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#1 The Secret

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 09:36 AM

I don't know much about Michael Del Zotto but it looks like the Rangers could be shopping the young defenseman. The following article suggests they are looking for a defenseman capable of 19+ minutes per game in return. Would Del Zotto be an improvement over Quincey or Kindl? Maybe a Quincey + Eaves for Del Zotto?

 

Thoughts?

 

http://www.thehockey...th-the-rangers/


Edited by The Secret, 18 November 2013 - 09:36 AM.


#2 Crymson

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 09:41 AM

I don't know much about Michael Del Zotto but it looks like the Rangers could be shopping the young defenseman. The following article suggests they are looking for a defenseman capable of 19+ minutes per game in return. Would Del Zotto be an improvement over Quincey or Kindl? Maybe a Quincey + Eaves for Del Zotto?

 

Thoughts?

 

http://www.thehockey...th-the-rangers/

 

An inferior defenseman and a player no team wanted, in exchange for a younger, better defenseman? There's not the faintest chance that the Rangers would take that trade.



#3 Euro_Twins

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 09:41 AM

I don't know much about Michael Del Zotto but it looks like the Rangers could be shopping the young defenseman. The following article suggests they are looking for a defenseman capable of 19+ minutes per game in return. Would Del Zotto be an improvement over Quincey or Kindl? Maybe a Quincey + Eaves for Del Zotto?
 
Thoughts?
 
http://www.thehockey...th-the-rangers/


Quincey and eaves for del zotto? The rangers might be desperate for a change, but not stupid. No team would want Quincey to play 19+ minutes a game, nor would they think that would even close to be a fair trade, and eaves couldn't even be picked up for free. Maybe smith + kindl/ouellet/Sproul/almquist + Sammy MIGHT garner interest

#4 dirtydangles

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:02 AM

Quincey and eaves for del zotto? The rangers might be desperate for a change, but not stupid. No team would want Quincey to play 19+ minutes a game, nor would they think that would even close to be a fair trade, and eaves couldn't even be picked up for free. Maybe smith + kindl/ouellet/Sproul/almquist + Sammy MIGHT garner interest

I'd think we would move our 1st in there rather than Smith


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#5 The Secret

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:07 AM

Is he worth looking to bring in somehow? Why is he on the outs in NY if he is that good?



#6 dat's sick

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:08 AM

I'm not sure Del Zotto is what we need. Another young guy prone to defensive mistakes? I'd rather bring up Oullet or Sproul or AA.

We need either high-end talent or a steady veteran #5-7.

#7 number9

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:23 AM

Del Zotto is more of a forward than a D-man. He's got hands and a shot and has crazy fast wheels, but makes a lot of mistakes and is poor defensively.



#8 Dabura

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:35 AM

Quincey and eaves for del zotto? The rangers might be desperate for a change, but not stupid. No team would want Quincey to play 19+ minutes a game, nor would they think that would even close to be a fair trade, and eaves couldn't even be picked up for free. Maybe smith + kindl/ouellet/Sproul/almquist + Sammy MIGHT garner interest

 

Quincey-Del Zotto might be a reasonable trade. Quincey might be halfway decent on a team that doesn't play with its collective head up its collective ass every night. And Del Zotto, as good as he may be, has essentially been a bottom-pairing depth defenseman thus far. (Granted, Ericsson might be a depth defenseman on the Rangers.)

 

Sather would probably want Smith or Kindl+pick. I hate Smith, but you don't give up a guy with his potential for Michael Del Zotto. Kindl, on the other hand, I think I could live without him. And Del Zotto's an offensive-minded defenseman like Kindl, so I kinda like that trade.

 

Kronwall  DeKeyser

Ericsson  Alfredsson

Del Zotto  Lashoff

 

I am totally serious about this make-Alfredsson-a-defenseman thing.


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#9 Dabura

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:42 AM

We need either high-end talent or a steady veteran #5-7.

 

I agree with this.

 

I wouldn't mind a guy like Michal Rozsival. He's old and slow, but he kicked the crap out of us in the 'hawks series.


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#10 Son of a Wing

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 11:14 AM

 

Quincey-Del Zotto might be a reasonable trade. Quincey might be halfway decent on a team that doesn't play with its collective head up its collective ass every night. And Del Zotto, as good as he may be, has essentially been a bottom-pairing depth defenseman thus far. (Granted, Ericsson might be a depth defenseman on the Rangers.)

 

Sather would probably want Smith or Kindl+pick. I hate Smith, but you don't give up a guy with his potential for Michael Del Zotto. Kindl, on the other hand, I think I could live without him. And Del Zotto's an offensive-minded defenseman like Kindl, so I kinda like that trade.

 

Kronwall  DeKeyser

Ericsson  Alfredsson

Del Zotto  Lashoff

 

I am totally serious about this make-Alfredsson-a-defenseman thing.

 

I don't get it.  You want to make Alfredsson a defenceman and Smith a forward.  You've brought up both ideas in several threads.

 

To put it lightly...You grossly underestimate the difficulty of the transition. 


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#11 Dabura

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 11:17 AM

Is he worth looking to bring in somehow? Why is he on the outs in NY if he is that good?

 

Hasn't really lived up to potential and it looks like he's not getting along with Vigneault. Which is weird, because you'd think Vigneault's system would suit him. But he only has four points in sixteen games, and he's starting to get the healthy scratch treatment.

 

Personally, I think he's frustrated. He has skill, talent, potential - but he's a Ranger. No way is he cracking that top-four. Kid needs a change of scenery, IMHO, so I think Sather's making the right call here. (Holy crap, did I just type what I think I typed?)


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#12 Dabura

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 11:40 AM

I don't get it.  You want to make Alfredsson a defenceman and Smith a forward.  You've brought up both ideas in several threads.

 

To put it lightly...You grossly underestimate the difficulty of the transition. 

 

I played the game, and I went from D to forward. Not that that really means anything. But I'm not just pulling stuff out of my ass. I really do appreciate how difficult it can be, switching positions. I'm not trying to make light of it or, like, disrespect the game, or whatever.

 

I don't think it's so crazy to look at Smith and say he's playing the wrong position. Actually, I'm not even saying he's playing the *wrong* position, I just think he'd help this team more up front, at least in the short term (i.e. this season). He has good offensive instincts, good speed, reasonable size, and could probably play a fairly gritty game. Another Abdelkader, maybe? (Ideally, we trade him for a great forward, or a great defenseman.) (Yes, I know - "That's why you're not the GM.")

 

As for Alfie, well, I explained the gist of my reasoning in the other thread. I believe that if we're going to win the Cup this season, we'll be needing a presence on the blue line that we flat-out do not have and are not going to be able to acquire via trade...unless maybe Alfie can fill that role. If there's one guy who could, it's probably Alfie. And I say this as a casual fan of the Sens who's seen a lot of Alfie over the years. The only real reason why I think this could work is that he has experience as a defenseman (if not at the highest of levels) and, if you watch him closely, you could make the argument that he sort of thinks the game as a defenseman, e.g. skating backwards when countering a rush in the neutral zone. Obviously being a top-four defenseman in this league - never mind one who can help win a Cup - requires a good deal more than "sort of thinking the game as a defenseman," but, look, we have holes, and I'm trying to think of creative ways to fill them, since we very likely won't be trading, and our roster, as it currently exists, is not good enough to win the Cup. (IMHO.)

 

To get this back on-topic - I do think we need a very offensive-minded defenseman (like Del Zotto?), and maybe it'd be a good thing that he'd be relegated to the third pair. He can add offense, but his screw-ups would be "managed," because of his minutes. I dunno.


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#13 BadgerBob

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:10 PM

 

I played the game, and I went from D to forward. Not that that really means anything. But I'm not just pulling stuff out of my ass. I really do appreciate how difficult it can be, switching positions. I'm not trying to make light of it or, like, disrespect the game, or whatever.

 

I don't think it's so crazy to look at Smith and say he's playing the wrong position. Actually, I'm not even saying he's playing the *wrong* position, I just think he'd help this team more up front, at least in the short term (i.e. this season). He has good offensive instincts, good speed, reasonable size, and could probably play a fairly gritty game. Another Abdelkader, maybe? (Ideally, we trade him for a great forward, or a great defenseman.) (Yes, I know - "That's why you're not the GM.")

 

As for Alfie, well, I explained the gist of my reasoning in the other thread. I believe that if we're going to win the Cup this season, we'll be needing a presence on the blue line that we flat-out do not have and are not going to be able to acquire via trade...unless maybe Alfie can fill that role. If there's one guy who could, it's probably Alfie. And I say this as a casual fan of the Sens who's seen a lot of Alfie over the years. The only real reason why I think this could work is that he has experience as a defenseman (if not at the highest of levels) and, if you watch him closely, you could make the argument that he sort of thinks the game as a defenseman, e.g. skating backwards when countering a rush in the neutral zone. Obviously being a top-four defenseman in this league - never mind one who can help win a Cup - requires a good deal more than "sort of thinking the game as a defenseman," but, look, we have holes, and I'm trying to think of creative ways to fill them, since we very likely won't be trading, and our roster, as it currently exists, is not good enough to win the Cup. (IMHO.)

 

To get this back on-topic - I do think we need a very offensive-minded defenseman (like Del Zotto?), and maybe it'd be a good thing that he'd be relegated to the third pair. He can add offense, but his screw-ups would be "managed," because of his minutes. I dunno.

 

I was transitioned from defense to forward quite a bit while I was playing and I think if done right, this could be a pretty interesting experiment. At worst where does it leave us? We aren't winning any games right now as it is, so there is definitely no harm in giving it a try.



#14 Son of a Wing

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:21 PM

 

I played the game, and I went from D to forward. Not that that really means anything. But I'm not just pulling stuff out of my ass. I really do appreciate how difficult it can be, switching positions. I'm not trying to make light of it or, like, disrespect the game, or whatever.

 

 

Funny you mention that...I as well made the successful transition from defence to froward when I hit AAA.  So I'm sure we both fully understand what that entails.

 

 

 

I don't think it's so crazy to look at Smith and say he's playing the wrong position. Actually, I'm not even saying he's playing the *wrong* position, I just think he'd help this team more up front, at least in the short term (i.e. this season). He has good offensive instincts, good speed, reasonable size, and could probably play a fairly gritty game. Another Abdelkader, maybe? (Ideally, we trade him for a great forward, or a great defenseman.) (Yes, I know - "That's why you're not the GM.")

 

In regards to Smith, I just think people have to be more patient.  Let's not forget he hasn't even played a half a season let alone a full season.  Not to mention we have plenty of forward depth and lack defensive depth.

 

 

 

As for Alfie, well, I explained the gist of my reasoning in the other thread. I believe that if we're going to win the Cup this season, we'll be needing a presence on the blue line that we flat-out do not have and are not going to be able to acquire via trade...unless maybe Alfie can fill that role. If there's one guy who could, it's probably Alfie. And I say this as a casual fan of the Sens who's seen a lot of Alfie over the years. The only real reason why I think this could work is that he has experience as a defenseman (if not at the highest of levels) and, if you watch him closely, you could make the argument that he sort of thinks the game as a defenseman, e.g. skating backwards when countering a rush in the neutral zone. Obviously being a top-four defenseman in this league - never mind one who can help win a Cup - requires a good deal more than "sort of thinking the game as a defenseman," but, look, we have holes, and I'm trying to think of creative ways to fill them, since we very likely won't be trading, and our roster, as it currently exists, is not good enough to win the Cup. (IMHO.)

 

I believe going from forward to defence is more difficult than defence to forward.  I understand you're trying to be creative but if anything we need a reliable guy who can play on the penalty kill and take some of Quincey's minutes.  Not someone who going to be a a learning curve all season getting used to the positioning and in zone play.  Especially at this stage in his career. 

 

 

 

To get this back on-topic - I do think we need a very offensive-minded defenseman (like Del Zotto?), and maybe it'd be a good thing that he'd be relegated to the third pair. He can add offense, but his screw-ups would be "managed," because of his minutes. I dunno.

 

I guess at the core of it we disagree on what we need. I think the last thing we need is a middle of the pack offensive defenceman who's a liability defensively like Del Zotto.

 

We need a top 2 guy (not going to happen this season) or just a 5/6 veteran with good defensive skills.  Example Mark Stuart. 

 

We already have enough liabilities in Kindl, Smith and Quincey.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#15 Dabura

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:57 PM

I think we're both just kinda misunderstanding each other, SOAW. Which is probably my fault.

 

First of all, AAA D2F Club! Hurray! *high-five*

 

Smith - We absolutely do have to be more patient with him. But I'm not patient in these matters. Thus, I hate him and want him to be a forward or shown the door, even though he'll almost certainly be a top defenseman in this league in a few years. I don't think it'd really hurt to give him a look up front, though. I mean, we wouldn't be expecting him to turn into Milan Lucic, just add some speed and punch to our attack. I like the idea, but I've no pride in the matter. I just think, when you watch him, he looks like a forward who's recently been converted to D. He's trying to figure things out. If he wasn't trying to figure things out and was a steady, essential component of our D corps, I wouldn't even consider moving him up front. Maybe he just needs to get some "offense" out of his system? If the plan fails, then just move him back to the blue line. No harm done.

 

Alfie - As with Smith, I think it's worth shot, that's all. If it works, it could be really great for us. If it doesn't work, he goes back to being a forward. I guess it's sort of the opposite of Smith yet also kind of the same: switch him, because, why not? Smith is young and jumpy and has a lot to learn and he's got a few seasons before things really click for him...Alfie is old and wise and about as steady and reliable and experienced as it gets, and he has almost nothing new left to learn or try. So, in both cases, why not give it a shot? It'd be totally "in-house," no assets lost.

 

Ideally, of course, we land a Rafalski type. That is, an elite puck-moving offensive-defenseman who can solidify our defense and boost our offense. Del Zotto's far, far, far from that. I just like his offensive instincts.

 

The problem is we're not getting a top-four defenseman this season. The demand is through the roof, the asking price is ludicrous - it's not happening. So, fine, we just play the kids and give them valuable experience. Which is great, except Alfie came to this team for a Cup this season. And we're really burning away the time we have left with Datsyuk and Zetterberg as ultra-elite players.


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#16 Son of a Wing

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:59 PM

The problem is we're not getting a top-four defenseman this season. The demand is through the roof, the asking price is ludicrous - it's not happening. So, fine, we just play the kids and give them valuable experience. Which is great, except Alfie came to this team for a Cup this season. And we're really burning away the time we have left with Datsyuk and Zetterberg as ultra-elite players.

 

I also don't think we're going to get a top 4 guy this season.  Not so much because of the price but more because of the cap situation. I just don't see how swapping Smith and Alfie makes us a better team and don't think we can afford a trial process.

 

Either way, Alfredsson came here having confidence in the roster we have.  Also I'm sure he didn't come here just to be transitioned to a defenceman.


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Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#17 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 11:05 PM

A pilon is an improvement over Quincey. Del Zotto reminds me of Smith. Same style.

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#18 DatsyukToZetterberg

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 04:52 PM

Alfie has played forward his entire career. While him as a defenseman could work, we can't sacrifice the depth he brings to our forward group, as I don't think moving Smith to forward offsets that. We have a great deal of talent that either A) is injured (as with Alfie and Weiss) or B) isn't producing the way they should be (as with...everyone not named Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfredsson or Bertuzzi).

As far as Del Zotto goes, he's pretty much another Kindl with a little more talent. Mistake-prone and isn't providing offense this year. I've never been a huge Kindl fan, but Del Zotto probably wouldn't be too much different. We can't afford to being in MORE defenseman who are prone to brain-farts.

Edited by DatsyukToZetterberg, 19 November 2013 - 04:53 PM.


#19 dirtydangles

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 05:06 PM

What is with this fascination to have Alfie as a Dman? Makes no sense. Following the logic of "he is a vet player with good d instincts" we should have Datsyuk and Z back there too. Being a Dman is a lot about positioning around the net and using your body effectively (things alfie hasn't had to do in his extensive career). He would get destroyed back there.


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?






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