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What Does This Team Need More/Most?


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#61 Nev

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 06:57 PM

 

Ah, but that's what was so great about the '08 team - it showed that we actually could have a complete team. Or am I looking back through rose-tinted glasses? I mean, I know LGWers had issues with the team...but even so: Wasn't it a pretty complete team?

 

It was, but go back and look at how much Hudler, Filpulla, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen, Samuellson, and Cleary were on, and look at how much more they got paid on their next contract.  Look at how much (or more accurately how little) we were paying Ozzie and Hasek.  The fact that we had so many good players on cheap contracts enabled us to sign Rafalski and then Stuart.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#62 Playmaker

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 07:37 PM

 

It was, but go back and look at how much Hudler, Filpulla, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen, Samuellson, and Cleary were on, and look at how much more they got paid on their next many good players on cheap contracts enabled us to sign Rafalski and then Stuart.

2008 was such an anomaly, it's hardly even fair to compare it.  In addition to what was already mentioned, the Grind Line was near the end of their careers, and were giving "hometown" discounts.  Its not likely that you will ever see a team so good with a top 6 that were all mid to late round draft picks and were all pretty much in their prime at the time.  We had the Hakan Andersson card then. 

 

I'm just not understanding the reasoning that it was so inherently simple to replace 2 HOF defensemen and a pretty solid #3 and then saying, hey don't expect me to have any suggestions.  We had nothing of solid value to give up for a top 2 defenseman, we haven't had enough high draft picks to "groom" a star or two to have waiting in the wings in preparation, and outside of Suter, there just wasn't anyone that I'm aware of who was available as an UFA or cheap trade that was out there. 



#63 F.Michael

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 09:41 PM

We need Draper/Maltby/McCarty back in action...And Joey Kocur too.



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#64 F.Michael

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 09:55 PM

Talent, put and simple.  On the back end especially.

 

The toughness/fighting thing is a complete red herring.  Go back 5 years to when the Wings had a monster team, and the same people were making exactly the same accusations - "we need more fighters!  Our team is too soft!  We'll get murdered in the playoffs!"

 

And Howard going back to last seasons form would help too.

I agree that our #1 issue is a general depletion of talent these past few years...That said - our 3rd/4th lines can be ineffective; maybe acquiring a few players who play with that edge, and don't mind dropping the gloves can bring both some excitement, and quite possibly some production from our bottom pairings.



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#65 DeGraa55

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 09:58 PM

Just one thing? A big power forward who can score 30-40 goals. And actually finishes checks.

More then one? A pure sniper who will be top 5-10 in the league in shots on goal hopefully leading to lots of goals....

#66 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 01:48 AM

We need a physical scoring presence in our top 6. Dare I say a power forward. And no, Franzen isn't a power forward.

We need a puck moving defenseman for our top 4 on the blueline.

We need over-the-hill players like Samuelsson and Cleary gone. Guys that bust their asses (Tootoo) should be on the 4th line instead of Samuelsson. Blows myf****** mind.
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#67 Dabura

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:11 AM

An Oilers fan's thoughts on "grit":

 

 

I think people looking for “grit” are missing the forest for the trees.

 

Consider the types of plays that are praised as good “gritty” plays:

 

….Checking an opponent off the puck.
….Outmuscling an opponent for the puck.

….Taking a hit to make a good play on the puck (pass, shot, whatever).
….Digging the puck out of the corner from a scrum.
….Blocking a shot.

 

Etc.

 

What do all these kinds of plays have in common? They are plays were physicality is used to get control of the puck, move the puck, or take the puck away from the opponent.

 

And what are the kinds of physical plays that are considered “bad” grit?

 

….Taking a dumb penalty.
….Fighting for no reason.
….Leaving your defensive assignment to try and make a hit.

 

Etc.

 

The “bad” grit are the plays where physicality interferes with gaining the puck and moving the puck, or which enables the opponent to control the puck more.

 

In other words. “Grit” is the physical component of PUCK POSSESSION.

 

And puck possession is the metric that matters. The “good” grit is but a means to an end, and if you can gain that end by other means, you don’t actually need to be “gritty”.

 

 

http://www.coppernbl...5126084/on-grit

 

I like this a lot.


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#68 BadgerBob

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:20 AM

An Oilers fan's thoughts on "grit":

 

 

 

http://www.coppernbl...5126084/on-grit

 

I like this a lot.

 

Good find! Couldn't agree more! We could use a few guys like this.



#69 Bryguy

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:36 AM

Team needs a top pairing dman easily. Imagine if we landed Suter, or even Jaybo. I get that they did not want to trade their first again, since it landed us Mantha. But it stings that we did give up that first for Quincey.



#70 Dabura

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:56 AM

It was, but go back and look at how much Hudler, Filpulla, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen, Samuellson, and Cleary were on, and look at how much more they got paid on their next contract.  Look at how much (or more accurately how little) we were paying Ozzie and Hasek.  The fact that we had so many good players on cheap contracts enabled us to sign Rafalski and then Stuart.

 

I get what you're saying, and I agree. And I don't think it really goes against anything I'm saying about that team. It was a very well-built team; Holland was very smart about it. True, there was some luck involved, and, true, players wanting and getting better contracts can make things dicey. But, overall, I think Holland has just gotten away from the model he seemed to be using with that team, and the goals and expectations and motivations he was working with. This team we have now is...a mess. You wouldn't think it had been put together by the same guy who put together that '08 team.

 

Granted, it's not all entirely on the GM making bad decisions. He inherited a monstrously good machine in the 90s, and, generally, the more distant the '90s become, the harder it's probably going to be for him. Like, I was talking about The Grind Liners being on the '08 team - that was, I guess you could say, very convenient for him. I'm not saying that in a negative way. It's just, we still had some pieces left over from the '90s and the '02 Cup-winner, and that helped a lot. And now all those pieces are gone, which is gonna make things difficult, even if all your decisions are good ones.

 

But still, I do think things have slipped. Standards, expectations, the actual talent level on the roster...it's been an all-encompassing, wholesale slide.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#71 Dabura

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 12:09 PM

But, on the other hand, maybe I really am just way off-base about everything I'm saying, and all it's gonna take for us to become a top team in this league again is a great 2014 offseason (re: shedding dead weight and maybe adding some quality UFAs). I am, ultimately, open to pretty much any good line of reasoning, though I'll dig my heels in here and there (and not without good reason).


Edited by Dabura, 25 November 2013 - 12:09 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#72 Nev

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 12:44 PM

I've said before that the group of kids we've got coming through now are the best we've had since the mid 2000s when the likes of Kronwall, Franzen, Hudler and Filpulla were establishing themselves in the team, to supplement, the high end talent and veteran depth we had.

 

The question is, will Nyquist, Tatar, Sproul, Oullet, Jurco, Mantha etc be able to establish themselves as cheap bona fide NHLers before Dats, Z and Kronner are over the hill (or gone)?  Its why we need to be brave enough to feed the GR kids into the line-up as injury call ups (as we did with Oullet earlier in the season)


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#73 Yeti

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 01:33 PM



#74 Jesusberg

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 01:41 PM

For my money, it's a righty on the blueline with some really good offensive instincts. I think getting the puck up ice, tape-to-tape passing would do wonders for the team's transition game. Would also help a lot on the PP, I'm assuming. I think Sproul fits this mold, but I'd want someone a lot more complete, obviously.

I really think this team has all the tools up front, but are so many issues with "identity" because of how often the lines get shuffled/shifted. If the team could just find some chemistry and stick with it, I don't think they need to tinker with the forwards much at all. Big if.



#75 GoalieManPat

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:26 PM

What does the team need? Easy....more cowbell.



#76 Hockeymom1960

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:36 PM

What does the team need? Easy....more cowbell.

 

Well hell yeah!



#77 anthonyn66

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:52 PM

I think we need more veteran fourth liners.



#78 joshy207

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 06:24 PM

 

It was, but go back and look at how much Hudler, Filpulla, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen, Samuellson, and Cleary were on, and look at how much more they got paid on their next contract.  Look at how much (or more accurately how little) we were paying Ozzie and Hasek.  The fact that we had so many good players on cheap contracts enabled us to sign Rafalski and then Stuart.

 

This is a good point... but definitely one that's explainable.  A lot of these guys were relatively early in their careers and not making big money yet (Hudler, Filppula, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen).  Samuelsson and Cleary were castoffs.  Osgood and Hasek were nearing the end of their careers (Hasek had already retired once) and really couldn't command huge dollars despite both still being good goalies.  The first group mentioned was a result of good scouting, drafting, and development.  Not unlike what Chicago had in 2010.  Yes, they sucked for a long time, but finally got the right people in charge and started putting things together.  Then when they had to blow up their roster that summer, what did they do?  Turned right around and won again in 2013 with some of the same key guys and an almost all-new supporting cast.



#79 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 07:10 PM

Need to go all weird science and make a team full of superstars

#80 Spongewingredpants

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 05:30 AM

On this Thanksgiving weekend I am thankful that we get to see Franzen for 7 more years

 

:ninja:


My wish: A healthy roster

 

 






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