-Weiss-Abdelkader
Miller-Andersson-Tootoo
 
Hopefully it provides a spark.


Omg that first line has the makings to be a very very dominant line, and the second line isn't far behind in that regard. I expect very good things from those lines.

#46 Dabura

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:11 AM

I like those lines. I'm happy and excited for Tatar. Hopefully he takes full advantage of this situation.


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#47 Crymson

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:32 AM

Lines at practice today:

 

Tatar-Zetterberg-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Alfredsson

Cleary-Weiss-Abdelkader

Miller-Andersson-Tootoo

 

Hopefully it provides a spark.

 

It's a good start, but I am baffled as to why Dan Cleary is still in the lineup at all. Sad as it is to say, even Samuelsson would be better.


Edited by Crymson, 25 October 2013 - 11:33 AM.


#48 mjtm77

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:40 AM

 
It's a good start, but I am baffled as to why Dan Cleary is still in the lineup at all. Sad as it is to say, even Samuelsson would be better.


The third line with clearly is so bad. I think we are gunna be wishing z and d were together to score.

God dammit Weiss not being able to center a second line!
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#49 Nev

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:21 PM

 

It's a good start, but I am baffled as to why Dan Cleary is still in the lineup at all. Sad as it is to say, even Samuelsson would be better.

 

 

take-that-back-now.jpg


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#50 Crymson

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:00 PM

The third line with clearly is so bad. I think we are gunna be wishing z and d were together to score.

God dammit Weiss not being able to center a second line!

 

 

 

That 3rd line would be infinitely better with Eaves, Helm, or Nyquist in place of Cleary.



#51 Richdg

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:55 PM

Some of this was to be expected. Like I asked earlier, when was the last time we developed a star forward? But to answer that, what is the definition of "star"? A 40 point per year or 50 point per year guy is not a star to me. I look at "stars" as 60+ point guys with 30+ goals per year. We haven't developed one of those in 15 years now. I don't see one coming soon either. maybe mantha (I believe he will be) but he is also 2+ years away from making the Wings and will need a season or 2 to blossom then.

So if we haven't been developing star players internally, have we been trading for them or signing them as UFA's? no. All of which brings us back to where we are today. yes all GM's make mistakes when deciding which players to keep vs let walk. Franzen over Hossa was a big one. yes it was 5 years ago and there has been ample time to make up for that error. yes we missed on parise and in another year or 2 we will be glad we did. maybe. fact is star players make star player money. We don't seem to be willing to spend it. last year was a good example of this. We signed 3 role players for 6 million per year. How has that worked out? Sammy-wish he was gone, brunner-bailed on us after 1 season, and tootoo-likeable guy but doesn't offer much. This past off season we could have traded for a proven 30+ goal scorer-Ryan, but we decided not to. even though he is young, RHed, signed for another year after this one and costs less per year than Cleary, Alfie, Tatar, and Nyquist combined. Not to mention he is out scoring all 4 this year. next summer we have a ton of money coming off the cap. anyone care to make a wager on if we sign Vanek or someone like that? it will cost 8 million per year to do it, so I bet we pass.

Now some on here are hoping and begging for tatar, nyquist, and helm to get back, and expect that to fix our offense. Sorry but it will not. tatar and nyquist are more of the same. Speedy guys yes. Puck movers yes. but these are not guys that are going to drive through the Dman and burry the puck in the net on a regular basis. it will be more of the same. Skate around and shoot the puck from 30+ feet away. maybe I should write 10 meters.... helm is not an offensive player. Awesome defensive forward yes, but he is not a goal scorer. None of these three are going to stand in the crease or block out the G and pick up the rebounds, which is a big part of our problem. yes we were spoiled having Homer all of those years. One of the best front of the net guys ever. No one guy is going to do what he did. But that doesn't mean we don't try to find those guys. The issue is, most of the guys that do that also drop the gloves from time to time, and that is something that the brain trust refuses to acquire.



#52 Dabura

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:58 PM

The third line looks pretty good, for a checking line (as opposed to a third scoring line). And, yeah, it'd probably be better with pretty much anyone else in Cleary's place. Except Sammy.


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#53 Dabura

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:06 PM

Interesting


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#54 sleepwalker

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:20 PM

I'd say the team so far this year seems to suffer from a lack of synergy.



#55 Jesusberg

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:28 PM

God, I hope Tatar just comes in and snipes it up.



#56 Euro_Twins

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:30 PM

Some of this was to be expected. Like I asked earlier, when was the last time we developed a star forward? But to answer that, what is the definition of "star"? A 40 point per year or 50 point per year guy is not a star to me. I look at "stars" as 60+ point guys with 30+ goals per year. We haven't developed one of those in 15 years now. I don't see one coming soon either. maybe mantha (I believe he will be) but he is also 2+ years away from making the Wings and will need a season or 2 to blossom then.
So if we haven't been developing star players internally, have we been trading for them or signing them as UFA's? no. All of which brings us back to where we are today. yes all GM's make mistakes when deciding which players to keep vs let walk. Franzen over Hossa was a big one. yes it was 5 years ago and there has been ample time to make up for that error. yes we missed on parise and in another year or 2 we will be glad we did. maybe. fact is star players make star player money. We don't seem to be willing to spend it. last year was a good example of this. We signed 3 role players for 6 million per year. How has that worked out? Sammy-wish he was gone, brunner-bailed on us after 1 season, and tootoo-likeable guy but doesn't offer much. This past off season we could have traded for a proven 30+ goal scorer-Ryan, but we decided not to. even though he is young, RHed, signed for another year after this one and costs less per year than Cleary, Alfie, Tatar, and Nyquist combined. Not to mention he is out scoring all 4 this year. next summer we have a ton of money coming off the cap. anyone care to make a wager on if we sign Vanek or someone like that? it will cost 8 million per year to do it, so I bet we pass.
Now some on here are hoping and begging for tatar, nyquist, and helm to get back, and expect that to fix our offense. Sorry but it will not. tatar and nyquist are more of the same. Speedy guys yes. Puck movers yes. but these are not guys that are going to drive through the Dman and burry the puck in the net on a regular basis. it will be more of the same. Skate around and shoot the puck from 30+ feet away. maybe I should write 10 meters.... helm is not an offensive player. Awesome defensive forward yes, but he is not a goal scorer. None of these three are going to stand in the crease or block out the G and pick up the rebounds, which is a big part of our problem. yes we were spoiled having Homer all of those years. One of the best front of the net guys ever. No one guy is going to do what he did. But that doesn't mean we don't try to find those guys. The issue is, most of the guys that do that also drop the gloves from time to time, and that is something that the brain trust refuses to acquire.

You do know we developed Datsyuk and z right?

Also Tatar does drive the net, and he is gritty. Him and goose are very different

Edited by Euro_Twins, 25 October 2013 - 04:33 PM.


#57 Son of a Wing

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:09 PM

Feels like the season is just starting now...

 

10 games of weeding out some vets and getting new players adjusted to the system.  2 Goalies good to go.  Our lineup is starting to resemble what it should be. All we need is Nyquist up.

 

No excuses now.


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#58 The Greek

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:49 PM

You do know we developed Datsyuk and z right?

Also Tatar does drive the net, and he is gritty. Him and goose are very different


Datsyuk and zetterberg were drafted in '98 and '99 respectively, roughly fifteen years ago. It isn't a secret that we have had trouble drafting/developing top 6 forwards. We do have some promising guys in the pipeline, but potential is no guarantee of success.

#59 kipwinger

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:59 PM

Babcock is positively frustrating at times.  If you look at my post on the first page of this thread you'll see that I argued for a top six of...

 

Alfie-Pav-Bert

Zetterberg-Weiss-Franzen

 

And he goes with...

 

Alfie-Pav-Bert

Tatar-Zetterberg-Franzen

 

Close but no cigar.  Zetterberg is the only winger scoring goals.  So obviously he needs to be moved.  Also, Weiss is penciled in as the second line center.  That's where he wants to play, that's where the team wants him to play, and that's where he should play.  Yet he doesn't.  Why not put him between two capable wingers, let him get in on some scoring while learning the system with veterans who can make plays and help ease his transition?  Instead they expect him to gain confidence while both trying to learn a new system (the first of his career) and carry the entire offensive load on a line with two hammer hands wingers. 

 

F*ck I hate Babs' line combinations.


Edited by kipwinger, 25 October 2013 - 06:02 PM.

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#60 ben_usmc

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 06:11 PM

Lines at practice today:

 

Tatar-Zetterberg-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Alfredsson

Cleary-Weiss-Abdelkader

Miller-Andersson-Tootoo

 

Hopefully it provides a spark.

LOL that 3rd line looks terrible.


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