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#101 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:25 AM

I know this is of no use to us now, or even this season. but jurcos building some chemistry with nyquist.
Which could be an awesome thing in the long haul.

#102 frankgrimes

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 08:16 AM

I know this is of no use to us now, or even this season. but jurcos building some chemistry with nyquist.
Which could be an awesome thing in the long haul.

 

Sure, in 10 years it will be awesome to finally see these two as regulars with the Detroit Red Wings *g*


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#103 derblaueClaus

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 09:01 AM

But only after they had succsessfull careers in Ottawa, Dallas, Colorado, you name it. :P

 

But seriously, what would I do ?

 

One wise countrayman of yours once said you must use the tools you have. So play this season out and see how far we can get with this rooster.  Maybe try to shop Totoo and Miller for some late round picks. There are unfortunatley no other options this season. But bear in mind that the season is still young and there is plenty of time for the team to get adjusted. We have a lot of young guys, players who come from a long-term injruy (Weiss, Sammy) and new players who have to get accustomed to our system. And for that they are doing pretty good. In my opinion this rooster has some potential and isn't as bad as it seems right now. For example  a third line consiting of Franzen - Helm - Tatar sounds great. 

 

After the season take a look how older guys like Alfie, Sammy, Bert, Cleary have performend, get rid of them or sign some again for shorterm contracts. Bringing up Nyquist is mandatory. If possible resign Gustavsson, I would also use our buyout for Franzen and offer him a contract that wouldn't affect our cap hit after he resigns. Then try to land one of the avaible free agency stars like Phaneuf or Vanek. If we then still have holes in our rooster fill them up with our guys from Grand Rapids.


Edited by derblaueClaus, 17 November 2013 - 09:02 AM.

"I'd have my **** out if I scored four goals. Id have my **** out, stroking it." - "Jumbo" Joe Thornton

 

 

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#104 Dabura

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:48 AM

So play this season out and see how far we can get with this rooster.

 

Stroking it?


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#105 Nev

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:01 AM

Since he's playing himself further and further down the depth chart I'd give Dan Cleary free surgery on his knees/back/groins such that he doesn't need a wheelchair by the time he's 40 and LTIR him for the rest of the season.

 

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi

Franzen - Weiss - Tatar

Nyquist - Helm - Alfredsson

Miller - Anderson - Abdelkader

 

Then use our glut of prospects to trade for a veteran defenceman to stabilise the bottom 3.  We've got so many prospects right now, we can even afford to throw in a 2nd or a 3rd to get someone to take Quincey off our hands.

 

Kronwall - Ericsson

Dekeyser - Vet

Kindl - Actually_we_might_need_to_trade_for_two_veteran_defencemen


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#106 Euro_Twins

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:59 AM

 

Sure, in 10 years it will be awesome to finally see these two as regulars with the Detroit Red Wings *g*

 

you do mean the Detroit Cleary's right?



#107 Playmaker

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 12:01 PM

This is what makes this situation so frustrating is because the reality is, there is very little that Holland can do to get himself out of the mess he created.

 

Trading prospects for a veteran defenseman for does us no good because of the cap.  We would add salary without really losing any. 

 

No team will give us picks for Tootoo or Miller.  We just offered them up for free (Well, it was Eaves, who is Miller with a more attractive contract situation and less gray hair) and every team passed.

 

Cleary, Bertuzzi and Samuelsson have no trade clauses.  In addition, 19 of the 30 NHL teams are at or near the cap for this year.  So, not many trading partners.  Most teams are looking to shed salary.

 

Probably stuck with Franzen for the long haul due to the contract.  No buyouts during the season.  I don't see them buying him out.

 

Add to that, Holland has never made blockbuster trades in any way, so it looks like what you see, is what you get.  The only hope is a season ending injury to one or two of the dead weights, but its more likely we will lose someone like Helm or DeKeyser.



#108 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 12:47 PM

I know this is of no use to us now, or even this season. but jurcos building some chemistry with nyquist.
Which could be an awesome thing in the long haul.

 

Very true.  Generally speaking though, Nyquist is one of those players with which it isn't hard to develop chemistry if you're his linemate.  He's willing to adjust himself as humanly possible so that everybody can make a good impact.  When he plays with lesser skilled players, he knows he'll have to control the puck a lot.  When he plays with guys like Jurco he knows he can cycle and move around more.  At the college and AHL level he's shown to be very aware of the strengths of his linemates. 



#109 Nev

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 01:12 PM



 

 

This is what makes this situation so frustrating is because the reality is, there is very little that Holland can do to get himself out of the mess he created.

 

Trading prospects for a veteran defenseman for does us no good because of the cap.  We would add salary without really losing any. 

 

No team will give us picks for Tootoo or Miller.  We just offered them up for free (Well, it was Eaves, who is Miller with a more attractive contract situation and less gray hair) and every team passed.

 

That's why the cap dead-weight needs to part of a package, not the centre-piece.  Just as an example:  Buffalo are in full on tank mode, and they have a veteran PMD in Erhoff, who for arguments sake is available for trade.  His cap hit is $4.0M, so we need to clear that or more off our salary.  Buffalo have ~$7M in cap room, so they can afford to take some salary off us.  So we trade say Smith, Pulkinnen and Sheahan for Erhoff.  To make it cap compliant we add pending UFA Quincey.

 

Not saying we should do that, or that Buffalo would agree, but that's the kind of thing we need to be doing. 

 

 

 

  So, not many trading partners.  Most teams are looking to shed salary.

 

Agree, but there are enough bottom feeders this season - Buff, Edm, Philly etc - who are going to be looking to shed vets for prospects and picks

 

 

 

 

Add to that, Holland has never made blockbuster trades in any way,

 

Um, Hasek?  And not "blockbusters" but Stuart, Schneider, Bertuzzi, Lang...


Edited by Nev, 17 November 2013 - 01:22 PM.

"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#110 Playmaker

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 01:29 PM

I don't

 

 


 

 

 

That's why the cap dead-weight needs to part of a package, not the centre-piece.  Just as an example:  Buffalo are in full on tank mode, and they have a veteran PMD in Erhoff, who for arguments sake is available for trade.  His cap hit is $4.0M, so we need to clear that or more off our salary.  Buffalo have ~$7M in cap room, so they can afford to take some salary off us.  So we trade say Smith, Pulkinnen and Sheahan for Erhoff.  To make it cap compliant we add pending UFA Quincey.

 

Not saying we should do that, or that Buffalo would agree, but that's the kind of thing we need to be doing. 

 

 

 

 

Agree, but there are enough bottom feeders this season - Buff, Edm, Philly etc - who are going to be looking to shed vets for prospects and picks

 

 

 

 

 

Um, Hasek?  And not "blockbusters" but Stuart, Schneider, Bertuzzi, Lang...

 

I don't really see parting with an aging, declining Slava Kozlov for Hasek 11 years ago to be a blockbuster, but ok.  It was unusual for Holland.  The other trades are more typical of Holland; older player for a draft pick.  He doesn't often part with current roster players.  He tends to favor free agents, the older the better, and former Wing...Jackpot! 



#111 kipwinger

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 02:19 PM

I would lose my s*** if we could find a way to get Nyquist AND Jurco into the lineup.

 

Z-Dats-Bert

Alfie-Weiss-Abby

Franzen-Helm-Tats

Nyquist-Andersson-Juro

 

Talk about speed and puck possession.  Alas!


Edited by kipwinger, 17 November 2013 - 02:19 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#112 Nev

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 02:21 PM

Declining Kozlov?  He had four 70 point seasons after he left Detroit, just two whilst he was a Wing.

 

But whatever, I think trading for arguably the greatest goaltender of all time classes as blockbuster.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#113 Dabura

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 02:31 PM

Henrik Zetterberg  Pavel Datsyuk  Todd Bertuzzi

Johan Franzen  Stephen Weiss  Tomas Tatar

Gustav Nyquist  Darren Helm  Zack Kassian

Drew Miller  Steve Ott  Justin Abdelkader

 

Niklas Kronwall   Danny DeKeyser

Jonathan Ericsson  Daniel Alfredsson

Jakub Kindl  Brian Lashoff

 

Jimmy Howard

Jonas Gustavsson


Declining Kozlov?  He had four 70 point seasons after he left Detroit, just two whilst he was a Wing.

 

But whatever, I think trading for arguably the greatest goaltender of all time classes as blockbuster.

 

Also: http://sportsillustr...23/wings_clark/


Don't Toews me, bro!


#114 kipwinger

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 02:36 PM

 

Henrik Zetterberg  Pavel Datsyuk  Todd Bertuzzi

Johan Franzen  Stephen Weiss  Tomas Tatar

Gustav Nyquist  Darren Helm  Zack Kassian

Drew Miller  Steve Ott  Justin Abdelkader

 

Niklas Kronwall   Danny DeKeyser

Jonathan Ericsson  Daniel Alfredsson

Jakub Kindl  Brian Lashoff

 

Jimmy Howard

Jonas Gustavsson


 

Also: http://sportsillustr...23/wings_clark/

 

 

Lol.  You're a real card.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#115 Dabura

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 04:02 PM

Lol.  You're a real card.

 

I'm only half trolling.

 

I do these custom roster things all the time. About two a day. Today I'm thinking our top-six is looking ok if Franzen and Tatar can keep clicking together and Weiss finds his game. Our bottom-six, on the other hand...what a mess.

 

When we last won the Cup, we had an absolutely bitchin' bottom-six. Or, at least, that's how I remember it. The Grind Line was there, and so were Helm and Drake and Abdelkader and Probert and Kocur and Wendel Clark and it was awesome.

 

We need to get back to having a bitchin' bottom-six. We need to get back to rolling four very good lines. I know, I know - "No-can-do in today's NHL!" But I don't necessarily buy that. You just have to be really smart about it.

 

"And your definition of 'being really smart about it' is trading for...Zack Kassian, and...Steve Ott."

 

It's just an idea. In about four hours I'll have a different idea and I'll post that one and this one will be but a distant memory. But while we're here...

 

THE CASE FOR ZACK KASSIAN

 

I'm not ready to call Zack Kassian a bust. First of all, the guy's not a guy at all - he's a kid. Know how young this kid is? 22. He's Tatar's age. Gustav Nyquist and Joakim Andersson are 24. Justin Abdelkader is 26. Drew Miller is 29.

 

Point being, all those people who are turning on him need to chill the eff out. (But hating Brendan Smith is ok.) He's a young power-forward. He's still growing, figuring out his body, trying to find his game, and now also adjusting to a new coach and new system. And he plays for the Canucks, so you know he needs a change of scenery.

 

We've been pining for a big, young, right-handed power-forward. If we're gonna get one (via trade), it's probably gonna have to be a young guy who's disappointing his current employers, otherwise we'd have to sell the farm, and that's absolutely not going to happen.

 

http://www.theprovin...5989/story.html

 

Doesn't it just scream "Classic Holland Steal/Reclamation Project"?

 

I mean, he's not gonna be our '96-'97 Shanny. But that was pretty much a once-in-a-lifetime trade.

 

We need a big mean Canadian power-forward (with a RH shot). We need a Zack Kassian.

 

Brendan Smith for Zack Kassian, straight up.

 

THE CASE FOR STEVE OTT

 

I love Steve Ott. He could be our Kirk Maltby. He, along with Kassian, would make it harder to play against us. And he'd add some much-needed character. (We're heavy on character players yet somehow low on real character.)

 

One of Joakim Andersson/Kyle Quincey plus a late pick or two for Steve Ott.

 

THE CASE FOR DANIEL ALFREDSSON ON THE BLUE LINE

 

We need to add a high-end top-four defenseman to our blue line. This guy would, ideally, be a right-handed, puck-moving offensive-defenseman. A little bit of Lidstrom, a little bit of Rafalski. He'd have the ability to quarterback the PP, with, among other assets, an absolute rocket of a shot. He wouldn't have to be big or physical or fast; his greatest assets would be his brain ("hockey IQ") and vision. He'd be a veteran, a great leader. And he'd be Swedish.

 

Who does that kinda sound like?

 

(Worth noting: Alfie was, I believe, a defenseman at one point in his career. I think it was long, long before he hit the NHL, though. But I could be wrong.)

 

Would I rather keep Alfie up front and add Dan Girardi or P.K. Subban? Yes. But we have a solid top-three, and a solid top-three is the cap era equivalent of a solid top-four. Which is to say, any solution to our blue line's issues must come from within. Because Holland likes sitting on his hands.


Edited by Dabura, 17 November 2013 - 04:20 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#116 derblaueClaus

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 04:06 PM

I don't think it's a good move to trade for Veteran D-Man. Remember, we had/have those in White and Quincy. Moreover it's  far more valueable to us to keep our young D playing to gain some experience. If we can get a #2 D-Man go get him but otherwise I'd keep the D untouched. 

 

My lines would look like this : 

 

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi

Abdelkader - Weiss - Alfredsson

Franzen - Helm - Tatar

Miller - Andersson - Samuelsson

 

Kronwall - DeKeyser

Smith - Ericsson

Kindl - Lashoff

 

 

This D is a risk but we should take it. 


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#117 kipwinger

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 04:51 PM

 

I'm only half trolling.

 

I do these custom roster things all the time. About two a day. Today I'm thinking our top-six is looking ok if Franzen and Tatar can keep clicking together and Weiss finds his game. Our bottom-six, on the other hand...what a mess.

 

When we last won the Cup, we had an absolutely bitchin' bottom-six. Or, at least, that's how I remember it. The Grind Line was there, and so were Helm and Drake and Abdelkader and Probert and Kocur and Wendel Clark and it was awesome.

 

We need to get back to having a bitchin' bottom-six. We need to get back to rolling four very good lines. I know, I know - "No-can-do in today's NHL!" But I don't necessarily buy that. You just have to be really smart about it.

 

"And your definition of 'being really smart about it' is trading for...Zack Kassian, and...Steve Ott."

 

It's just an idea. In about four hours I'll have a different idea and I'll post that one and this one will be but a distant memory. But while we're here...

 

THE CASE FOR ZACK KASSIAN

 

I'm not ready to call Zack Kassian a bust. First of all, the guy's not a guy at all - he's a kid. Know how young this kid is? 22. He's Tatar's age. Gustav Nyquist and Joakim Andersson are 24. Justin Abdelkader is 26. Drew Miller is 29.

 

Point being, all those people who are turning on him need to chill the eff out. (But hating Brendan Smith is ok.) He's a young power-forward. He's still growing, figuring out his body, trying to find his game, and now also adjusting to a new coach and new system. And he plays for the Canucks, so you know he needs a change of scenery.

 

We've been pining for a big, young, right-handed power-forward. If we're gonna get one (via trade), it's probably gonna have to be a young guy who's disappointing his current employers, otherwise we'd have to sell the farm, and that's absolutely not going to happen.

 

http://www.theprovin...5989/story.html

 

Doesn't it just scream "Classic Holland Steal/Reclamation Project"?

 

I mean, he's not gonna be our '96-'97 Shanny. But that was pretty much a once-in-a-lifetime trade.

 

We need a big mean Canadian power-forward (with a RH shot). We need a Zack Kassian.

 

Brendan Smith for Zack Kassian, straight up.

 

THE CASE FOR STEVE OTT

 

I love Steve Ott. He could be our Kirk Maltby. He, along with Kassian, would make it harder to play against us. And he'd add some much-needed character. (We're heavy on character players yet somehow low on real character.)

 

One of Joakim Andersson/Kyle Quincey plus a late pick or two for Steve Ott.

 

THE CASE FOR DANIEL ALFREDSSON ON THE BLUE LINE

 

We need to add a high-end top-four defenseman to our blue line. This guy would, ideally, be a right-handed, puck-moving offensive-defenseman. A little bit of Lidstrom, a little bit of Rafalski. He'd have the ability to quarterback the PP, with, among other assets, an absolute rocket of a shot. He wouldn't have to be big or physical or fast; his greatest assets would be his brain ("hockey IQ") and vision. He'd be a veteran, a great leader. And he'd be Swedish.

 

Who does that kinda sound like?

 

(Worth noting: Alfie was, I believe, a defenseman at one point in his career. I think it was long, long before he hit the NHL, though. But I could be wrong.)

 

Would I rather keep Alfie up front and add Dan Girardi or P.K. Subban? Yes. But we have a solid top-three, and a solid top-three is the cap era equivalent of a solid top-four. Which is to say, any solution to our blue line's issues must come from within. Because Holland likes sitting on his hands.

 

Of your ideas, I like the addition of Ott the best.  But he makes too much to be on the fourth line, and we've already got a pretty badass third line center.  I don't like Kassian because he doesn't fit our style of play any more than he fits Vancouver's.  He'd struggle here. 

 

I don't think the problem is that our bottom six aren't tough enough, toughness has never been our hallmark, we win or die based on speed and skill.  We're struggling right now because our team lacks a lot of both.  The only trade I'd really want to see would be for at top four puck moving d-man.  Someone who could help out our transition game (which is f*cking horrible).  Dmitry Kulikov comes to mind. 

 

In terms of forwards, ideally I'd like to see us promote a couple of skilled forwards from GR and lose the dead weight.  But obviously that's not happening anytime soon.  So, all things considered here's my custom lineup.

 

Z-Dats-Bert

Alfie-Weiss-Abby

Tatar-Helm-Franzen

Jurco-Andersson-Nyquist

Cleary-Miller

 

Kronwall-Ericsson

Dekeyser-Kulikov

Kindl-Quincey/Smith

Lashoff

 

Howard

Gus

 

Never going to happen, but I can dream.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#118 joesuffP

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:12 PM

I say get rid of Babcock. Signing Dan Cleary and keeping him in the lineup is all Babcock

#119 Hockeymom1960

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:12 PM

Kassian is a real ****** bag



#120 RedWingsRox

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:40 PM

Holland, just do something!







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