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#1 wings87

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 02:53 PM

I have this sickening feeling in the pit of my stomach that after locking up Ericsson for 4 or 5 years whatever it's going to be that Holland is going to try and resign Quincey next. With free agent contracts going up and the Wings not having a ton of cap space, I can just picture Holland saying that Quiney is the best player that we could get for the amount of cap space we had. Does anyone else have the same fear?

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#2 RedWang

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 02:54 PM

If that happens im burning Ken Holland's house to the ground. You can quote me on that.

#3 number9

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 02:58 PM

I'd be fine re-signing Q as long as it's nothing over 2

#4 rick zombo

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:00 PM

This is based on the assumption that the Wings would be looking at UFA defensemen and saying no upgrade was available?

 

The promote from within:

 

Kronwal - Ericsson

Dekeyser - Smith

Kindl - Lashoff

Almquist

 

with Backman (hopefully he'll be in GRs), Oullett, and Sproul capable of filling in short-term if there's injuries.

 

OR sign Boyle if he's available to a two year, 6M/per deal.

 

Kronwall - Ericsson

Dekeyser - Boyle

Kindl - Smith

Lashoff

 

Holland HAS to let Quincey go.


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#5 wings87

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:07 PM

This is based on the assumption that the Wings would be looking at UFA defensemen and saying no upgrade was available?
 
The promote from within:
 
Kronwal - Ericsson
Dekeyser - Smith
Kindl - Lashoff
Almquist
 
with Backman (hopefully he'll be in GRs), Oullett, and Sproul capable of filling in short-term if there's injuries.
 
OR sign Boyle if he's available to a two year, 6M/per deal.
 
Kronwall - Ericsson
Dekeyser - Boyle
Kindl - Smith
Lashoff
 
Holland HAS to let Quincey go.


Maybe it's the fear talking but I think Quincey will take a discount to stay in Detroit and holland will give him 4 years. We don't like Quincey but on the free agent market he will get 4 million for 4 or 5.

Edited by wings87, 21 November 2013 - 03:08 PM.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#6 rick zombo

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:17 PM

Maybe it's the fear talking but I think Quincey will take a discount to stay in Detroit and holland will give him 4 years. We don't like Quincey but on the free agent market he will get 4 million for 4 or 5.

 

Perhaps. Holland also has to re-sign Dekeyser.


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#7 wings87

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:20 PM

Perhaps. Holland also has to re-sign Dekeyser.


Dekeyser has to be resigned, but I don't think that impacts Quincey.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#8 kipwinger

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:25 PM

I don't get the feeling that Quincey has any special love for Detroit.  I'd imagine he walks after this season. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#9 wings87

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:28 PM

I don't get the feeling that Quincey has any special love for Detroit.  I'd imagine he walks after this season.

I hope you are right, but I get the feeling that Holland and Babcock think more of him than we do.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#10 Nevermind

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:35 PM

Dan+Girardi+Phoenix+Coyotes+v+New+York+R



#11 dirtydangles

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:35 PM

I think Holland will have to learn from this season that he can't sign guys like Q who are not top talent to any more than 1 year deals. If XO, Sproul, and Backman develop any more we will have another nyquist situation on our hands with no place in the D for them to play.


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THIS. End thread.


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#12 kipwinger

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:42 PM

I hope you are right, but I get the feeling that Holland and Babcock think more of him than we do.

 

I actually don't think he's nearly as bad as some make him out to be.  That said, he does get paid more than he's worth and I see no reason to re-sign him, any more than I see a reason for him to want to stay on this team.  Quincey's through here. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#13 Crymson

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:45 PM

I have this sickening feeling in the pit of my stomach that after locking up Ericsson for 4 or 5 years whatever it's going to be that Holland is going to try and resign Quincey next. With free agent contracts going up and the Wings not having a ton of cap space, I can just picture Holland saying that Quiney is the best player that we could get for the amount of cap space we had. Does anyone else have the same fear?

 

I have no such fear. There's not a chance that Quincey, with his nine points in 72 games as a Red Wing to go along with his mediocre defensive play, will be on this team when next season begins. Quincey was picked up as a reasonable alternative to Stuart, one who could also generate some offense. He has not panned out, and has often found himself playing on the third pairing. More, the Wings will soon have a logjam at defense.

 

 

I don't understand why you're fearing the worst. Holland isn't perfect, but he isn't incompetent either.



#14 dobbles

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:12 PM

 

I have no such fear. There's not a chance that Quincey, with his nine points in 72 games as a Red Wing to go along with his mediocre defensive play, will be on this team when next season begins. Quincey was picked up as a reasonable alternative to Stuart, one who could also generate some offense. He has not panned out, and has often found himself playing on the third pairing. More, the Wings will soon have a logjam at defense.

 

 

I don't understand why you're fearing the worst. Holland isn't perfect, but he isn't incompetent either.

 

a lot of people have fears based on what we have seen with the forwards. its been several seasons now of nyquist and tatar knocking on the door and several seasons of fans talking about which veterans are going to have expiring contracts so we can make room for the kids. yet guys like bert, sammy, and cleary are still on this team logging prime minutes while the kids have not been given legitimate shots to show what they offer.

 

so fans fearing that quincey could stay around with a terrible contract are very legitimate IMO.

 

i think bringing quincey back was a good move when it was made. i also think that quincey has underperformed terribly since coming back and would be a liability going forward. thankfully in teh time since quincey was acquired, ericsson has improved greatly and we added DD who has shown nothing but great things. i think at the time of acquisition, the team was looking at the future without lidstrom and stuart and had no idea what they would have and needed quincey to fill a top 4 spot. i hope that the D continues to improve and show that quincey is not going to be needed going forward and that we can instead look to our youth.


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#15 Crymson

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:52 PM

 

a lot of people have fears based on what we have seen with the forwards. its been several seasons now of nyquist and tatar knocking on the door and several seasons of fans talking about which veterans are going to have expiring contracts so we can make room for the kids. yet guys like bert, sammy, and cleary are still on this team logging prime minutes while the kids have not been given legitimate shots to show what they offer.

 

so fans fearing that quincey could stay around with a terrible contract are very legitimate IMO.

 

i think bringing quincey back was a good move when it was made. i also think that quincey has underperformed terribly since coming back and would be a liability going forward. thankfully in teh time since quincey was acquired, ericsson has improved greatly and we added DD who has shown nothing but great things. i think at the time of acquisition, the team was looking at the future without lidstrom and stuart and had no idea what they would have and needed quincey to fill a top 4 spot. i hope that the D continues to improve and show that quincey is not going to be needed going forward and that we can instead look to our youth.

 

Not really. Bertuzzi has been kept around because he's useful; with the exception of last season (the lion's share of which he spent on LTIR), he has been good for ~40 points per season at an affordable rate. Samuelsson was a terrible signing, but he came on during an offseason in which the Wings had lost out on Parise and Suter and nobody else was really available. Cleary? Yeah, that one sucked, but the head coach lobbied heavily for it. Holland himself seemed fine with letting Cleary walk. This is all very different from re-signing a somewhat expensive defenseman who has drastically underperformed despite having already reached the general limit of his abilities. I do not recall Holland ever having given a long-term extension to any player who came so far from meeting expectations. In sum, this hubbub is much ado about nothing.

 

It bears mention that neither Holland nor anybody else could have predicted that Quincey would do so poorly. With the exception of an injury-addled 2010-2011 season, he had always been good for ~.4ppg. Had Quincey continued at that level of production with the Wings, his defensive lapses would have been less relatively damaging. Unfortunately, his offensive talent inexplicably decided against moving with him to Detroit. Annoying for everyone, to be sure, but not predictable. 

 

Whatever the case, he sucks. Barring a very impressive season (this would necessitate a drastic turnaround, one he almost certainly isn't capable of making), he'll be gone this summer. Replacing him won't be difficult; expect Holland to sign a veteran defenseman two a one- or two-year contract while Sproul and Ouellet gain experience in GR.


Edited by Crymson, 21 November 2013 - 04:54 PM.


#16 LeftWinger

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 05:11 PM

Wings do not need Quincey....Even if they give Ericsson $4M (blech!) they still have $16M in cap space to dole out.  They will re-sign Tatar, Danny D, Ferraro and Sheahan (who I believe are both out of options.)  They have a ton of RFA's in GR other than the two mentioned and I am not sure which ones will have options left or not.  They do have cash to find a #1 defender.  I hope and believe that Mantha will get a strong look next year and could be the youngest Red Wing since "The Captain."

 

I would be fine with letting Q walk along with all the other UFA's. Keep Tatar and Nyquist here permanent.  Give Sheahan, Ferraro and Mantha the other spots up front. (of course this requires buying out another contract, which I hope and pray is Franzen.)

 

On the D you will have, Kronner, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Smith, Kindl and then the need for two more.  Lashoff may or may not be here, but that still leaves room for at least one of our kids to be here permanently.  Now if they land a #1 guy somehow then this mixes things up a bit.  I think that makes Lashoff, Smith and Kindl expendable...


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#17 dirtydangles

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 05:25 PM

Wings do not need Quincey....Even if they give Ericsson $4M (blech!) they still have $16M in cap space to dole out.  They will re-sign Tatar, Danny D, Ferraro and Sheahan (who I believe are both out of options.)  They have a ton of RFA's in GR other than the two mentioned and I am not sure which ones will have options left or not.  They do have cash to find a #1 defender.  I hope and believe that Mantha will get a strong look next year and could be the youngest Red Wing since "The Captain."

 

I would be fine with letting Q walk along with all the other UFA's. Keep Tatar and Nyquist here permanent.  Give Sheahan, Ferraro and Mantha the other spots up front. (of course this requires buying out another contract, which I hope and pray is Franzen.)

 

On the D you will have, Kronner, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Smith, Kindl and then the need for two more.  Lashoff may or may not be here, but that still leaves room for at least one of our kids to be here permanently.  Now if they land a #1 guy somehow then this mixes things up a bit.  I think that makes Lashoff, Smith and Kindl expendable...

If we could somehow move out Kindl in a package for Girardi and re-sign him I think we would be better off in terms of balance on D. Having said that - I agree completely that there is no place for Q on this team going forward considering our current D is young and we have at least 3 surefire NHL dmen coming up the pipeline in the next year or two.


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#18 wings87

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 06:03 PM

 

Not really. Bertuzzi has been kept around because he's useful; with the exception of last season (the lion's share of which he spent on LTIR), he has been good for ~40 points per season at an affordable rate. Samuelsson was a terrible signing, but he came on during an offseason in which the Wings had lost out on Parise and Suter and nobody else was really available. Cleary? Yeah, that one sucked, but the head coach lobbied heavily for it. Holland himself seemed fine with letting Cleary walk. This is all very different from re-signing a somewhat expensive defenseman who has drastically underperformed despite having already reached the general limit of his abilities. I do not recall Holland ever having given a long-term extension to any player who came so far from meeting expectations. In sum, this hubbub is much ado about nothing.

 

It bears mention that neither Holland nor anybody else could have predicted that Quincey would do so poorly. With the exception of an injury-addled 2010-2011 season, he had always been good for ~.4ppg. Had Quincey continued at that level of production with the Wings, his defensive lapses would have been less relatively damaging. Unfortunately, his offensive talent inexplicably decided against moving with him to Detroit. Annoying for everyone, to be sure, but not predictable. 

 

Whatever the case, he sucks. Barring a very impressive season (this would necessitate a drastic turnaround, one he almost certainly isn't capable of making), he'll be gone this summer. Replacing him won't be difficult; expect Holland to sign a veteran defenseman two a one- or two-year contract while Sproul and Ouellet gain experience in GR.

You made some good points but I gotta disagree with you on a couple. Signing Sammy to that awful contract just because there was nobody else doesn't make the signing any better in fact it makes it worse. Holland gave him 2 years at 6 million which was a raise from his expired contract. That money could have been saved and used this year or for an in season acquisition. And as far as Cleary goes didn't Holland offer him a 3 year deal early in free agency that Cleary declined because he wanted more money.


"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#19 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 06:03 PM

If we could somehow move out Kindl in a package for Girardi and re-sign him I think we would be better off in terms of balance on D. Having said that - I agree completely that there is no place for Q on this team going forward considering our current D is young and we have at least 3 surefire NHL dmen coming up the pipeline in the next year or two.

 

Honestly I don't think any dmen coming up can be counted on as surefire.  I hope what you say is true but it's so hard to know for sure with prospects.

 

For example Kindl was a highly touted first round pick who if I remember correctly was expected to be a top pairing guy.  Yet in his 4th NHL season, he still struggles with the same issues in the NHL as he had in the AHL.  He can play the middle pairing but the more responsibility he has the more he's exposed.

 

I would be for moving Kindl though.  For whatever reason he can't take that full step forward here.  He's not bad but they might get something for him and a change of scenery might allow him to develop more.



#20 wings87

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 06:06 PM

If we could somehow move out Kindl in a package for Girardi and re-sign him I think we would be better off in terms of balance on D. Having said that - I agree completely that there is no place for Q on this team going forward considering our current D is young and we have at least 3 surefire NHL dmen coming up the pipeline in the next year or two.

I would actually like to keep Kindle around he showed last year that he could play a role on this team. I just wish he would stop shooting straight into defenseman's legs.


"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 






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