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Cleary in, Tatar out against Caps


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#21 matthewdanna

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:19 PM

This saddens me.  Tatar had a couple bad plays/turnovers last game, but he also had a ton of energy, skated hard, and created those opportunities for Sammy that have somehow earned him another game.

 

This is bush, bush league



#22 MotorCityMadness

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:48 PM

facepalm-photo.jpg

 

 

 

That is all...


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#23 King Crane

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:54 PM

This saddens me.  Tatar had a couple bad plays/turnovers last game, but he also had a ton of energy, skated hard, and created those opportunities for Sammy that have somehow earned him another game.

 

This is bush, bush league

 

Maybe Babcock is using some weird long term logic at work here. Like every bad game a young guy has is weighed more than a veteran's bad game.

(Example, numbers made up)

Tatar:

20 games played - 5 sporadic games are bad = He is bad 25% of the time

Cleary:

2000 games played - 400 consecutive aweful games = He is bad 20% of the time

 

Maybe that's the problem! Instead judging players based on a month by month basis, they're looking at it long term. Someone get Chelios signed up! Even if he f***s up the next 1000 games, he'll still be considered better than anyone else on the team who is less than 30 years old! (In the eyes of Babcock's logic)


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#24 55fan

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:04 PM

 

Maybe Babcock is using some weird long term logic at work here. Like every bad game a young guy has is weighed more than a veteran's bad game.

(Example, numbers made up)

Tatar:

20 games played - 5 sporadic games are bad = He is bad 25% of the time

Cleary:

2000 games played - 400 consecutive aweful games = He is bad 20% of the time

 

Maybe that's the problem! Instead judging players based on a month by month basis, they're looking at it long term. Someone get Chelios signed up! Even if he f***s up the next 1000 games, he'll still be considered better than anyone else on the team who is less than 30 years old! (In the eyes of Babcock's logic)

Or maybe Babcock sees something in Cleary that we don't because we're too focused on his faults.  Maybe it's something that you can only see if you work with the guy day in and day out.

 

You know... kind of like how you can't understand why your friend dates the ugly fat chick, but then you get to know her and you find that she's a lovely, kind, gracious, caring person with a great sense of humour and her dad owns a brewery.



#25 King Crane

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:19 PM

Or maybe Babcock sees something in Cleary that we don't because we're too focused on his faults.  Maybe it's something that you can only see if you work with the guy day in and day out.

 

You know... kind of like how you can't understand why your friend dates the ugly fat chick, but then you get to know her and you find that she's a lovely, kind, gracious, caring person with a great sense of humour and her dad owns a brewery.

 

You make a good point, but I think this analogy is probably more apt:

 

You can't understand why your friend dates the ugly fat chick.  You get to know her and  you find out that her personality is also polar to your friend', and is even occasionally abusive.  She is extremely high maintenance and she is constantly guilting him into staying with her, despite the stress she brings to his life.  You confront your friend and he makes some excuses, but you read between the lines and conclude that she is really awesome at sex; the best he has ever had.  While she can never give your friend true happiness, he is content with putting up with the abuse so long as his member is getting serviced at professional levels.

MEANWHILE: A young attractive, nice, but naive woman comes along.  Your friend and her hit if off. But she was a virgin when they met and he becomes frustrated with teachering her.  Despite being a better personality match, he continues to stay with the first girl despite the long term benefits of giving this new girl attention.

----------------

 

I hope this story comes off as funny not mean, 55fan. I really think you're point is valid.  I think Babcock should be more open about his reasonings.  There is no way he doesn't hear the outcry from fans; Cleary bashing has been going on for so long.  If he can present a argument that does not involve his veteran status or statistics, I would listen. 


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#26 VM1138

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:22 PM

Cleary is a great guy. There's no doubt about that.  But Babcock can't be seeing anything we're not.  He's so consistently bad and useless, and provides nothing we need now.  Save his "grit" and heart for the playoffs.  Right now we need to ice the best team so we make playoffs.


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#27 55fan

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:25 PM

 

You make a good point, but I think this analogy is probably more apt:

 

You can't understand why your friend dates the ugly fat chick.  You get to know her and  you find out that her personality is also polar to your friend', and is even occasionally abusive.  She is extremely high maintenance and she is constantly guilting him into staying with her, despite the stress she brings to his life.  You confront your friend and he makes some excuses, but you read between the lines and conclude that she is really awesome at sex; the best he has ever had.  While she can never give your friend true happiness, he is content with putting up with the abuse so long as his member is getting serviced at professional levels.

MEANWHILE: A young attractive, nice, but naive woman comes along.  Your friend and her hit if off. But she was a virgin when they met and he becomes frustrated with teachering her.  Despite being a better personality match, he continues to stay with the first girl despite the long term benefits of giving this new girl attention.

----------------

 

I hope this story comes off as funny not mean, 55fan. I really think you're point is valid.  I think Babcock should be more open about his reasonings.  There is no way he doesn't hear the outcry from fans; Cleary bashing has been going on for so long.  If he can present a argument that does not involve his veteran status or statistics, I would listen. 

But which girl's dad owns the brewery?  That's the important thing.

 

Back last summer, I don't recall Babcock publicly saying anything about Cleary, but the players said they wanted him back.  After he was signed, Babcock talked a lot about his "leadership", which is different from just being a veteran.

 

IIRC, he was the one in charge of locker room music at one point, but then that fell to one of the younger guys.  Maybe Cleary picked better tunes.

 

There's got to be something there.  I think we all respect that he plays with heart and played injured, and that's important to acknowledge the past.  As for the present and future, it doesn't get you very far unless it's coupled with production and performance.

 

I like Cleary, but I don't think that he's the best thing for the team at this point.  If we had no one coming up, he'd be an asset.  As it is, we're waiving some people and holding back others.



#28 PumpIron

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:31 PM

I guess Tatar still hasn't earned his spot hmmm well our 3rd line just got a downgrade.

 

I don't get it, scratch a offensive minded player when we lack offense, coaching at its finest.



#29 CMatt89

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:44 PM

From a realistic standpoint, Tatar wont get his full season in til quite possibly next season. Thus, paving the way for Nyquist to not get his full season until the 2016-17 season (scary). We should trade all of our draft picks and prospects. They're like pennies. Collect them forever, until that day you're absolutely broke but still don't want to crack open that stupid coke bottle coin catcher that collects as much dust as it does pennies in the basement even if coinstar charges 10% to ever dollar. 9 dollars to every 10 is still better than the old ass Canadian quarter that is never accepted at the register. 



#30 dragonballgtz

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:56 PM

How in the hell do they expect Tatar to get better? He cannot fix his game from the press box or just practice, he needs to play to learn the NHL level game.



#31 King Crane

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:00 PM

Nyquist to not get his full season until the 2016-17 season 

 

 Please no  :no:

 

I can already see it: "Why are we playing Nyquist? He's so old and slow.  Why doesn't he just retire and let some of the young Grand Rapids guys play"

 

More likely: "Woah! When did we get Nyquist back?! I thought he playing for X team because he wasn't getting enough playing time here."


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#32 TheDetroitRedWings

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:04 PM

Totally disappointed by this... Tatar needs to be in the lineup every night (same goes for Nyquist). Still just can't fathom why we would possibly re-sign Cleary (especially with all our roster/cap issues). Ridiculous...


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#33 Dabura

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:05 PM

That third line (Cleary - Andersson - Sammy) makes me want to puke. Did the Jason Allison era Leafs teach the hockey world nothing? Big and old and slow doesn't win in the cap era. Young and speedy and skilled does.

 

Pretty soon I'm going to be consciously, actively hoping this team plummets to the bottom of the standings. And that's terrible.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#34 Mike J.

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:06 PM

Sweet Jebus. Ladies and gentleman, our worst nightmare is coming true.



#35 Son of a Wing

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:13 PM

That third line (Cleary - Andersson - Sammy) makes me want to puke. Did the Jason Allison era Leafs teach the hockey world nothing? Big and old and slow doesn't win in the cap era. Young and speedy and skilled does.

 

Pretty soon I'm going to be consciously, actively hoping this team plummets to the bottom of the standings. And that's terrible.

 

Like who the Oilers?? lol Ok I'm trolling.  But you see my point. Which successful team fits that criteria?  It's more about having the right mix.  


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#36 Dabura

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:15 PM

Remember when rooting for the Wings was a blast? Lately it feels like masochism. Which can, I guess, be a blast...but you know what I'm saying.

 

CLEARY ME HARDER, BABY

OHHH YEAH, RIGHT IN THE QUINCEY


Edited by Dabura, 14 November 2013 - 04:31 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#37 DatsyukToZetterberg

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:16 PM

Remeber when rooting for the Wings was a blast? Lately it feels like masochism. Which can, I guess, be a blast...but you know what I'm saying.
 
CLEARY ME HARDER, BABY
OHHH YEAH, RIGHT IN THE QUINCEY

I see she enjoys a good Smithing.

To your actual point, those days are feeling longer and longer ago the more times I'm forced to watch this end-to-end embarrassment.

Edited by DatsyukToZetterberg, 14 November 2013 - 04:17 PM.


#38 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:22 PM

Here's to hoping Tatar and Nyquist are up for good next season

#39 Dabura

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:30 PM

Like who the Oilers?? lol Ok I'm trolling.  But you see my point. Which successful team fits that criteria?  It's more about having the right mix.  

 

Gah, as I was typing that, I said to myself, "Oh man, y'know who's gonna have a problem with this? Son of a Wing. That son of a...Wing."

 

No, but you're right - it's always about having just the right mix. Still, if you look at, say, the Blackhawks and Penguins, how do they hurt? Generally, with great speed, skill, puck-possession, lots of young talent. Or even the Kings. I know - they're big and physical and grinding, but they're also really fast, and pretty young...and skilled....

 

The main point is, what we seem to be going for is doomed to fail. And it boggles my mind that Mike Babcock - of all people - seems to be getting off on it.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#40 brett

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:32 PM

when does the fire babcock thread start?







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