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Tootoo Waived


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#141 uk_redwing

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:26 PM

Griffins will continue to be fun to watch.


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#142 Dabura

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:54 PM

If you are going to bash Holland for loyalty (and I do think he's taken it too far) at least give him some credit for the positives that may arise from it.

 

I definitely acknowledge all of that, I just don't really see a need to talk it up, because everyone and his mom has already done that for me. If you ask 945 NHL "insiders" about Ken Holland and the Detroit Red Wings, 944 of them will make the point you're making - that those who are Red Wings want to stay Red Wings, and those who aren't Red Wings want to be Red Wings. Because it's a "family system," and because of the "winning ways." Holland is always having praise lavished on him. It's not like everyone (in real life, outside LGW) beats up on him and I'm just salting his gaping wounds, all while his good deeds go unnoticed, unappreciated.

 

And, indeed, I think our move to the East is going to make us more attractive to this epic upcoming UFA class - and I'm sure that's where Holland is planning to do some damage (the good kind, of course).


Edited by Dabura, 07 November 2013 - 12:55 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#143 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:57 PM

So he cleared, not surprised.

 

Quoting you in case people missed it in all the Hollland discussion.

 

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Wings' Jordin Tootoo clears waivers.



#144 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:02 PM

To reiterate:

 

Red Wings general manager Ken Holland says if Tootoo isn't claimed by Thursday, the team plans to keep him in Detroit.

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#145 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:05 PM

To reiterate:

 

 

That's just until they bring Ericsson back on the 15th.  Then I'm pretty sure Tootoo has to be assigned to Grand Rapids.



#146 Internet.Unknown

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:11 PM

 

The Tootoo signing was stupid. The Sammy signing was stupid. The Cleary signing was stupid. The Colaiacovo signing was stupid. The Weiss signing looks like it might be a bust. Alfredsson was a one-year slam dunk, and he basically came to Holland and said, "Sell me on the Wings and I'm yours" (not so different from Hossa, Holland's other "recent" slam dunk). Also, he seems ok with losing pieces for nothing, as opposed to something (I guess I'm mostly referring to Filppula here). Without Datsyuk and Zetterberg, this would be a terrible, terrible team.

 

I'm not asking for perfection, but you would expect the ZOMG BEST GM EVER to not fall flat on his face all over the place like he's been doing lately. Just getting Gustav Nyquist on this roster is proving to be a monumental challenge for him, or something he's simply not very interested in doing. (Which is fine. I mean, it's not like Nyquist is one of our best forwards or anything, and it's not like we need any help up front.)

 

Where's the creativity? Where's the urgency? Where's the rabbit from the hat? I feel like our ZOMG BEST GM EVER has been sitting on his hands for seven seasons. And for what purpose? To what end? The rise of our young prospects? The singular importance of building and promoting from within? That song and dance?

 

ZOMG BEST GM EVER though he may be, Holland seems awfully content to "just be," saying, "ZOMG SALARY CAP. MY HANDS ARE TIED," at every opportunity.

 

Yes, Ken, your hands are tied. By your butt.

 

/weekly rant

 

Post of the season. :clap:



#147 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:30 PM

Not surprising no takers on Tootoo. And Hollands next move is.....

#148 Mors

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:38 PM

The Cleary and Samuelsson signings really hurt at this point. I'm not going to wade into the Holland debate, but I hope that at some point Tootoo will be back on the 4th line where he belongs.



#149 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 02:07 PM

Griffins will continue to be fun to watch.

I may have to see if I can switch my Gamecenter to AHL Live.  The Griffins may be able to beat the Wings pretty soon. :ninja:


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#150 beachwing

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 02:27 PM

Im a big fan of Tootoo, would love(ed) to see what an Abby/Helm/Tootoo line could do.

Feel he was never allowed to flourish here and confident he could have.

Was hoping he would get picked up and go to a team that would utilize him and all of his skillset properly.

It was fun watxhing the glass rattle each of his shifts!

#151 frankgrimes

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 02:32 PM

Tootoo was never used probably here, either Babcock doesn't know how to play gritty guys or Kenny didn't want him to play his role so I am a bit saddened seeing him clear waivers. At some point the front office should know the identity of this team and go after players, which fit that.

 

The upcoming UFA class has one big name on it and that's a guy who most believe is Minnesotta Wild bound, sadly I think Phaneuf will re-sing with the TorontoMapleLeafs.


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#152 55fan

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:26 PM

Good.  So if no one else gets injured by the time Ericsson and Franzen are back, he'll go to GR.  If someone else gets injured or ill, he'll stay up.  Works for me.  I'll stop crying and wailing now.  I've gotten telegrams from Uganda stating that I'm scaring their children.



#153 dobbles

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:17 PM

Something important to keep in mind...and I'm not saying this fully justifies what Holland has done, just keep the following in mind.

 

This whole loyalty to a fault thing may have behind the scenes benefits.  The way we treat our players is well known around the league and may benefit us in the following ways:

- Cheaper contract extensions (Kronwall, Datsyuk, etc.)

- Hossa/Alfreddson signings...yes they reached out to us but did our reputation help us out here?

- DeKeyser - did our rep help us attract this guy who could've signed with any club

- Brunner - see above, yes we didn't keep him, but again we attracted a high value target.

 

If you are going to bash Holland for loyalty (and I do think he's taken it too far) at least give him some credit for the positives that may arise from it.

 

i think you are overvaluing hollands role in the points you mention above.

 

aside from using the cap circumvention tricks that many used for several years to keep cap hits down, there aren't really any red wings who have signed well below market value to stay. i do not believe that holland has helped keep costs down.

 

hossa and alfredsson came here to play with top quality players and in hossascase to win a cup. in 3 or 4 years when 13 and 40 have retired, who will wnat to come play here with the top talent we dont have? regardless, this point speaks to the talent we already have not hollands ability to attract free agents. both player fell into his lap, that doesnt exactly scream 'highly skilled gm' by getting them signed.

 

DD is another bad example because there was nothing holland could do to woo him. all teams were able to offer the same max entry contract. there was nothing creative or mind blowing that holland needed to do to make the deal happen. at the end of the day DD is from michigan and went to college in michigan, it once again is not a signing that should be a feather in a gms cap.

 

brunner i guess is a decent example of a nice signing. however, what is the point when they let him go a year later for nothing in return?

 

 

my point in all of this is that overall KH has had more misses than hits in recent years. i believe that he and babcocks resistance to youth is about to hamstring this team for years to come. i am really excited about so many prospects in this organization, but when they never are put n a position to succeed, then it doesnt matter how deep the prospect pool is...

 

i am not saying KH is a moron or should be fired tomorrow. i just worry that he is leading the team in the wrong direction. i also feel like his reputation is overblown and thats how he gets by so easily. 


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#154 kipwinger

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 05:34 PM

 

i think you are overvaluing hollands role in the points you mention above.

 

aside from using the cap circumvention tricks that many used for several years to keep cap hits down, there aren't really any red wings who have signed well below market value to stay. i do not believe that holland has helped keep costs down.

 

hossa and alfredsson came here to play with top quality players and in hossascase to win a cup. in 3 or 4 years when 13 and 40 have retired, who will wnat to come play here with the top talent we dont have? regardless, this point speaks to the talent we already have not hollands ability to attract free agents. both player fell into his lap, that doesnt exactly scream 'highly skilled gm' by getting them signed.

 

DD is another bad example because there was nothing holland could do to woo him. all teams were able to offer the same max entry contract. there was nothing creative or mind blowing that holland needed to do to make the deal happen. at the end of the day DD is from michigan and went to college in michigan, it once again is not a signing that should be a feather in a gms cap.

 

brunner i guess is a decent example of a nice signing. however, what is the point when they let him go a year later for nothing in return?

 

 

my point in all of this is that overall KH has had more misses than hits in recent years. i believe that he and babcocks resistance to youth is about to hamstring this team for years to come. i am really excited about so many prospects in this organization, but when they never are put n a position to succeed, then it doesnt matter how deep the prospect pool is...

 

i am not saying KH is a moron or should be fired tomorrow. i just worry that he is leading the team in the wrong direction. i also feel like his reputation is overblown and thats how he gets by so easily. 

 

There isn't any resistance to youth.  There's just resistance to the youth that you personally want to see.  Smith is young, Dekeyser is young, Andersson is young, Tatar is young, Lashoff is young.  All of them have seen significant playing time this year and last.  Mrazek will next year, and so will Nyquist.  If Nyquist were playing right now you wouldn't be saying either Babcock or Holland were resistant to youth influxes.  You're only saying this because you'd rather have Nyquist than Cleary or Sammy.  We all would.  But not playing one guy does not make an organization resistant to youth. 

 

But, but, but...Quincey is terrible and Quellet is sooooooooooooo good!  Everybody used to say the same thing about Smith.  In truth, most guys in GR need to be there another year at least, Nyquist, Mrazek, and Glendening aside. 


Edited by kipwinger, 07 November 2013 - 05:35 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#155 Dominator2005

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 05:36 PM

At this point, Kenny should be looking to move Francine... I wouldn't mind Francine for Booth (as the last has another year in his contract) and Francine will be more Francine...

 

I could see Vancouver going after Francine, he could be playing with the sister twins Sandy's


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#156 greenrebellion

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:15 PM

 

...DD is another bad example because there was nothing holland could do to woo him. all teams were able to offer the same max entry contract. there was nothing creative or mind blowing that holland needed to do to make the deal happen. at the end of the day DD is from michigan and went to college in michigan, it once again is not a signing that should be a feather in a gms cap...

 

 

 

DD is not a bad example, my whole point was that the Wings got DD outside of simply offering more money.  Why did DD choose the Wings when 29 other teams offered the exact same package.  My point is that Holland deserves some credit for the intangibles that brought a guy like DD to the Wings.



#157 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:25 PM

 

 

DD is not a bad example, my whole point was that the Wings got DD outside of simply offering more money.  Why did DD choose the Wings when 29 other teams offered the exact same package.  My point is that Holland deserves some credit for the intangibles that brought a guy like DD to the Wings.

 

I don't know.  Dekeyser was born in Detroit, played minor hockey around the Detroit area and I'm guessing grew up watching the Red Wings. 

 

The Wings won Cups when he was 7, 8, 12 and 18 years old.  That had to help the Wings lobbying efforts a lot.



#158 Son of a Wing

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:36 PM

Seems anytime this organization makes a mistake everyone piles on Holland and anytime something positive occurs its attributed to other factors.

 

We've always had more of a "braintrust" then a sole acting GM. But I guess it's easier to lay all the blame on one guy.

 

Definitely a few mistake signings but I'd still rather have the issue of too much depth rather than too little.


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#159 Dabura

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:12 PM

I have no problem giving credit where I think it's due. I believe Holland is a great GM, and arguably the best in the league. We're hugely spoiled brats who don't appreciate how good we really have it with Holland at the helm. But, at the same time, I feel it's becoming increasingly hard to say, "Ken Holland. Nuff said." Jordin Tootoo @ 1.9?


Don't Toews me, bro!


#160 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:36 PM

It's starting to feel like there should be a separate thread regarding the Wing's ongoing cap crunch, but for now this seemed like the best place.

 

Ansar Khan @AnsarKhanMLive 21s

Once Ericsson comes off LTIR next FRI, sending Tootoo to G. Rapids won't clear enough cap space for Wings. Still need to shed more salary.







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