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The Dan Cleary Hate Zone


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#81 dobbles

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:36 AM

 

 

All I can say is that Cleary is a +2 while Tootoo (small sample size I get that) is a -4.

 

I have never liked Tootoo's style,I admit that is a personal bias.

I think he is a border line Matt Cooke/Chris Simon, with a little effort either way he could be a complete Thug, or a very good checking forward.

Unfortunately his play is still in between those, and thus gets frustrating to me.

 

You are ok with a Patrick Eaves who is injured a lot and had a good year a few years ago, but Cleary's Playoffs last year are not good enough?

 

Dano was not a barn burner last year during the reg season, but come playoff time he stepped it up.

 

IMO, he is more responsible in his own end than Tootoo, and to me Eaves doesn't really get me that much more excited than Cleary.

 

(Not that this is what you are doing, but) I could have predicted the Dan Cleary for LGW whipping boy long before the season started.

 

for me it all boils down to linemates. cleary has been given tons of quality minutes with our top players, while eaves, miller, tootoo, etc are all just spare parts put wherever we need someone.

 

my opinion of watching these guys play over several seasons is that dan cleary rarely if ever makes the line he is on better. point wise he had a great playoff last year. but forgive me if bouncing pucks in off his *&# gets me excited! sure he went to the net, but so will eaves, tootoo, or anyone else.

 

i feel like eaves has always been a player that plays a strong game. and when needed he will step up into a bigger role for a short time and at least not make the line he is on look bad.

 

i guess overall, where i am coming from is that eaves has a history of being solid in that role and has done nothing to show he cant continue to be solid. conversely, cleary has just continued to look very awful out there. and while he has managed to keep a +2, he also only has 4 points even though he has the 7th most minutes played for forwards including over 24 minutes of PP time. which is actually almost as many minutes as eaves has been given total!

 

either way, thanks for the polite discussion!


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#82 Opie

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:43 AM

 

for me it all boils down to linemates. cleary has been given tons of quality minutes with our top players, while eaves, miller, tootoo, etc are all just spare parts put wherever we need someone.

 

my opinion of watching these guys play over several seasons is that dan cleary rarely if ever makes the line he is on better. point wise he had a great playoff last year. but forgive me if bouncing pucks in off his *&# gets me excited! sure he went to the net, but so will eaves, tootoo, or anyone else.

 

i feel like eaves has always been a player that plays a strong game. and when needed he will step up into a bigger role for a short time and at least not make the line he is on look bad.

 

i guess overall, where i am coming from is that eaves has a history of being solid in that role and has done nothing to show he cant continue to be solid. conversely, cleary has just continued to look very awful out there. and while he has managed to keep a +2, he also only has 4 points even though he has the 7th most minutes played for forwards including over 24 minutes of PP time. which is actually almost as many minutes as eaves has been given total!

 

either way, thanks for the polite discussion!

 

I won't argue that Cleary has been one of the Worst Wings this season, but is Sammy that much better?, Eaves?, Tootoo?

 

And I guess that is my point, I really don't see a better option, now that Nyquist and Tatar have bigger roles than he does.

 

That is why during the preseason and early season I was not supporting Cleary on this forum, but as of 12/3/13, there just are not any better options, IMO!

 

OH and I try to stay polite, but that is not always how I come off or how I post. I try not to get baited or in attacks, but I still get caught up in it!


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#83 Mors

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:37 PM

At this point I'd rather have Tootoo on the fourth line, at least I'd notice when he's on the ice. So far Cleary has done everything he can to prove that he shouldn't be signed again.



#84 The Greek

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 02:17 PM

Opie, what is the point that you're tryin to make? It's not really clear. At first, you were criticizing the cleary hate because the wings are in third. After that, you were saying that the eyeball test is not a good method for evaluating cleary. Now, you're saying there's no better option than cleary.

Are you saying we shouldn't complain, about anything, because we're in third?

Are you saying cleary is a capable hockey player?

Are you just saying it's stupid to whine about cleary because, at the moment, there are no better options?

#85 T.Low

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 03:27 PM

Cleary has more goals than Alex Burrows this season. Yay, Danny!

Edit:
Burrows, 17 games. 0 goals, 3 assists

Edited by T.Low, 03 December 2013 - 03:36 PM.


#86 Opie

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:50 PM

Opie, what is the point that you're tryin to make? It's not really clear. At first, you were criticizing the cleary hate because the wings are in third. After that, you were saying that the eyeball test is not a good method for evaluating cleary. Now, you're saying there's no better option than cleary.

Are you saying we shouldn't complain, about anything, because we're in third?

Are you saying cleary is a capable hockey player?

Are you just saying it's stupid to whine about cleary because, at the moment, there are no better options?

I still think that being three points out/in third in the conference people are overreacting to one forward. Is he the main reason for the loses, no, is he a main reason for wins, also no!

 

Yes I think Cleary is a capable 4th liner, who is probably the worst forward dressing for the Wings, and yes there is no better option on the wings IMO.

 

As far as complaining, complain all you want, but on a forum expect someone to disagree, I do, in fact I expect disagreement almost every time I open my mouth, I am married!

 

The eye ball test tangent was just that  a tangent, because I hate when people say watch the game or My eyes tell me all I need to know, in order to argue stats. Which I agree is not the only way to evaluate talent.


Edited by Opie, 03 December 2013 - 04:52 PM.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#87 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:17 AM

I have this theory that Dan Cleary is that monster from jeepers creepers, and the red wings kept him around to quell his taste for teenagers before shipping him out of town or upstairs.

And during the playoffs they set him free to engorge himself on whatever spare parts he wants.

Just saying It explains his knees, and his effectiveness last post season.

#88 wings4thecup06

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:34 AM

hmm, interesting. I have a feeling that KH, babs and co kept him around for his veteran smarts, leadership etc, banking on the fact that we had a greater amount of talent elsewhere to make up for it. I will never hate Cleary for simply what he has done for this team, but his time had come at the end of last year. But could you blame KH for re-signing him after he had a great playoff? I'm not sure. Those with cups half full probably couldn't. The guy had a great track record here in Detroit, has been an anchor in many roles for the team over the years and has given it all. I don't think any of us saw this coming quite so quickly and quite so soon. 


temp 1

 


#89 VM1138

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:45 AM

The thing that gets me is that Holland seemed to ready to waive him, but these injuries make it unnecessary. The longer he plays, and the more Babcock pushes for him (24/7, PP minutes, etc) the less likely he gets waived after all.

He doesn't cost the team the way Quincey does, but he rarely helps and forces whatever line he's on to focus on defense, which is bad for a top 6 line.

And people like to say he had a great game because he didn't fall down as much, or because he completed a 15 foot pass without losing the puck. The fact that we have to praise that highlights that he isn't good enough. He's been better, but still needs to be the odd man out.

Or at least kept to fourth line minutes. His garbage goals can help, but the mistakes he makes this season with puck possession will cost us just as much come playoffs.
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#90 Wings_Toledo

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:41 AM

I don't know if it was just HBO trying to paint him as this leader on the team or if the rest of the team actually views him in this way, but that sort of a presence doesn't hurt the locker room, at least.

 

Cleary seems to have a lot of "almost" chances offensively where he's either not quite in the right position for a play or just simply can't hit the net.  There's no doubt that he's less effective now than he was 2-4 years ago and he's frustrating to watch, but I can't hate on the guy for playing where Babcock tells him to play.



#91 Kira

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:58 AM

Hmmm....he gets teeth knocked out.  Did it knock some sense into him?  Nah, he's still here.


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#92 Rick D

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:44 PM

I don't know if it was just HBO trying to paint him as this leader on the team or if the rest of the team actually views him in this way, but that sort of a presence doesn't hurt the locker room, at least.

 

Cleary seems to have a lot of "almost" chances offensively where he's either not quite in the right position for a play or just simply can't hit the net.  There's no doubt that he's less effective now than he was 2-4 years ago and he's frustrating to watch, but I can't hate on the guy for playing where Babcock tells him to play.

 

Every time i watch a game i say if that was anyone but cleary (ABC) that would have been a goal, or that pass would have went through, or they would have whatever.

I dont hate the guy, he plays his @ss off. Its just a bummer that he cant seem to get his body to what it needs to anymore =\


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#93 Inultus

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 04:02 PM

I understand why they signed him.  He only got 1 year, at a cheaper price than other teams would have paid, and if we take the Cup this year Holland looks great.

 

But it backfired because he just isn't good enough this season, even at that price.  I think that's about it.


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#94 Mikeal

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 04:58 PM

I'll reserve my judgement on Cleary until playoffs assuming we make them.  I have to think some of the problem is just mental the way he turned up his game in the playoffs last year.



#95 darkmanx

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:04 PM

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#96 Red Crazy

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:21 PM

I'll reserve my judgement on Cleary until playoffs assuming we make them.  I have to think some of the problem is just mental the way he turned up his game in the playoffs last year.

Can we really afford to keep players because they are good playoff performers? Cleary plays to the best of the ability that he has left. However he does provide some good leadership qualities.



#97 sjr2012

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:11 PM

I'll reserve my judgement on Cleary until playoffs assuming we make them.  I have to think some of the problem is just mental the way he turned up his game in the playoffs last year.

dont we already have someone just like that on our team doesnt do anything till playoffs?

 

 

see Johan Franzen


try to get something by me i dare you

 

 

:goalie:


#98 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 12:42 AM

Im only joking, I don't actually think Dan cleary eats kids.
I do like him.
And he's been playing better as of late.

#99 joesuffP

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:16 AM

Doesn't Cleary need knee injections but doesn't use them during the regular season but does during the playoffs. I read an article last year about something like that

#100 Euro_Twins

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:56 AM

dont we already have someone just like that on our team doesnt do anything till playoffs?
 
 
see Johan Franzen


You're really going to compare franzen to Cleary? Franzen has played quite a bit better than Cleary this year and has the point totals to prove it





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