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Tootoo Waived


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#121 ben_usmc

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:58 PM

 

All GMs make mistakes. Fortunately, all of the questionable 2012 contracts (sans that of Tootoo, who could be bought out if necessary) will expire this summer, as will that of Cleary.

but how the f*** do you make a mistake an entire fanbase can see before hand?


Sortof off topic but ive been checking out Tomas Jurco n the kid looks insane. Only 2 pts behind Nyquist on the griffins. Anyone have any idea when he'll crack the lineup? Next season?

Jurco was insane last year in the playoffs too.  Dude seriously had the puck following him.

 

You people would honestly rather have Tootoo on this team than Cleary?

Shows that Babcock and management believed Emmerton and Tootoo were the bottom of the totem and I would agree with them.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Weisse-Alfie
Tatar-Andersson-Nyquist
Abdelkader-Helm-Cleary

Think the forwards will look like this in a few weeks

yes.  Tootoo is a better hockey player than Cleary in every facet of the game. I am well aware of Cleary playing on the PP/PK but he is still just a blackhole of talent.  He makes anyone on his line worse. 


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#122 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:15 AM

im not surprised at all that tootoo was the odd man out ... im just annoyed that yet again were losing another player and not even getting one draft pick back in return



#123 Nev

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:40 AM

From a roster managment point of view, Tootoo is the obvious player to be waived first.

 

From a who-deserves-to-be-waived-first? point of view, clearly he isn't.

 

Won't we have to re-assign another player from GR to Toledo now as well? They already sent Frk down to the ECHL cos there was no room for him on the Griffs.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#124 kipwinger

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:42 AM

I keep coming back here hoping to see that someone has picked him up.  Not because I don't like Tootoo, but because I'd love the cap relief.


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#125 ogreslayer

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:40 AM

im not surprised at all that tootoo was the odd man out ... im just annoyed that yet again were losing another player and not even getting one draft pick back in return

 

According to Helene St. James, Kenny's been trying to trade him but no takers, not even for a draft pick.  I would think there's very little chance he'll be claimed on waivers either, not at $1.9m a season.  The only way he's going to be traded is if Kenny includes a pick and/or prospect and even then, he'll probably have to retain some of Tootoo's salary in the deal too.

 

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#126 amato

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:49 AM

Sortof off topic but ive been checking out Tomas Jurco n the kid looks insane. Only 2 pts behind Nyquist on the griffins. Anyone have any idea when he'll crack the lineup? Next season?


Yusss!! His draft year was the year my brother and I really followed the prospects and he was who we wanted based on our draft position.. we were so happy when he got selected. My guess is he'll get a chance midway thru next season as an injury call up and impress enough to stay up. Can't wait :D he's my favorite wings prospect.

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#127 VM1138

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 08:06 AM

If Holland retains some salary in a trade, does that still count against he cap?
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#128 e_prime

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 08:23 AM

 

According to Helene St. James, Kenny's been trying to trade him but no takers, not even for a draft pick.  I would think there's very little chance he'll be claimed on waivers either, not at $1.9m a season.  The only way he's going to be traded is if Kenny includes a pick and/or prospect and even then, he'll probably have to retain some of Tootoo's salary in the deal too.

 

http://www.freep.com..._medium=twitter

This is not surprising to me at all.  GMs around the league are probably aware of our roster/cap crunch and aren't going to be willing to make a trade for a guy they might have before when they can probably just grab that player up off of waivers.  Especially when it's still so early in the season and teams just aren't that desperate yet.

 

If Holland retains some salary in a trade, does that still count against he cap?

 

RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS

 

Teams can retain a percentage of a contract’s remaining cap hit, salary and bonuses in trades. The following stipulations apply:

  • No more than 50 per cent of the salary/cap hit can be retained
  • Salary/cap hit cannot be retained on more than three contracts in one season
  • The aggregate cap hits retained cannot exceed 15 per cent of the upper limit
  • A contract can be traded only twice where salary/cap hit is retained

I believe, but am not positive, that you can keep salary without keeping cap hit, but I'm not sure that such a case exists at this point. So cannot be sure. I thought that Vanek was an example of this but it looks as if Buffalo has kept a certain amount of his cap space on their books. 

 

Doing the math now to check.

 

EDIT:  After doing the math I find that there's a difference of +$684,877 when including both Pominville and Vanek's Retained Salary Transactions.  Meaning their Cap Payroll really should be: 57,642,024. If you don't include those transactions you've got a number that's way off of CapGeek's number.  So it looks as if both Salary and Cap Hit were retained on these transactions, but as I'm no Cap Expert... I can't for the life of me make up that difference.  Maybe I goofed on some number somewhere, but I have to go to work so can't double check my addition.


Edited by e_prime, 07 November 2013 - 08:37 AM.

QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#129 13dangledangle

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:20 AM

Definitely.

 

As Twitter has gotten more popular plenty of sports journalists have gotten it wrong trying to be the first to get a story out there.  McKenzie is one of a handful of people I know will get it right. 

 

 There is something to be said on the BoB's patience.  Far too often the one trying to be the "next guy" blurts the first semi-credible sounding rumour there is.


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#130 RedWang

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:29 AM

Yusss!! His draft year was the year my brother and I really followed the prospects and he was who we wanted based on our draft position.. we were so happy when he got selected. My guess is he'll get a chance midway thru next season as an injury call up and impress enough to stay up. Can't wait :D he's my favorite wings prospect.

Dude is so datsyukian. Absolutely nasty hands. Cant wait to watch him play, definitely our future star once Z and Dats retire. The fact that hes only 20 and already producing like a madman says enough. Excited for the future :)

#131 motorcitykid

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:40 AM

Mannnn whatever ... waive Cleary, Samuelsson and throw Bertuzzi in, as well. Bunch of "been there, done that" lazy, uninterested [or incapable] players who are taking roster spots away from our young guys. Kind of a joke regarding #71 & #44 ... but, kind of not too. :smh:

#132 LeftWinger

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:49 AM

Tootoo will not be bought out...Franzen will.  Franzen is already proving to be even more useless this again than he has the past 3!  Since "The Choice" he has gotten worse and worse.  I understand the Tootoo waive, because more than likely (outside of Nashville) nobody would scoop him up, but someone would ****** Franzen off of waivers.  I still think he would be a great fit in Vancouver, too bad his trade value is way LOW right now! If he cannot be moved on the Deadline or at the draft or throughout the summer, he will be bought out.

 

Too bad on Tootoo though, but I understand the roster log jam and he sees very few games.  Maybe he will go to Rapids and get some quality playing time and earn his way back up come trade deadline and playoffs!


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#133 uk_redwing

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:55 AM

I realise waiving Samuelsson won't provide any cap relief...but does anyone really care so long as he's gone?

 

I'd rather take his cap hit and have an empty space and use an emergency recall when needed.


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#134 Dabura

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:18 AM

Mannnn whatever ... waive Cleary, Samuelsson and throw Bertuzzi in, as well. Bunch of "been there, done that" lazy, uninterested [or incapable] players who are taking roster spots away from our young guys. Kind of a joke regarding #71 & #44 ... but, kind of not too. :smh:

 

Cleary and Samuelsson, yes. Bertuzzi, no.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#135 Dabura

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:29 AM

Tootoo will not be bought out...Franzen will.  Franzen is already proving to be even more useless this again than he has the past 3!  Since "The Choice" he has gotten worse and worse.  I understand the Tootoo waive, because more than likely (outside of Nashville) nobody would scoop him up, but someone would ****** Franzen off of waivers.  I still think he would be a great fit in Vancouver, too bad his trade value is way LOW right now! If he cannot be moved on the Deadline or at the draft or throughout the summer, he will be bought out.

 

Just because we all want it to happen, and it probably should happen, doesn't necessarily mean it will. (Truism, I know.) And I'm not talking about him being picked up off waivers - I'm talking about him being placed on waivers in the first place. I mean, Sammy is still with us, we brought back Cleary, and I'll use Bertuzzi now to suit my argument. ;) Holland is ultra-loyal, and I've gotta think he's got some extra motivation to keep Franzen around, because, ZOMG HOLLAND DRAFTED A PREMIER POWER FORWARD, and #Could'veBeenHossa.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#136 Dabura

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:02 AM

That said, if you're waiting for a perfect GM, then you'll still be doing so when the sun explodes. No such person exists.

 

The Tootoo signing was stupid. The Sammy signing was stupid. The Cleary signing was stupid. The Colaiacovo signing was stupid. The Weiss signing looks like it might be a bust. Alfredsson was a one-year slam dunk, and he basically came to Holland and said, "Sell me on the Wings and I'm yours" (not so different from Hossa, Holland's other "recent" slam dunk). Also, he seems ok with losing pieces for nothing, as opposed to something (I guess I'm mostly referring to Filppula here). Without Datsyuk and Zetterberg, this would be a terrible, terrible team.

 

I'm not asking for perfection, but you would expect the ZOMG BEST GM EVER to not fall flat on his face all over the place like he's been doing lately. Just getting Gustav Nyquist on this roster is proving to be a monumental challenge for him, or something he's simply not very interested in doing. (Which is fine. I mean, it's not like Nyquist is one of our best forwards or anything, and it's not like we need any help up front.)

 

Where's the creativity? Where's the urgency? Where's the rabbit from the hat? I feel like our ZOMG BEST GM EVER has been sitting on his hands for seven seasons. And for what purpose? To what end? The rise of our young prospects? The singular importance of building and promoting from within? That song and dance?

 

ZOMG BEST GM EVER though he may be, Holland seems awfully content to "just be," saying, "ZOMG SALARY CAP. MY HANDS ARE TIED," at every opportunity.

 

Yes, Ken, your hands are tied. By your butt.

 

/weekly rant


Edited by Dabura, 07 November 2013 - 11:08 AM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#137 gcom007

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:56 AM

 

The Tootoo signing was stupid. The Sammy signing was stupid. The Cleary signing was stupid. The Colaiacovo signing was stupid. The Weiss signing looks like it might be a bust. Alfredsson was a one-year slam dunk, and he basically came to Holland and said, "Sell me on the Wings and I'm yours" (not so different from Hossa, Holland's other "recent" slam dunk). Also, he seems ok with losing pieces for nothing, as opposed to something (I guess I'm mostly referring to Filppula here). Without Datsyuk and Zetterberg, this would be a terrible, terrible team.

 

I'm not asking for perfection, but you would expect the ZOMG BEST GM EVER to not fall flat on his face all over the place like he's been doing lately. Just getting Gustav Nyquist on this roster is proving to be a monumental challenge for him, or something he's simply not very interested in doing. (Which is fine. I mean, it's not like Nyquist is one of our best forwards or anything, and it's not like we need any help up front.)

 

Where's the creativity? Where's the urgency? Where's the rabbit from the hat? I feel like our ZOMG BEST GM EVER has been sitting on his hands for seven seasons. And for what purpose? To what end? The rise of our young prospects? The singular importance of building and promoting from within? That song and dance?

 

ZOMG BEST GM EVER though he may be, Holland seems awfully content to "just be," saying, "ZOMG SALARY CAP. MY HANDS ARE TIED," at every opportunity.

 

Yes, Ken, your hands are tied. By your butt.

 

/weekly rant

 

I don't doubt Holland's raw ability to be a great GM in general, but I have a sneaking suspicion that he's become too sentimental with this team. Either that or someone higher up has and is twisting his arm, though I doubt the latter. Either way, I think it's been far too long since he's lived up to his reputation. He's certainly not even close to the worst, but I think it's hard to say that he's absolutely the best right now. I think if you were to take Datsyuk and Zetterberg off this team and ask Holland to fill out the roster, the whole "we make the playoffs every year" argument would fly out the window and not return for a long time. Holland's running on fumes.

 

Just like some players need scenery changes to flourish again, I wouldn't be shocked at all if the situation were the same with Holland. I would not be shocked at all to see him build a great team if he were to leave the Wings for another club, but I don't know if we can expect him to do the same here anymore. Once Dats and Z are done, this ongoing success that he's been able to ride is going to take a devastating hit. We have good guys coming up, but we don't have one let alone two players of the caliber of Dats and Z in the system, and Holland seems incapable of landing the big names anymore unless they're over 40.


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#138 Crymson

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:11 PM

 

The Tootoo signing was stupid. The Sammy signing was stupid. The Cleary signing was stupid. The Colaiacovo signing was stupid. The Weiss signing looks like it might be a bust. Alfredsson was a one-year slam dunk, and he basically came to Holland and said, "Sell me on the Wings and I'm yours" (not so different from Hossa, Holland's other "recent" slam dunk). Also, he seems ok with losing pieces for nothing, as opposed to something (I guess I'm mostly referring to Filppula here). Without Datsyuk and Zetterberg, this would be a terrible, terrible team.

 

I can't argue that Holland's 2012 signings were awful. Weiss, however? Every hockey analyst on the planet thought it was a great signing, and we're currently 16 games into his contract. Filppula? The Wings were not about to risk losing a playoff spot in order to secure a 2nd-round draft pick. Awful as Filppula was playing, he was still a top-six forward. In the event, the Wings almost knocked out the eventual champs.

 

Guess what? Take any team's two best players and remove them, and don't replace them with anybody, and that team would probably have its huge share of problems also.

 

Holland has made his share of mistakes, without a doubt. But as I've mentioned, no GM is perfect, and there are few now who could be considered better. Feel free to name a few, if you'd like.



#139 Bryguy

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:11 PM

So he cleared, not surprised.



#140 greenrebellion

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:21 PM

Something important to keep in mind...and I'm not saying this fully justifies what Holland has done, just keep the following in mind.

 

This whole loyalty to a fault thing may have behind the scenes benefits.  The way we treat our players is well known around the league and may benefit us in the following ways:

- Cheaper contract extensions (Kronwall, Datsyuk, etc.)

- Hossa/Alfreddson signings...yes they reached out to us but did our reputation help us out here?

- DeKeyser - did our rep help us attract this guy who could've signed with any club

- Brunner - see above, yes we didn't keep him, but again we attracted a high value target.

 

If you are going to bash Holland for loyalty (and I do think he's taken it too far) at least give him some credit for the positives that may arise from it.







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